NL400 vs *The TimDawg

http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/570829

Submitted by : JonnyCosMo

PokerStars Game #22159373148: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/11/18 18:17:35 ET
Table 'Proteus' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: TimDawg888 ($431 in chips)
Seat 2: danoo123 ($716 in chips)
Seat 3: Titleist731 ($659.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Mayimbe ($292.90 in chips)
Seat 5: JonnyCosMo ($403 in chips)
Seat 6: MonePone ($303.80 in chips)
Titleist731: posts small blind $2
Mayimbe: posts big blind $4

Holecards
Dealt to JonnyCosMo
JonnyCosMo : raises $8 to $12
MonePone: folds
TimDawg888: calls $12
danoo123: folds
Titleist731: folds
Mayimbe: calls $8

Flop (Pot : $38.00)

   
Mayimbe: checks
JonnyCosMo : checks
TimDawg888: bets $30
Mayimbe: folds
JonnyCosMo : calls $30

Turn (Pot : $98.00)

   
JonnyCosMo : checks
TimDawg888: bets $68
JonnyCosMo : calls $68

River (Pot : $234.00)

   
JonnyCosMo : checks
TimDawg888: bets $192
JonnyCosMo said, "curious if shoving here is too thin :-P"
JonnyCosMo : calls $192

"The TimDawg"

ahahaha

you prob got value towned by 98 of hearts cuz he was full of shit but got there on the river cuz he runs too good.

i think after you say "curious if shoving here is too thin :-P" you should shove

On November 18 2008 18:04 Liquid`Drone wrote: i think after you say "curious if shoving here is too thin :-P" you should shove

God, sickest chat levelling

what,no description of villain?

On November 18 2008 17:41 TimDawg wrote: "The TimDawg" ahahaha

with this reply it's pretty obvious you got owned.

c/r flop or lead imo

On November 18 2008 18:39 MezmerizePLZ wrote: c/r flop or lead imo

he has position on you, insta sitout imo

as mez said

as played raising wouldn't get a call from a worse hand, unless you're perceived as someone who raise rivers with trash to level people into folding even when they have sick good odds.....

you hand is so underrepped tho

wat a weird spot xD

On November 18 2008 19:42 Fayth wrote: as mez said as played raising wouldn't get a call from a worse hand, unless you're perceived as someone who raise rivers with trash to level people into folding even when they have sick good odds.....

I was just thinking that too, but tim has 100 left to win 700, so if tim has a set here, how can he fold?

don't like c/r flop just bet flop

On November 18 2008 21:23 [vital]Myth wrote: don't like c/r flop just bet flop

if jonnycosmo checkraised u when ur in timdawg's shoes would u give him any respect? prob not and u would never fold a draw or top pair which is why i think a c/r is good. i think the c/r is good here b/c timdawg and jc know eachother which makes it cooler, if jc was some random nit leading is far better tho

Its not about how often he will take a stab at the pot on flop but how often he bombs turns and/or rivers. No need to turn a badly played hand into selfownage.
Also Mayimbe gets a free card if TimDawg decides not to take a stab here on flop.

Fancy play syndrome at its finest.

On November 18 2008 21:32 MezmerizePLZ wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2008 21:23 [vital]Myth wrote: don't like c/r flop just bet flop if jonnycosmo checkraised u when ur in timdawg's shoes would u give him any respect? prob not and u would never fold a draw or top pair which is why i think a c/r is good. i think the c/r is good here b/c timdawg and jc know eachother which makes it cooler, if jc was some random nit leading is far better tho

since we have three kings including the Ks and timdawg is likely to raise us with a lot of the draws on this board anyway (since so many xxspades = combo draw), i don't like it as much

i mean yeah i like it if we have AA without a spade, making sooooooooo many more top pairs available as well as some more draws

also thor says you're a drunk anyway

i mean here's the hands that timdawg is gonna continue with on the flop:

any 2 spades
KQ (i don't think he calls w KJ pre)
77
55
75s
64s
86s
87s
97s
88
99


vs 77, 55, and 75s, it's irrelevant whether we lead or check/raise since the money is going in on the flop either way. vs KQ, which is extremely unlikely anyway, it's somewhat irrelevant since KQ is as likely to call off on 3 streets as it is to call check/raise and then call turn shove, maybe slightly less, making check/raise somewhat better vs KQ. vs combo-draw spades (including AXss), leading is better because when we inevitably get raised, we can 3bet and know for sure we are getting it in as a big favorite, whereas when we check/raise, we give timdawg a chance to just call and see if he hits on turn, which is what a lot of people are gonna do despite our line looking fishy, making leading better vs combo draws. vs naked flush draws or the OESDs, by check-raising, we are likely inducing a bet/fold on the flop, whereas we are either inducing a call OR a raise on the flop when we lead, making leading better vs FDs and OESDs. check/raising will also likely induce a bet/fold from middle pair hands, if they even bet the flop instead of pot controlling, whereas leading will always get at least 1 call and possibly another call on a later street, making leading superior vs middle pairs.

so the only question is whether or not timdawg is gonna bluff with air a huge % of the time after we check, which i think is doubtful since he is likely to have called our utgraise with some kinda showdownable hand in the first place, AND there's a third player to worry about

and if timdawg is so violently spewy against us on this board that we are getting the same results vs naked FDs and OESDs by check/raising, then the discussion is kinda irrelevant because both leading and check/raising are gonna win a stack roughly the same % of the time and have roughly the same EV

if they have roughly the same EV isn't it far better to have a mix of both c/r and lead?

im not arguing that c/ring is necessarily better, but never doing it is not as +EV as doing it 50% or less of the time imo

On November 18 2008 17:44 YoMeR wrote: you prob got value towned by 98 of hearts cuz he was full of shit but got there on the river cuz he runs too good.

lololol

so true

Really like the check-raise flop idea the more I think about it as a way to mix it up, since it's hard for him to believe such a line. Obv my standard line here is just leading, but I kind of wanted to switch things up a little here for once. I don't think it's garenteed that Tim raises a flush draw here btw. And I agree with YoMeR, that little fucker runs way too good.

cool hand

i hate CR flop with 3 kings, its much better with a lower set or AA

On November 18 2008 23:13 MezmerizePLZ wrote: if they have roughly the same EV isn't it far better to have a mix of both c/r and lead?

i said the only possible way that they're roughly the same EV is if timdawg is really violently spewy

all my other posts were saying (in many, many words) that leading is far superior

On November 18 2008 23:14 MezmerizePLZ wrote: im not arguing that c/ring is necessarily better, but never doing it is not as +EV as doing it 50% or less of the time imo

no offense to timdawg, but i really highly doubt this is the case in this particular hand/game

mixing it up is obv good against people who are very strong adapters in significantly tougher games

On November 19 2008 08:26 Baal wrote: i hate CR flop with 3 kings, its much better with a lower set or AA

people underestimate you baal

cosmo getting fancy vs a luck box is sick -EV imo

yomer owns thread

if your gonna go all fpsy Id much rather take mez's line vs cosmos/myth

obv as baal said its better with other hands so that tim can have a bunch of Kx type hands but id still rather c/r then c/c/c/c/c/c.... I think shoving is probably too thin

On November 19 2008 11:14 [vital]Myth wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2008 08:26 Baal wrote: i hate CR flop with 3 kings, its much better with a lower set or AA people underestimate you baal

fu sir

don't play your hand like a faggot if you don't intend on faggot shoving the river

that is all

On November 19 2008 13:57 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2008 11:14 [vital]Myth wrote:   On November 19 2008 08:26 Baal wrote: i hate CR flop with 3 kings, its much better with a lower set or AA people underestimate you baal fu sir

lol i'm being serious wtf