On October 30 2008 16:42 SakiSaki wrote:
The fact that if the republicans win there is a good chance Sarah fucking Palin, a completely clueless, closeminded and unqualified hockey mom could become president in one of the most powerful nations in the world should be argument enough to not vote republican.
yeah this is like horrifyingly scary to me
if this is like so totally horrifyingly scary, and u vote Obama, I'm just gonna laugh at u + Show Spoiler +
and then I'm actually gonna be sad
because sorry SakiSaki, dunno what u read or watch to draw ur opinions of ppl, but to me ur post actually makes u seem the one who is clueless and closeminded and just spouting without really thinking
I mean, u see Palin and one of the main things u think is hockey mom? LOL man someone bamboozled u good
anyone with any common sense should know there are two sides to every coin
and so often the information that u read or hear is so totally slanted one way or the other that its hard to see whats actually happened which is usually a fine line in between
but back on track, if u really compare track records and history etc to see who out of the main two P.O.S. groups is closest to being unqualified, it would easily be Obama
I mean, if I had the time and energy, I could go more in depth on this amongst plenty of other issues and debate with all you Obama ninjas here that I didn't think were totally one sided, but hey, instead I'll just let the man speak my point for himself
it's only a minute long
We Americans are totally pulling a big one on ourselves
4 years later he is a messiah to some -.-a
hello? almost wish I was a foreigner so I could just drink and laugh my fucking ass off as I watch Americans slowly kill what made them different and better
but u know, I'm starting to think all this is supposed to happen
u never miss something until its gone
ps
I wish every American (or really person for that matter) was forced growing up to read up on Ben Franklin
start at some of his quotes
pss
srry, taxes and $$ are not the single most important deciding factor in my vote so I'm rarely gonna ever be to long winded here about that
I'll just say Ron Paul
The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action.
On October 31 2008 19:37 tloapc wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 31 2008 14:49 TimDawg wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 30 2008 16:42 SakiSaki wrote:
wish I was a foreigner so I could just drink and laugh my fucking ass off as I watch Americans slowly kill what made them different and better
but u know, I'm starting to think all this is supposed to happen
On October 30 2008 16:42 SakiSaki wrote:
The fact that if the republicans win there is a good chance Sarah fucking Palin, a completely clueless, closeminded and unqualified hockey mom could become president in one of the most powerful nations in the world should be argument enough to not vote republican.
yeah this is like horrifyingly scary to me
if this is like so totally horrifyingly scary, and u vote Obama, I'm just gonna laugh at u + Show Spoiler +
and then I'm actually gonna be sad
because sorry SakiSaki, dunno what u read or watch to draw ur opinions of ppl, but to me ur post actually makes u seem the one who is clueless and closeminded and just spouting without really thinking
I mean, u see Palin and one of the main things u think is hockey mom? LOL man someone bamboozled u good
anyone with any common sense should know there are two sides to every coin
and so often the information that u read or hear is so totally slanted one way or the other that its hard to see whats actually happened which is usually a fine line in between
but back on track, if u really compare track records and history etc to see who out of the main two P.O.S. groups is closest to being unqualified, it would easily be Obama
I mean, if I had the time and energy, I could go more in depth on this amongst plenty of other issues and debate with all you Obama ninjas here that I didn't think were totally one sided, but hey, instead I'll just let the man speak my point for himself
it's only a minute long
We Americans are totally pulling a big one on ourselves
4 years later he is a messiah to some -.-a
hello? almost wish I was a foreigner so I could just drink and laugh my fucking ass off as I watch Americans slowly kill what made them different and better
but u know, I'm starting to think all this is supposed to happen
u never miss something until its gone
ps
I wish every American (or really person for that matter) was forced growing up to read up on Ben Franklin
start at some of his quotes
pss
srry, taxes and $$ are not the single most important deciding factor in my vote so I'm rarely gonna ever be to long winded here about that
I'll just say Ron Paul
at :28 seconds obama completely vanished from the room
tell me ur talkin about something other than the confetti?
The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action.
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TenBagger United States. Oct 31 2008 20:49. Posts 2018
On October 31 2008 19:36 TenBagger wrote:
I reread the whole report again in depth and they its amazing how incredibly vague they are on the stump speech assumption. I mean, we have a thorough written outline of their tax policies and if you are gonna make a whole new set of calculations that differ from it, at least tell us what variables you're changing.
So as a footnote in page 1 they state:
1. See text for description of provisions included in campaign advisors and stump speech versions of candidates' tax plans.
Now in the body of the text, the only mention of any difference between the stump speech calculations and the official campaign policy calculations are the following:
Obama has proposed raising the payroll tax for those earning over $250,000. Again, he has not provided details, but TPC assumes this would be a 2 percent income tax surcharge on adjusted gross income above $250,000 for couples and $200,000 for others and an additional 2 percent payroll tax for employers on each worker’s earnings above those levels. Such a plan would increase taxes on high-income workers by nearly $400 billion over a decade.
Ok, so Obama has mentioned the possibility of raising payroll tax on those earning over 250K, but has given zero details and the TPC takes it upon themselves to assume that the figure will be 2%. Where did they get this number from? The fact that they would make these calculations and pass them off as fact when it is based on something that Obama never said that he would definitely do and to arbitrarily assign a number for the increase is flat out ridiculous.
Now at the bottom of page 3, they state the following:
The new TPC analysis updates earlier sets of estimates released in June and July 2008. The revised estimates reflect changes in each candidate’s plans, additional details released by the campaigns (particularly that by the Obama campaign on August 14, 2008), and modifications to our tax modeling procedures.
And they end up with a few tables such as this:
"Senator Obama's Tax Proposals of August 14, 2008: Impact on Tax Revenue, 2009-18 Economic Advisers' Version (No Payroll Surtax)"
Where they give projections based upon the the campaign's official policy and without their dubious projected payroll surtax. But low and behold, they give no concrete data that about their so called projections based on "stump speeches" that they so promised on page 1.
This to me is a classic example that is mentioned by Noam Chomsky in his book "Manufacturing Consent". The so called "liberal" Brookings Institute think tank produces two sets of projections. One based on actual published tax policy and the other based on god knows what since they never bother to detail it. Then the Washington Post has a choice to publish a graphic, one based on real numbers and the other based on some arbitrary set of assumptions by the author that no one knows about. Guess which one they publish?
And all the readers of that Washington Post article, obviously do not bother to do the research that I just did and read the footnotes in the actual report, they come to believe that Obama's tax plan will raise their taxes by 11.5% of their gross annual income.
I think every high stakes US player should be very interested in the change in tax code and I invite them to read the primary source
We should be having intelligent conversation on topics such as this one rather than ignorant garbage ramblings by certain US/Pitcairn folks that shall remain nameless.
On October 30 2008 17:54 Liquid`Drone wrote:
rofl its so hilarious when people claim obama is socialist
Universal health care and the redistribution of wealth. Go figure.
His proposal isn't universal health care - how many times does this have to be repeated before people learn it? He wants to add a 3rd option. Right now you can get health care via your employer or privately on your own. THAT WON'T CHANGE UNDER OBAMA! You will keep what you have now, IF YOU WANT TO! All he will do is try to lower the rates u currently pay AND add a 3rd option for how to get health care. You will now have a choice of getting the same govt plan that members of congress get.
That's it. Not socialist.
As far as redistribution of wealth, TAXES ARE REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH! Even McCain was ok with it till he started this campaign:
All Obama is proposing is to KEEP CUTTING TAXES for the middle class while LETTING THE BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE. That is not wealth distribution. When we gave the rich bigger tax cuts than the middle class republicans thought it was just fine, but when we give the middle class a bigger tax cut than for the rich republicans freak out and call it redistribution. It's maddening.
On October 31 2008 19:37 tloapc wrote:
if u really compare track records and history etc to see who out of the main two P.O.S. groups is closest to being unqualified, it would easily be Obama
I mean, if I had the time and energy, I could go more in depth on this amongst plenty of other issues
Do you really, truly, sincerely believe that Palin has more experience than Obama and is better qualified to be president? Because she was on the city council and mayor of a 7,000 person town and governor of 600,000 person state for 2 yrs? And don't give me the "she has executive experience cause she was a governor" argument cause then you're saying she's more qualified than McCain and she should be the top of the ticket. I also don't buy that "she took on her own corrupt party so she's a reformer" BS - Cause the large amount of ethic complaints she's had including being found guilty abusing her authority in troopergate proves she's no reformer, and she only took on her own party cause she saw a chance to use their corruption against them and get herself ahead to a higher position in govt.
Obama has 3 years as an amazing community organizer, first black president of the Harvard law review, 12 years as a constitutional law professor, 8 years as a state senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, 4 years in the US senate representing 13 million people and sponsoring 131 bills, and while in the senate he served on the foreign affairs, environmental and public works, and veterans affairs committees. On top of that he's run the largest scale campaign in history with the most amazing ground game ever seen, and the most disciplined, focused and organized campaign ever, that even Bill Oreilly called the best campaign he'd ever seen. He's shown leadership, judgment, skill, an ability to choose the best advisers, and an amazing talent of inspiring people to actually take action!
I really don't see how someone can truly believe that Palin has more experience and is more qualified than Obama to be president, unless they're without all the facts or just an idiot.
tloap, sure she is just not a hockey mom, she is also from alaska, the great state with boundaries to the foreign powerful nation of russia, and as well Canada!
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fakeshaver United States. Oct 31 2008 22:45. Posts 1313
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fakeshaver United States. Oct 31 2008 22:47. Posts 1313
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TheHuHu3 United States. Oct 31 2008 23:10. Posts 5544
On October 30 2008 17:54 Liquid`Drone wrote:
rofl its so hilarious when people claim obama is socialist
Universal health care and the redistribution of wealth. Go figure.
His proposal isn't universal health care - how many times does this have to be repeated before people learn it? He wants to add a 3rd option. Right now you can get health care via your employer or privately on your own. THAT WON'T CHANGE UNDER OBAMA! You will keep what you have now, IF YOU WANT TO! All he will do is try to lower the rates u currently pay AND add a 3rd option for how to get health care. You will now have a choice of getting the same govt plan that members of congress get.
That's it. Not socialist.
As far as redistribution of wealth, TAXES ARE REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH! Even McCain was ok with it till he started this campaign:
All Obama is proposing is to KEEP CUTTING TAXES for the middle class while LETTING THE BUSH TAX CUTS EXPIRE. That is not wealth distribution. When we gave the rich bigger tax cuts than the middle class republicans thought it was just fine, but when we give the middle class a bigger tax cut than for the rich republicans freak out and call it redistribution. It's maddening.
On October 31 2008 19:37 tloapc wrote:
if u really compare track records and history etc to see who out of the main two P.O.S. groups is closest to being unqualified, it would easily be Obama
I mean, if I had the time and energy, I could go more in depth on this amongst plenty of other issues
Do you really, truly, sincerely believe that Palin has more experience than Obama and is better qualified to be president? Because she was on the city council and mayor of a 7,000 person town and governor of 600,000 person state for 2 yrs? And don't give me the "she has executive experience cause she was a governor" argument cause then you're saying she's more qualified than McCain and she should be the top of the ticket. I also don't buy that "she took on her own corrupt party so she's a reformer" BS - Cause the large amount of ethic complaints she's had including being found guilty abusing her authority in troopergate proves she's no reformer, and she only took on her own party cause she saw a chance to use their corruption against them and get herself ahead to a higher position in govt.
Obama has 3 years as an amazing community organizer, first black president of the Harvard law review, 12 years as a constitutional law professor, 8 years as a state senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, 4 years in the US senate representing 13 million people and sponsoring 131 bills, and while in the senate he served on the foreign affairs, environmental and public works, and veterans affairs committees. On top of that he's run the largest scale campaign in history with the most amazing ground game ever seen, and the most disciplined, focused and organized campaign ever, that even Bill Oreilly called the best campaign he'd ever seen. He's shown leadership, judgment, skill, an ability to choose the best advisers, and an amazing talent of inspiring people to actually take action!
I really don't see how someone can truly believe that Palin has more experience and is more qualified than Obama to be president, unless they're without all the facts or just an idiot.
Obama wants to tax and punish the rich more and claim to give tax cuts to the middle-class. He wants the rich to "give." How is that not socialism? He wants to shorten the gap between the rich and the middle-class with his tax plan.
And his tax plan doesn't even get through to people. He is not giving tax CUTS. He is giving tax CREDIT. And that DOES NOT equal lower tax rates at all.
I mean, so many people just go to Barack's homepage and look at his tax plan and don't do any research beyond that. I mean, some quick ass Google searches does wonders.
Have you missed all of tenbaggers posts? I'll let him deal with your articles cause he'll probably give you an essay with in depth tax analysis.
The attack that Obama's plan will make the middle class pay more is ridiculous.
He wants the RICH TO PAY THE TAXES THEY PAID DURING CLINTON - THEY DID JUST FINE THEN! And he's not raising taxes, he's letting a temporary tax cut EXPIRE! He's not redistributing wealth, he's making a fairer tax system that will also help get the economy going.
InnovativeYogis.com
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TenBagger United States. Oct 31 2008 23:40. Posts 2018
TheHuHu,
You claim "Obama's Tax Plan does not help the middle-class." That is just so wrong. In fact, it is quite ignorant and I find it hard to believe that any intelligent individual can believe that assertion. If you want to claim that Obama is "socialist", well I would disagree with the term "socialist" but I cannot say that you are absolutely wrong. If you want to claim that Obama is inexperienced, again I would disagree but I can see your point of view and I cannot completely rule out your opinion. However, claiming that Obama's tax plan does not help the middle class is 100% wrong and that is a fact.
and you support your view with bullshit websites that misrepresent basic facts. Listen, if you google something, you can find websites that supports the most ridiculous point of view. That fact that you found some outlier website with zero credibiltiy does nothing to support your claim.
is the most ignorant thing that I've read in quite some time. I'm quite familiar with US tax policy and I am a small business owner myself. That article claims that Obama wants to increase the marginal individual tax rate to "~51%". That is pure ignorance right there and by you believing that BS shows that you have blinders on. If care about the truth, why don't you take the time to read the actual primary sources. Try reading the link I posted
As I mentioned to daut earlier in this thread, although I am a die hard liberal and huge Obama supporter, I can see many scenarios where it would be in one's best interest to vote for McCain. If Daut were to vote McCain, not that he would care, but I would view his vote as rational and intelligent. If a middle class voter were to vote McCain because they believe your assertion that "Obama's Tax Plan does not help the middle-class." then that is pure ignorance and you've basically been duped by the republican propoganda machine.
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TenBagger United States. Oct 31 2008 23:43. Posts 2018
On October 31 2008 22:29 k2o4 wrote:
Have you missed all of tenbaggers posts? I'll let him deal with your articles cause he'll probably give you an essay with in depth tax analysis.
The attack that Obama's plan will make the middle class pay more is ridiculous.
He wants the RICH TO PAY THE TAXES THEY PAID DURING CLINTON - THEY DID JUST FINE THEN! And he's not raising taxes, he's letting a temporary tax cut EXPIRE! He's not redistributing wealth, he's making a fairer tax system that will also help get the economy going.
well, just because I support obama does not mean that I can deny the truth. Obama is redistributing wealth. Of course they can't use that term because this country is full of HuHu's that have this ridiculous fear of socialism. But any income tax is a redistribution of wealth and the more progressive it is, the more redistribution occurs. He is letting a temporary tax cut expire and the fact is that bush has taken it so far to one extreme, that even with obama's plan, the US tax code is still regressive by historical and global standards.
whats wrong with socialism? Its just a word people use to get a knee jerk cold war era reaction. Socialism isnt a bad thing. Socialism doesnt work, but capitalism doesnt either. You need to blur the borders.
ok first off let me make something totally clear, again
I am not a Democrap, nor a Repukelican
both sides have their rights, their wrongs, and right now both main nominees royally suck imo
yes I do believe of the two main noms, in the end the McCain camp is far the lesser evil as the role of the government goes because
fundamentally I think government should be decentralized
Obama would definitely create a bigger government (ooooh but I better not say the soc word)
at least McCain is honest about the middle east and has taken a stance on views - not flip flopping everything to fit the time and place til he has total control to do w/e the hell he really wants to do
As for..
On October 31 2008 20:32 k2o4 wrote:
Do you really, truly, sincerely believe that Palin has more experience than Obama and is better qualified to be president? Because she was on the city council and mayor of a 7,000 person town and governor of 600,000 person state for 2 yrs? And don't give me the "she has executive experience cause she was a governor" argument cause then you're saying she's more qualified than McCain and she should be the top of the ticket. I also don't buy that "she took on her own corrupt party so she's a reformer" BS - Cause the large amount of ethic complaints she's had including being found guilty abusing her authority in troopergate proves she's no reformer, and she only took on her own party cause she saw a chance to use their corruption against them and get herself ahead to a higher position in govt.
Obama has 3 years as an amazing community organizer, first black president of the Harvard law review, 12 years as a constitutional law professor, 8 years as a state senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, 4 years in the US senate representing 13 million people and sponsoring 131 bills, and while in the senate he served on the foreign affairs, environmental and public works, and veterans affairs committees. On top of that he's run the largest scale campaign in history with the most amazing ground game ever seen, and the most disciplined, focused and organized campaign ever, that even Bill Oreilly called the best campaign he'd ever seen. He's shown leadership, judgment, skill, an ability to choose the best advisers, and an amazing talent of inspiring people to actually take action!
I really don't see how someone can truly believe that Palin has more experience and is more qualified than Obama to be president, unless they're without all the facts or just an idiot.
why would I bother finding links, refinding articles and videos, or spend any energy digging up info that I've seen/read or heard for u when it's obvious ur dead set on Obama?
besides the 98% chance of me in the end leveling myself in ur concrete world, what would be achieved?
I mean even here in this quote alone ur all but saying your mind is totally and completely made up, and not to tell u anything because you already know the answer etc
like u and ORiley said, the Obama camp has campaigned this near perfection; it's very easy right now to keep Obama in a good light no matter the argument - that should be scary and set off warning bells in itself
so...if to u the grass is the most green on ur side then there's really no point is there
your not going to take value in anything that's said on that opposite side, the Republican side (which again I am not on)
...simply put you are going to see what you want to see no matter how much sifting and pointing I do
I feel I would have an easier time trying to convince Bill Gates to invest in Mac or Linux than to try and convince u or some of the Obama lovers here that what ur swallowing is bad and to vote third party or McCain
seems really pointless for me to do either so if ur needing to know, and want to know something bad enough, u'll find it
u'll one day realize ur eating bs w/ a smile on ur face
but u know, in fact I constantly wonder why I even bother with anything here at all as it seems all I do is offend or am written off/ignored right off the bat as an idiot (maybe cuz the stakes I play?)
thank god I've biiiiiiiiiiiig shoulders ^^
hmm I used to lurk...maybe I ramble here for the lurkers
dunno
all I do know is actions speak louder than words
and all ur actions I've seen here k2o4 say ur deadset on ur homeboy Obama!
god we all just know he is here for u
heh ok live and learn
if the *federal government providing everything* is really what u want deep down k2o4, then u will never have the wake up call that will surely come to u one day otherwise
and I'm happy for u, but me and u arguing any other details is futile
---
TenBagger plz don't take offense to this when I ask you have u ever been outside the US for longer than 2 months in one time?
The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action.
On October 31 2008 22:29 k2o4 wrote:
Have you missed all of tenbaggers posts? I'll let him deal with your articles cause he'll probably give you an essay with in depth tax analysis.
The attack that Obama's plan will make the middle class pay more is ridiculous.
He wants the RICH TO PAY THE TAXES THEY PAID DURING CLINTON - THEY DID JUST FINE THEN! And he's not raising taxes, he's letting a temporary tax cut EXPIRE! He's not redistributing wealth, he's making a fairer tax system that will also help get the economy going.
well, just because I support obama does not mean that I can deny the truth. Obama is redistributing wealth. Of course they can't use that term because this country is full of HuHu's that have this ridiculous fear of socialism. But any income tax is a redistribution of wealth and the more progressive it is, the more redistribution occurs. He is letting a temporary tax cut expire and the fact is that bush has taken it so far to one extreme, that even with obama's plan, the US tax code is still regressive by historical and global standards.
True, this fear of socialism is getting rediculous. Many americans think socialism is the same as communism, and they were taught to fear that during the cold war era. But infact you have many "socialist" aspects over there already, socialism like practised in europe is not real socialism but a mixture of socilism and capitalism. Communist would call us capitalists and capitalist would call us communists. Americans have socialism already, they are just not as socialist as we are over here, I wish they could drop that stupid fear of the word.
Some are saying socialism is like stealing money from the rich, I would like to know where does the money/wealth come from in the first place?
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
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