LP Presidential Poll - Page 7

Americans do not have fear of the word communism and socialism. The polls have shown all of that campaigning from Mccain did not help at all.

On October 31 2008 22:40 TenBagger wrote: TheHuHu, You claim "Obama's Tax Plan does not help the middle-class." That is just so wrong. In fact, it is quite ignorant and I find it hard to believe that any intelligent individual can believe that assertion. If you want to claim that Obama is "socialist", well I would disagree with the term "socialist" but I cannot say that you are absolutely wrong. If you want to claim that Obama is inexperienced, again I would disagree but I can see your point of view and I cannot completely rule out your opinion. However, claiming that Obama's tax plan does not help the middle class is 100% wrong and that is a fact. I support my view with an article on the NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/us/politics/31taxes.html and you support your view with bullshit websites that misrepresent basic facts. Listen, if you google something, you can find websites that supports the most ridiculous point of view. That fact that you found some outlier website with zero credibiltiy does nothing to support your claim. The article that you linked: http://nmorton.wordpress.com/2008/10/...-will-make-the-middle-class-pay-more/ is the most ignorant thing that I've read in quite some time. I'm quite familiar with US tax policy and I am a small business owner myself. That article claims that Obama wants to increase the marginal individual tax rate to "~51%". That is pure ignorance right there and by you believing that BS shows that you have blinders on. If care about the truth, why don't you take the time to read the actual primary sources. Try reading the link I posted http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411750_updated_candidates_summary.pdf As I mentioned to daut earlier in this thread, although I am a die hard liberal and huge Obama supporter, I can see many scenarios where it would be in one's best interest to vote for McCain. If Daut were to vote McCain, not that he would care, but I would view his vote as rational and intelligent. If a middle class voter were to vote McCain because they believe your assertion that "Obama's Tax Plan does not help the middle-class." then that is pure ignorance and you've basically been duped by the republican propoganda machine.

AOL is a misleading website? News to me.

See, the thing is, if I find articles from "credible" websites that say the same exact thing I posted earlier, you will disregard it. Why? Because it won't change your position whatsoever. So why make a rant about my sources when you very well know there are several websites with "credentials" that support that?

let's see here, your main point is that "Obama's Tax Plan does not help the middle-class."

you link an aol article to back up your point

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/10/14/obamas-tax-plan-misleading/

Have you even read the article? The main point of the article is the following:

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review's editorial focuses on Sen. Obama's claim that he will cut taxes for 95% of Americans, echoing an analysis performed by the Washington Times...

...Sen. Obama's economics plan centers on his claim that he'll cut taxes for 95 percent of American workers. Left unsaid is that to accomplish this, he'll have to levy a massive tax increase against the other 5 percent who already pay nearly 60 percent of all taxes.

You do realize that the above point SUPPORTS the claim that Obama's tax plan HELPS the middle class.

Now that I've read your stuff, why don't you read the article that I posted. Why don't you read some primary sources about obama's tax plan such as the brookings report that I linked or obama's own website where he outlines his policy in depth. Maybe then we can carry on an intelligent conversation.

seriously, if you dislike obama, that's fine. there are many ways to attack him. but saying that his tax policy hurts the middle class is so obviously false.

if you say that obama will suck as commander in chief, I can disagree but I can't disprove it. But when you say "Obama's Tax Plan does not help the middle-class." that is something I can disprove. For gods sake even your own source that you linked basically said that.

To All LP members from around the world,

I present TheHuHu as exhibit A of the success of the republican propoganda machine and how they were able to convince someone who read the following:

Sen. Obama's economics plan centers on his claim that he'll cut taxes for 95 percent of American workers. Left unsaid is that to accomplish this, he'll have to levy a massive tax increase against the other 5 percent who already pay nearly 60 percent of all taxes.

To interpret that as hurting the middle class.

Boggles my mind.

ah yes,

thanks
I rest my case


time for me to go to the renaissance festival
hf gg

On October 31 2008 23:46 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On October 31 2008 22:43 TenBagger wrote:   On October 31 2008 22:29 k2o4 wrote: Have you missed all of tenbaggers posts? I'll let him deal with your articles cause he'll probably give you an essay with in depth tax analysis. The attack that Obama's plan will make the middle class pay more is ridiculous. He wants the RICH TO PAY THE TAXES THEY PAID DURING CLINTON - THEY DID JUST FINE THEN! And he's not raising taxes, he's letting a temporary tax cut EXPIRE! He's not redistributing wealth, he's making a fairer tax system that will also help get the economy going. well, just because I support obama does not mean that I can deny the truth. Obama is redistributing wealth. Of course they can't use that term because this country is full of HuHu's that have this ridiculous fear of socialism. But any income tax is a redistribution of wealth and the more progressive it is, the more redistribution occurs. He is letting a temporary tax cut expire and the fact is that bush has taken it so far to one extreme, that even with obama's plan, the US tax code is still regressive by historical and global standards. True, this fear of socialism is getting rediculous. Many americans think socialism is the same as communism, and they were taught to fear that during the cold war era. But infact you have many "socialist" aspects over there already, socialism like practised in europe is not real socialism but a mixture of socilism and capitalism. Communist would call us capitalists and capitalist would call us communists. Americans have socialism already, they are just not as socialist as we are over here, I wish they could drop that stupid fear of the word. Some are saying socialism is like stealing money from the rich, I would like to know where does the money/wealth come from in the first place?

part of the reason for the american fear of socialism is that american dictionaries pretty much equate socialism to communism, while british english dictionaries have a much more sensible and correct understanding of the word. so well, to americans socialism really does equate communism, while to europeans it is closer to equating social-democracy. (you certainly have europeans with a similar irrational fear of the word tho, its just not deeply ingrained in our culture.)

On October 31 2008 23:19 tloapc wrote: why would I bother finding links, refinding articles and videos, or spend any energy digging up info that I've seen/read or heard for u when it's obvious ur dead set on Obama? besides the 98% chance of me in the end leveling myself in ur concrete world, what would be achieved? I mean even here in this quote alone ur all but saying your mind is totally and completely made up, and not to tell u anything because you already know the answer etc like u and ORiley said, the Obama camp has campaigned this near perfection; it's very easy right now to keep Obama in a good light no matter the argument - that should be scary and set off warning bells in itself so...if to u the grass is the most green on ur side then there's really no point is there your not going to take value in anything that's said on that opposite side, the Republican side (which again I am not on) ...simply put you are going to see what you want to see no matter how much sifting and pointing I do I feel I would have an easier time trying to convince Bill Gates to invest in Mac or Linux than to try and convince u or some of the Obama lovers here that what ur swallowing is bad and to vote third party or McCain seems really pointless for me to do either so if ur needing to know, and want to know something bad enough, u'll find it u'll one day realize ur eating bs w/ a smile on ur face but u know, in fact I constantly wonder why I even bother with anything here at all as it seems all I do is offend or am written off/ignored right off the bat as an idiot (maybe cuz the stakes I play?) thank god I've biiiiiiiiiiiig shoulders ^^ hmm I used to lurk...maybe I ramble here for the lurkers dunno all I do know is actions speak louder than words and all ur actions I've seen here k2o4 say ur deadset on ur homeboy Obama! god we all just know he is here for u heh ok live and learn if the *federal government providing everything* is really what u want deep down k2o4, then u will never have the wake up call that will surely come to u one day otherwise and I'm happy for u, but me and u arguing any other details is futile --- TenBagger plz don't take offense to this when I ask you have u ever been outside the US for longer than 2 months in one time?

Your crazy rambling answer there was basically the same as this guys:



Anyway, I'm totally glad to listen to the other side. But when people say that Palin is "obviously more experienced than Obama" I'm blown away cause ALL THE FACTS say that she isn't. I think you need a very slanted POV to believe that the facts add up to Palin being more experienced. Let's stay on the point here.

Pretty much every single one of the my best friends is a Republican who supported bush. I've listened to the other side non-stop and I am still friends with them cause they know how to accept facts and I do the same. In terms of world view we are very different. So if you want to give me some FACTS I'll gladly accept them. Give me a logical argument, not a bunch of rambling rants.

Lastly, I do NOT want the Federal Government providing everything, and OBAMA DOES NOT WANT THAT EITHER. This is a reason I like him. I do want the Federal Govt providing SOME THINGS though. I like the idea of being a citizen as being in a club. You pay membership dues and you get benefits. One of those benefits should be high quality education, especially since a well educated generation of youth will lead to a more prosperous country overall and help EVERYBODY. I definitely don't want the Govt to do everything for us, but I'm fine with it doing some things. We've been a mix of capitalism and socialism for a long time and it has worked very well. Social security and medicare are 2 of the most popular govt programs, and they're "socialist" in nature.

This idea that Obama is going to create some huge govt that will take over everything is another republican scare tactic and it's sad to see people stupid enough to fall for it. I agree that he will increase govt a bit, but honestly it's not very much at all, and it's in very key important areas that we SHOULD have more govt involvement.

you know theres a porno out there called who's nailin' pailin?

wow, the clip in k2o4s posts was one of the funniest things ive seen in the last few months

also i will never understand the way of thinking of all those "omg socialism!" americans.

if you think that rich people paying more is bad your a egoistic idiot. if you think that playing an minimal amount of taxes more is isnt worth helping the overall state of your country and the people that had less luck then you in life then please think about what a egoistic bastard you are.


its like " oh look, candidate no1 just gave me 500$! thats great for me! i vote him! maybe he wants to kill evry homeless and eats babies but that doesnt matter for me since i'm not homeless and hes not eating my baby! "

jfyi :
i live in europe. i pay taxes and from that every single one here gets health care for "free" whenever he needs. if paying 3% (random number) more taxes saves peoples lifes i am glad and proud to pay it.

I agree penner that you should obviously vote for the guy who will do a good job, not for the guy who happens to favor yourself

voting is something you do for ideological reasons anyway, your vote doesn't really have any impact you just do it because it's right

for that reason daut i can't believe that you would keep yourself from voting just because you'll lose 100k or whatever the amount is if mccain wins.. if you go out there and vote obama, and it sounds like that's what you really want to do, then the -ev of that is negligable...

LMAO. Some people in this thread are more ignorant and out of touch with reality than wobbly!

@k204 and TenBagger: Dont waste your time arguing with these people. They CLEARLY have no idea what it going on. And they dont listen/think. They will NEVER change their mind. They close their eyes to all the evidence you represent to them and this is clear by them not reading/listening anything you are posting in response.
Let them go on their own way. Many people dont learn by listening and looking. They have to get fucked to learn. Thats how it works. Look at Neilly and his BR managment.

i vote floofy

its gonna be super scary if the whole U.S. office is a bunch of dumbass democrats...obama is gonna wreck US...and i love how you guys are all bashing palin...how much more experience about poltics does Obama have...rofl

On November 02 2008 15:37 p-halt wrote: its gonna be super scary if the whole U.S. office is a bunch of dumbass democrats...obama is gonna wreck US...and i love how you guys are all bashing palin...how much more experience about poltics does Obama have...rofl

Main reason I bash Pallin are the same exact reason I like Obama and It has NOTHING to do with their experience.
Pallin thinks abbortion should be illigal even if it dangours the life of the mother.
Pallin thinks humans has ZERO effect on Global warming
Pallin can not name a single paper.
Palling thinks gay marrage should be unconstitutional!
Palin thinks she can see russia from Alaska.
Paling doesnt know the name of the PM of Canada.
Palin...............................................

These statements are all pointing to one fact------> Palling is very very dumb and ignorant!
She is only surviving by spreading random bullshits about non-related stuff and confusing people who doesnt have half a brain to think(which sadly represents more than %50 of the population.) I see people like Pallin who are HUGE suck ups in real life and in school. They usually ride on that group of people who know alot but dont give a damn about the managment and politics. She is exactly representing the people who go and sleep with the TA to pass the course instead of getting an education.

On the other hand Obama is a person who clearly thinks before acting. Who is smart and knows what and when to talk and when to shut up. He tells people stuff they want to hear to get elected. He has good education and he is very intelligence. Im not saying the guy is a saint. Im just saying the guy is super intelligence.

in very short.
I prefer Obama over Pallin because Obama is smarter than Pallin. And he is well educated.
On the other hand Pallin is very very below average intelligence and she is very ignorant.

Im comming from a country who has retards in power. And trust me when you want to elect someone into power the number one criteria should be inteligence. You want someone open minded who can think and analyze the issues. You don not want someone who refer to Bibel for make decisions in the 21 century. You DO NOT want someone who has his mind already setup(by lessons in some 2000 year old book or by advices from some high school graduate) when a new issues surface in the world.

Do you guys really belive than if someone has to make life/death decision for you you would trust Palin over Obama?? Cause ultimatly this is what president does. Not maybe for exactly you but for millions of people out there.

I wouldnt be suprised if you say yes. After finding out how ignorant some high stakes players are(wobbly). I would be suprised to know if you guys are equally ignorant(probably even less than him)

ROFL capaneo way to make a fool out of yourself... you can actually see Russia from Alaska in their closest spot duh. her response was hillarious because its stupidly irrelevant, it would be like if the Major of Mexico, Sonora says that he can see the US from there, and that somehow turns him into a guru of foreign relations.

On November 02 2008 16:44 Baal wrote: ROFL capaneo way to make a fool out of yourself... you can actually see Russia from Alaska in their closest spot duh. her response was hillarious because its stupidly irrelevant, it would be like if the Major of Mexico, Sonora says that he can see the US from there, and that somehow turns him into a guru of foreign relations.

Why you are trying to troll anyway? You know that I know that. As a matter of fact she can not even SEE Russia from anywhere she has ever been in Alaska. Try to make fun of ignorant people like Wobley and Maynard if you have too much time at your hand!

But the whole point is that she is retarded. And Obama is not. And no matter what they ask her of any matter. Just saying that you can see Russia from Alaska is just retarded. Beause even if you can see russia you will probably see some gray mountain in the background that is Russia. So if you see a picture of Kremlin on the internet you are probably the most qualified foreign affair consultant in her book.

But im not even talking about that. Im saying she is retarded and very very ignorant and should not be trusted to manage a big sum of assests and lives.
Who cares if the next door gays are gonna get married.
Who really gives a damn if the pregnant girl two blocks away get an abbortion. I dont even give a damn if the polar bears extinct or not(this one is close for me since I like the bears!)
What matters is that when I go out how many non-educated retards I have to talk to when I wanna do something?
How many retards out there should I convince to do something?
OBV im all for sending all the poor people to college on my expense as long as I can afford it. It will make my life easier at the end.
Ofcourse I want poor people to have enough money to go and spend it in bars and get laid and gamble it around. And fuck yeah I will pay for it. As long as I know that my child is not going to get kidnapped by some jobless unwealthy idiot.
This is called civilization. People are living together and ones problem is everyones problem.

--- Nuked ---

No point arguing with people who do not meet the minimum requirement to engage in an intellectual conversation.