[nl50] KK strange flushy river

villain runs 17/6/4 over 125 hands

i just called ip because i figured i could probably sneak in a bit of extra value from lower overpairs, qk, qa with a queen, idk.

anyway, i dont think i terribly misplayed the hand up until the river(ok maybe i should make a bigger flop raise? @@),

my main question is do you call or raise the river, if so how much and what do you do if he reshoves you

try not to speculate too hard on what the results are and let me know what you think is the optimal play. am i completely out of my mind thinking his range contains aces with a club, some two pairs and lower sets?

Submitted by : rockman255

PokerStars Game #21124481161: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/10/12 0:56:54 ET
Table 'Cuyo' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: lpoolreds ($45.05 in chips)
Seat 3: playbyrules ($29.65 in chips)
Seat 4: taiga ($50.95 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($71.30 in chips)
Seat 6: WhiteWhale28 ($68.45 in chips)
Seat 8: bubudobakdan ($35.80 in chips)
Seat 9: punki_nav ($20.50 in chips)
bubudobakdan: posts small blind $0.25
punki_nav: posts big blind $0.50

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
lpoolreds: folds
playbyrules: folds
taiga: raises $1 to $1.50
Hero : calls $1.50
WhiteWhale28: folds
bubudobakdan: folds
punki_nav: folds

Flop (Pot : $3.75)

   
taiga: bets $1.50
Hero : raises $4.50 to $6
taiga: calls $4.50

Turn (Pot : $15.75)

   
taiga: bets $3
Hero : calls $3

River (Pot : $21.75)

   
taiga: bets $7
Hero : ho-hum

Seems like an easy call to me?

edit: I don't think he'll be calling a reraise without the flush. He's either super weak or trying to induce a shove/raise after seeing that you raised him on the flop. Either way, I don't think a raise is good here, since he'll fold all things that you beat and only call with flush unless he's some super donk calling down REALLY light.

i basically stated that i am at least calling, am i raising?

I'm confused. Seems like an easy raise to me. Gets value out of Ax, AJ, random two pair and lower sets. Shove probably only gets called by flushes though,

seems like a good time to raise for value but you've gotta fold to a shove

Well clearly he thinks he's got you beat. Could have been like AJ one club, enough to hold his interest and keep betting turn/river. His fishy line makes me think he'd probably snap min3bet if he flopped a flush.

i think you have to raise/call river

shove river

--- Nuked ---

Definitely raise preflop.
You should raise a lot harder on the flop, it is way too drawy...
Raise river all day - he looks extremely weak, his bets are so pathetic on every single street. It's going to be sick if he reraises you though.

river raise = shove ......
agree with those who say 3bet pre, this is not nl5k

On October 12 2008 08:46 TallyHo wrote: river raise = shove ...... agree with those who say 3bet pre, this is not nl5k

what is the point^ u gotta 3bet Nl2 but not NL5000??



however 3bet preflop, Flop raise size is fine, turn is fine, raise all in river

nah I mean you flat KK to vary your play against observant opponents and balance your ranges but not against some random nl50 donkey

--- Nuked ---

On October 12 2008 10:00 devon06atX wrote: Show nested quote + On October 12 2008 09:26 TallyHo wrote: nah I mean you flat KK to vary your play against observant opponents and balance your ranges but not against some random nl50 donkey DING DING DING but i would probably 3b kk regardless of if i was playing 2nl or 100000nl. money = good, right?

hahahahaha DING DING DING hahahaha

unfortunately cole south disagrees with you in his latest video but this isn't the worst thing that could happen

well who cares if SOME cole south disagrees? vs random always 3bet KK and let them call with K7o so they can go broke on 27J board. btw did south disagree on 3betting at highstakes or at nl50?

anyways if you have no idea about the player its hard to choose between raise and flat, think id probably shove (your stack is about the size of a pot sized raise).

and yeah i raise bigger on flop

On October 12 2008 12:47 auffenpuffer wrote: well who cares if SOME cole south disagrees? vs random always 3bet KK and let them call with K7o so they can go broke on 27J board. btw did south disagree on 3betting at highstakes or at nl50? anyways if you have no idea about the player its hard to choose between raise and flat, think id probably shove (your stack is about the size of a pot sized raise). and yeah i raise bigger on flop

wtf auffenpuffer walks into a bar. THUMP. hahahaha. that's my mental image of someone leveling themself

17/6 I don't think he has flush, I'll raise river and call to a shove

i know guys, i guess it is a mistake to mix it up against him, i kind of gave him too much credit. but against certain nl50ers it probably is +ev to just call here. just not this weaktight tard. i mean, by 130k hands on stars i really should know who are the strong players (yes they exist) but hes not one of them

Raise pre

Jam river


ez hand

if he is valuebetting like that a made flush,his retardedness takes all my money and I can live with it.
These small bets are mostly blockbets imo and he probably has the A of clubs. Easy river raise.

not raising pf really should be an exception.

flop raise = good.

i want:

turn raise
river raise

play for stacks on river. for value against 67, Aj, Ak, jj, 66, 77, A6s, A7s

sure you lose vs flush but doestn look like he has it. (otherwise so be it, its the risk of slowplaying pf)

stacking off on river becomes easier when you raise turn. and i don't know why you didnt. your not even that far behind if he has one of the Ax holdings. which are only part of the range. AcJx is the only hand that reallly crushes you.

ez raising on all streets imo

you can make it something like $20 all the way through shove, anything in that range is good
flatting pf is also somewhat standard against a nit since hes folding all but QQ+ to 3-bets probably, you lose value from his dominated hands hwne you 3-bet him

also for everyone saying raise turn, that's preety bad advice since we have no plan on : if he shoves // if he flats are we shoving river? or checking down? Definatley somewhat silly to assume we can get 2 streets of large value from an unknown nit, I'd much rather raise turn with a bluff

calling and collecting more information about his hand + potentially improving our hand is best

if you're totally lost in these spots then never flat pf. makes the hand 100000000000000x easier to play as it simply plays itself for 100 bbs.

as played i think a value shove here is pretty standard. unless you have some reads that dictate otherwise.

since you guys are still posting occassionally on this one , heres the results:

i dont think i terribly misplayed it based on my opponent sure i could have 3bet pre and he probably just folds idk

and i think postflop was okay, if anything the mistakes were on the river, maybe reraising too small with my set of kings and also maybe as played i could have folded the river shove. because i do remember saying to myself if he shoves river i must fold here.

(yes, i put his range as AcX, maybe some sets, maybe some aces up in particular AcJx and of course the flopped flushes )

anyway this is a days old hand stop damn posting on it, im already like 10k hands of 100nl

Submitted by : rockman255

PokerStars Game #21124481161: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/10/12 0:56:54 ET
Table 'Cuyo' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: lpoolreds ($45.05 in chips)
Seat 3: playbyrules ($29.65 in chips)
Seat 4: taiga ($50.95 in chips)
Seat 5: rockman255 ($71.30 in chips)
Seat 6: WhiteWhale28 ($68.45 in chips)
Seat 8: bubudobakdan ($35.80 in chips)
Seat 9: punki_nav ($20.50 in chips)
bubudobakdan: posts small blind $0.25
punki_nav: posts big blind $0.50

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to rockman255
lpoolreds: folds
playbyrules: folds
taiga: raises $1 to $1.50
rockman255 : calls $1.50
WhiteWhale28: folds
bubudobakdan: folds
punki_nav: folds

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $3.75)

   
taiga: bets $1.50
rockman255 : raises $4.50 to $6
taiga: calls $4.50

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $15.75)

   
taiga: bets $3
rockman255 : calls $3

River (Pot : $21.75)

   
taiga: bets $7
rockman255 : raises $14 to $21
taiga: raises $19.45 to $40.45 and is all-in
rockman255 : calls $19.45

Showdown
taiga: shows (a flush, Ace high)
rockman255 : mucks hand
taiga collected $99.65 from pot

Summary
Total pot $102.65 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: lpoolreds folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: playbyrules folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: taiga showed and won ($99.65) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 5: rockman255 mucked
Seat 6: WhiteWhale28 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: bubudobakdan (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: punki_nav (big blind) folded before Flop

Raise/Fold to shove