NL25 Big draw in position vs fish

Villain is 40vp ish.

Submitted by : edzwoo

PokerStars Game #22159563714: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/11/18 18:24:29 ET
Table 'Lilofee' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Electric Doc ($10.15 in chips)
Seat 2: crystalheart ($26.25 in chips)
Seat 3: JimyTheBrick ($41.70 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($25.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Vippo ($27.05 in chips)
Seat 6: RaistlinAzul ($10.80 in chips)
Seat 7: L3NGTHY ($30.20 in chips)
Seat 8: Brulaap ($22.75 in chips)
Seat 9: imph4t ($5 in chips)
Brulaap: posts small blind $0.10
imph4t: posts big blind $0.25

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
Electric Doc: folds
crystalheart: folds
JimyTheBrick: calls $0.25
Hero : raises $1 to $1.25
Vippo: folds
RaistlinAzul: folds
L3NGTHY: folds
Brulaap: folds
imph4t: folds
JimyTheBrick: calls $1

Flop (Pot : $2.85)

   
JimyTheBrick: checks
Hero : bets $1.75
JimyTheBrick: calls $1.75

Turn (Pot : $6.35)

   
JimyTheBrick: checks
Hero :

Villain has fishy stats (looks like station) and since he is c/c I think he has something like a weak ace he isn't willing to give up so I'd try to take a free card here and value bet when you hit.

check

barrel turn. hes gonna peel more then an ace there. he will peel queens and other nonsense. even if he calls turn our equity is fine and i doubt he is check shoving turn but if he calls turn i wouldnt barrel river i dont think cause he probably has an ace and isnt folding.

Mike Check, One Two, One Two

either

bet 5$

I would check. They usualy show up with like A6o

Results:

Submitted by : edzwoo

PokerStars Game #22159563714: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/11/18 18:24:29 ET
Table 'Lilofee' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Electric Doc ($10.15 in chips)
Seat 2: crystalheart ($26.25 in chips)
Seat 3: JimyTheBrick ($41.70 in chips)
Seat 4: edzwoo ($25.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Vippo ($27.05 in chips)
Seat 6: RaistlinAzul ($10.80 in chips)
Seat 7: L3NGTHY ($30.20 in chips)
Seat 8: Brulaap ($22.75 in chips)
Seat 9: imph4t ($5 in chips)
Brulaap: posts small blind $0.10
imph4t: posts big blind $0.25

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to edzwoo
Electric Doc: folds
crystalheart: folds
JimyTheBrick: calls $0.25
edzwoo : raises $1 to $1.25
Vippo: folds
RaistlinAzul: folds
L3NGTHY: folds
Brulaap: folds
imph4t: folds
JimyTheBrick: calls $1

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $2.85)

   
JimyTheBrick: checks
edzwoo : bets $1.75
JimyTheBrick: calls $1.75

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $6.35)

   
JimyTheBrick: checks
edzwoo : bets $4
JimyTheBrick: raises $4 to $8
edzwoo : calls $4

River (Pot : $22.35)

   
JimyTheBrick: checks
edzwoo : checks

Showdown
JimyTheBrick: shows (two pair, Aces and Nines)
edzwoo : mucks hand
JimyTheBrick collected $21.25 from pot

Summary
Total pot $22.35 | Rake $1.10
Board  
Seat 1: Electric Doc folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: crystalheart folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: JimyTheBrick showed and won ($21.25) with two pair, Aces and Nines
Seat 4: edzwoo mucked
Seat 5: Vippo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: RaistlinAzul folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: L3NGTHY (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Brulaap (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: imph4t (big blind) folded before Flop

"I was value betting with an unmade hand" - almost made me laugh

chk slow or chk fast but chk

with ur descript u can prob get away with betting 1.25 on flop

if he cc an A high flop oop on flop, he's going to cc a blank 9 turn. easy check.

how can u be valuebetting a hand when the range you're "valuebetting" has more equity in the pot than you? that's the dumbest thign I've heard.

He's not short stacked, it's fullring, you're clearly behind EVERYTHING even if he has something like 8's here your still roughly 30% to win why do you bet the turn?

And why are you raising K/J from EP at a FR table anyway? Seriously it's 25nl nut peddle and wait for them to spew don't do it yourself.

check

On November 20 2008 21:52 PokerDoc88 wrote: how can u be valuebetting a hand when the range you're "valuebetting" has more equity in the pot than you? that's the dumbest thign I've heard.

Sorry let me rephrase what I was trying to get it. Valuebet was definitely NOT the right word there. This is how I thought of it:

What range of hands will call my cbet with? I figured 22, 77+, any gutshot JT KJ, Qx, Ax.

Now when the turn comes, I have to choose whether to bet or check.

By firing again on the turn, I think I will now fold out 77+ (not sets of course), Qx, and gutshot draws. If he has a big hand he'll probably minraise me, and I'll have good odds to stack him on the river. If he has Ax I figure he'll call and I can stack him if I hit. Downside is if he does have a monster, now I have to put in 4 additional dollars to see the river.

If I check and hit, I can probably still stack him if he has a monster, but I lose value from Ax. If I miss, I now lose to all the hands I could have folded out.

Basically I reasoned raising or checking are both good, but I'm not sure which one is better. Checking makes me lose to hands I could have folded out and also loses value to Ax if I hit, but saves me money if I miss when he has a monster. I'm not sure which was better. When I said "valuebet" I meant I don't get full value out of Ax from checking.

Any flaw with my logic?

On November 20 2008 23:32 Cooperstown wrote: He's not short stacked, it's fullring, you're clearly behind EVERYTHING even if he has something like 8's here your still roughly 30% to win why do you bet the turn?

DO U PEOPLE KNOW WHAT SEMIBLUFFING IS HOLY SHIT. he should fold less then an ace, call with an ace and not check raise often. i think its a real easy turn bet of like 4.85

On November 21 2008 00:43 fakeshaver wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2008 23:32 Cooperstown wrote: He's not short stacked, it's fullring, you're clearly behind EVERYTHING even if he has something like 8's here your still roughly 30% to win why do you bet the turn? DO U PEOPLE KNOW WHAT SEMIBLUFFING IS HOLY SHIT. he should fold less then an ace, call with an ace and not check raise often. i think its a real easy turn bet of like 4.85

people rarely cc A high flops oop with the intention of check folding the turn -.- it doesn't matter whether he has Ax or 22

I like the idea of betting the turn for full river value against a bigger part of his range. bet a little more on turn so that you can comfortably shove river if you hit. I wouldn't like it if there was the danger of him shoving the turn or raising with made hands too often.

checkback and hit river yo

then again, your equity isn't that great... not sure what I like best but betting can't be bad

On November 21 2008 00:43 fakeshaver wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2008 23:32 Cooperstown wrote: He's not short stacked, it's fullring, you're clearly behind EVERYTHING even if he has something like 8's here your still roughly 30% to win why do you bet the turn? DO U PEOPLE KNOW WHAT SEMIBLUFFING IS HOLY SHIT. he should fold less then an ace, call with an ace and not check raise often. i think its a real easy turn bet of like 4.85

IT'S FR 25NL NOT 6MAX.........and it's 25NL a) you don't need to mix up your play bet if you have it check if you don't. We cont bet he called, he's going to call again so why build a pot when you have air? People will call down any pair here at 25nl so really what's the point putting more in the pot when your at BEST 30%? Obviously this changes a lot in 6max and higher limits, but this is neither of those things...........

I like the play

On November 21 2008 06:01 TallyHo wrote: I like the idea of betting the turn for full river value against a bigger part of his range. bet a little more on turn so that you can comfortably shove river if you hit. I wouldn't like it if there was the danger of him shoving the turn or raising with made hands too often.

Exactly what I was thinking. When I look back at this hand though, I think taking the free card was probably just better because I don't think the value from that part of the range outweigh the times I'll have to pay to see the river when he raises his monsters.

On November 21 2008 07:53 Cooperstown wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2008 00:43 fakeshaver wrote:   On November 20 2008 23:32 Cooperstown wrote: He's not short stacked, it's fullring, you're clearly behind EVERYTHING even if he has something like 8's here your still roughly 30% to win why do you bet the turn? DO U PEOPLE KNOW WHAT SEMIBLUFFING IS HOLY SHIT. he should fold less then an ace, call with an ace and not check raise often. i think its a real easy turn bet of like 4.85 IT'S FR 25NL NOT 6MAX.........and it's 25NL a) you don't need to mix up your play bet if you have it check if you don't. We cont bet he called, he's going to call again so why build a pot when you have air? People will call down any pair here at 25nl so really what's the point putting more in the pot when your at BEST 30%? Obviously this changes a lot in 6max and higher limits, but this is neither of those things...........

I think it's a mistake to put all the fish in the same category. Sure he's a 44/5 player who has no clue what he's doing, but he does peel the flop very light, which is why I put Qx and a bunch of pps in his range. Most fish are weak-tight and won't continue without a draw or top pair, so I have to disagree with being called down by any pair, and I think not being able to double barrel on some boards is weak play in general.

Well, I think checking behind or betting are both fine. We are very unlikely to be raised on turn, and we would have direct odds to call ~3.5 if he bet himself. So we can bet about as much to improve our implied odds when we hit and can bet more without overbetting river.

i didnt read the coment, but why bet KJ middle position full ring?! :s