i believe in God god, but i really think one way or another it is rather foolish to not believe in intelligent design in some shape or form. Seems to me like the things are way too together and not random and in line with humane way of thinking to really be just a random occurrence.
On October 09 2008 18:10 SfydjkLm wrote:
i believe in God god, but i really think one way or another it is rather foolish to not believe in intelligent design in some shape or form. Seems to me like the things are way too together and not random and in line with humane way of thinking to really be just a random occurrence.
explain yourself!....more
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Robinson47 United Kingdom. Oct 09 2008 19:28. Posts 992
of course not, no religion is real, it is all rubbish, religion is how underdeveloped people spend there time with no other form of entertainment, once radio tv /sport complex/pub/ clubs are about, once a country develops religion gets chucked out of the window.
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YoMeR United States. Oct 09 2008 19:32. Posts 12438
so robinson USA isn't a developed country?
eZ Life.
1
TimDawg United States. Oct 09 2008 19:33. Posts 10197
not sure tbh
online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball
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TimDawg United States. Oct 09 2008 19:34. Posts 10197
so i voted for PA obv
online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball
On October 09 2008 18:10 SfydjkLm wrote:
i believe in God god, but i really think one way or another it is rather foolish to not believe in intelligent design in some shape or form. Seems to me like the things are way too together and not random and in line with humane way of thinking to really be just a random occurrence.
ever thought that this inteligent being has to be created too? and it almost even more complex to create that "dude" than to create the universe.... lol
CrownRoyal United States. Oct 09 2008 19:46. Posts 11386
god as a thing yes not an individual
agnostic
WHAT IS THIS
0
eightfourO United States. Oct 09 2008 19:49. Posts 820
/vote delete thread b4 there is a holy thread war on LP.
I am a god damn Rootin Tootin Shootin Cowboy!!
Last edit: 09/10/2008 19:50
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TimDawg United States. Oct 09 2008 19:50. Posts 10197
On October 09 2008 18:36 nolan wrote:
cruisin' down the street in my six fo
jockin the bitches, slappin the hoes
online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball
On October 09 2008 18:10 SfydjkLm wrote:
i believe in God god, but i really think one way or another it is rather foolish to not believe in intelligent design in some shape or form. Seems to me like the things are way too together and not random and in line with humane way of thinking to really be just a random occurrence.
it's natural to feel this way but this argument has been countered so thoroughly
you should watch some richard dawkins stuff he's a really classy guy fun to watch and I think it'll interest you or maybe even change your opinion
On October 09 2008 18:10 SfydjkLm wrote:
i believe in God god, but i really think one way or another it is rather foolish to not believe in intelligent design in some shape or form. Seems to me like the things are way too together and not random and in line with humane way of thinking to really be just a random occurrence.
On October 09 2008 18:41 Liquid_GoLD wrote:
BAN religion.. number one reason people get killed and war and shit! i fucking hate it!
religion is for weak people who cant get a hold of theire own lives and get lost in this world.. kick ur self in the ass
You can't ask religion to be banned now. Religion is a sort of glue (actually many sorts) that somehow holds 6 billion people together.
Religion isn't all bad. That said i believe in PA.
im sure that, if everyone were 100% sure their actions has no impact on afterlife, some people who are currently good people would either be less good or even, evil people
they are just scared to be sent to hell
im not saying this is the case for everyone, thought
nowadays only like 5% of the normal ppl belives in heaven and hell...
and most ppl like me make good things not because they are afraid to go to hell, but because they feel good when they make good
On October 09 2008 19:48 lebowski wrote:
nah Floofy religion never stopped anyone from being an ass,just helps people comfort their existential agony and not think too much about death etc.
you think mother theresa would have acted the same if she did not believe in god
On October 09 2008 18:10 SfydjkLm wrote:
i believe in God god, but i really think one way or another it is rather foolish to not believe in intelligent design in some shape or form. Seems to me like the things are way too together and not random and in line with humane way of thinking to really be just a random occurrence.
evolution= randomess on the way the DNA code changes
99,9% of all species failed to adapt to the environment and died.We're in the percentage that made it.
that's the miracle of life ladies and gentlemen
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
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eightfourO United States. Oct 09 2008 21:15. Posts 820
i think it was aristotle who said that anyone born with a brain knows the difference between right and wrong...
thusly people aren't afraid of "heaven and hell".
i believe in God, i'm a Christian. I know it's hard to believe, but i have faith. The bible, not so much. I don't think you have to read the bible to be a christian. It's based on what people are telling you, and it's not Gods writing.
I am a god damn Rootin Tootin Shootin Cowboy!!
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JoeDeertay United States. Oct 09 2008 21:17. Posts 1730
I'm not really sure, tbh. I mean, the universe is so massively complex that I can't really see it being all put together by some uber explosion somewhere, and even if that were true then how did the thing that blew up get there in the first place? It all had to start somewhere....too bad it is impossible for humans to comprehend such a universal beginning and explain it.
Variance has a big brother named doomswitch. - edzwoo
On October 09 2008 20:17 JoeDeertay wrote:
I'm not really sure, tbh. I mean, the universe is so massively complex that I can't really see it being all put together by some uber explosion somewhere, and even if that were true then how did the thing that blew up get there in the first place? It all had to start somewhere....too bad it is impossible for humans to comprehend such a universal beginning and explain it.
i think its more likely an explosion popped out of nowhere than some giant master mind with insane inteligence popped out of nowhere
On October 09 2008 20:17 JoeDeertay wrote:
I'm not really sure, tbh. I mean, the universe is so massively complex that I can't really see it being all put together by some uber explosion somewhere, and even if that were true then how did the thing that blew up get there in the first place? It all had to start somewhere....too bad it is impossible for humans to comprehend such a universal beginning and explain it.
dude that doesnt make sense.
energy, the most basic form we know, and you cant picture that existing yet you can picture a complex being with conciousness.... wtf.
On October 09 2008 20:17 JoeDeertay wrote:
I'm not really sure, tbh. I mean, the universe is so massively complex that I can't really see it being all put together by some uber explosion somewhere, and even if that were true then how did the thing that blew up get there in the first place? It all had to start somewhere....too bad it is impossible for humans to comprehend such a universal beginning and explain it.
the Big Bang, a generally accepted theory on the creation of the universe by most scientists today, involves both
time and space to be created with it.
Not that empty space existed and it got filled by the BB's particles and energy.
The space is growing as the gallaxies move further from each other.
It's really impossible to grasp this with our every day experience, but we are unable to understand more basic stuff anyway,that time is not absolute for example
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
Last edit: 09/10/2008 21:31
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JoeDeertay United States. Oct 09 2008 21:30. Posts 1730
On October 09 2008 20:22 Muhweli wrote:
R
O
F
L
This is CLASSIC!!!!! lmfao
Variance has a big brother named doomswitch. - edzwoo
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 09 2008 21:38. Posts 7710
On October 09 2008 19:48 lebowski wrote:
nah Floofy religion never stopped anyone from being an ass,just helps people comfort their existential agony and not think too much about death etc.
you think mother theresa would have acted the same if she did not believe in god
yes, mother theresa often struggled with the question of whether or not she believed in god.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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PokerDoc88 Australia. Oct 09 2008 21:55. Posts 3527
lol at the crazy christian warrior! and lol at jesus is my friend song!
Personally I believe in a god, but this god is not personified and it is not taught in any religion that exists today. It didn't create the world in 7 days or any bullshit of that sort. Theories of evolution and abiogenesis gain more and more support over the years as scientists continue their research and experiments, and all the evidence contradicts basically everything taught in any religious text.
The only reason I believe in a god is that there are forces of nature (electromagnetic, gravity, strong and weak) which persist and are constantly there regardless of if we're looking or not. So if you were to ask me to describe the god i believe in, then I'd have to say it exists everywhere around us, we are all a part of the god, he has no bias or no plans for anything, he merely keeps our matter and energy abiding by the forces of nature which randomly happen to be as they are.
If you are to look up definition of god I'm pretty sure it would say 'supernatural being'. And since no scientific theory has yet been able to explain the origin of matter, energy, time and space (before the big bang) then I guess I'll assume there's a supernatural force (ie. a force not of this world) that assisted in creating such things.
Don't think I'm saying there is a divine creator with intelligence or anything retarded like that, I'm not going to anthropomorphise god into some human-like character with human-like morals and beliefs, that's just retarded.
nope god is for people who cant comprehend that they have no purpose in life and when its over there is most likely nothing, that beeing said I think religion is good for the millions of people in hopeless situations around the world, if they didnt have god they might as well kill themselves
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On October 09 2008 19:48 lebowski wrote:
nah Floofy religion never stopped anyone from being an ass,just helps people comfort their existential agony and not think too much about death etc.
you think mother theresa would have acted the same if she did not believe in god
yes, mother theresa often struggled with the question of whether or not she believed in god.
she had hopes it existed
so even if theres only 1% it exist, its worth spending your life being a good person and have a nice seat in heaven
hahahaha DAY9 the spiritual group met and married on match.com
"fortunately, she had a chart, that was very compatible to mine"
man this is getting so good
The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action.
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Into Infinity United States. Oct 09 2008 22:33. Posts 1884
On October 09 2008 18:46 CrownRoyal wrote:
god as a thing yes not an individual
On October 09 2008 20:17 JoeDeertay wrote:
I'm not really sure, tbh. I mean, the universe is so massively complex that I can't really see it being all put together by some uber explosion somewhere, and even if that were true then how did the thing that blew up get there in the first place? It all had to start somewhere....too bad it is impossible for humans to comprehend such a universal beginning and explain it.
Great argument, though I would add one thing. I think its a bit more likely than some guy creating heaven and earth and then the light. This means he created what we know as earth and heaven.. IN THE DARK? Thats fucking amazing? Coulnd't see a thing, just did it cause he wanted to.
On October 09 2008 18:10 SfydjkLm wrote:
i believe in God god, but i really think one way or another it is rather foolish to not believe in intelligent design in some shape or form. Seems to me like the things are way too together and not random and in line with humane way of thinking to really be just a random occurrence.
On October 09 2008 19:43 Floofy wrote:
btw i think religion has positive aspects
im sure that, if everyone were 100% sure their actions has no impact on afterlife, some people who are currently good people would either be less good or even, evil people
they are just scared to be sent to hell
im not saying this is the case for everyone, thought
LOL WAKE UP FLOOFY ! CATHOLIC PRIESTS RAPE KIDS IN THE CHURCHS AND GUESS WHAT THEY DO BELIEVE IN GOD.
The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action.
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NotSorry United States. Oct 09 2008 23:17. Posts 2603
I do believe in the possibility of a higher life form but nothing like what religions have described to date
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
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PokerDoc88 Australia. Oct 09 2008 23:38. Posts 3527
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
Agreed 100%, Floofy do you see why your arguments of mother teresa etc. are totally bullshit now?
dont know either
Religion is bullshit i think we all agree on that.Thats the most ridiculous thing man has ever created its an unlimited by any laws power basically... But about someone/thing above us a greater "Force" or wever yeah well who knows
God exists. laugh all you want, but when the day comes when you're near death or lose all hope in life you'll be begging that he does exist. And i hope God will just LOL at your sorry, arrogant, narcisistic assess
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
Agreed 100%, Floofy do you see why your arguments of mother teresa etc. are totally bullshit now?
i realize my argument was kinda wrongly worded, but its still true
religion makes people SCARED to do bad things. so it isnt completly useless
pretty general statements so far. but obviously any deeper points other than the too highly valued opinion,and superficial argument, won't appear in a forum post like this. people that believe one side confirm there belief to themselves, and people who aren't sure, read some posts thinking it helps them to decide.
I don't believe in catholic God, I have been searching for answers since I was a little kid (like many other here, I think).
First I gotta say,believe in God is +EV, you can either believe or not. If you don't believe and he does not exist, you win, but if you don't believe and he exist, prepare for the doomswitch.
But, listenting to the news of priests raping kids, know about all the crimes church has done, makes you a nonbeliever. So the thing is you can't believe in church, but you have to go further. Actually read the entire bible, look for many points of view, do some research. After doing this, you will know that nobody knows a shit, and like the theory said, god can be a flyin spaguetti monster.
It is said that religion brings happiness and confidence, so you can handle the fear of dying. Actually, to believe in something, makes you a more stable person, (believe in no more after life is to believe in something), its in nature of human to think of whats going to happen after life.
There are people that are religious, that believes in god, makes them happy, makes them feel confortable, are they wrong? who cares, because they live their lifes as they want, serving their god, doing good things to their society.
Religions is definitly not bullshit, it teaches kids how to live, to love other, to stay out of trouble; its like a set of rules for a good way of living. The real bullshit is Fanatism, killing people for religion, not doing something you want as dancing (for christianism i.e.) that is what is wrong imo.
As for me, as I'm studying an engeering career, I have to say I don't believe in Jesus, I believe in energy, like I think baal said, energy we are all formed by. I do believe in evolution, since we are a bunch of donks raising KT OOP.
Dr. House said something I really liked when he was asked "so you feel confortable by thinking there is nothing after life, this is it?"-----"no, I like to think that life is not only a test"
On October 09 2008 20:29 lebowski wrote:
the Big Bang, a generally accepted theory on the creation of the universe by most scientists today, involves both
time and space to be created with it.
I know this is kind of a lot to ask, but do you happen to have a source for this claim?
I skimmed through this book by hawking long ago and if I remember correctly he said something along the lines of "it wouldn't be useful to record history before there was anything around, so we can just say that time started when the big bang occured" That's different from what you're saying imo
also about what you said of "the space is getting larger as galaxies move farther apart" is confusing to me.. I imagine an infinite space that already was infinite from the start but just the objects in it are moving farther apart - is this wrong?
On October 09 2008 20:17 JoeDeertay wrote:
I'm not really sure, tbh. I mean, the universe is so massively complex that I can't really see it being all put together by some uber explosion somewhere, and even if that were true then how did the thing that blew up get there in the first place? It all had to start somewhere....too bad it is impossible for humans to comprehend such a universal beginning and explain it.
this is the same argument SfydjkLm brought up.. it's natural to believe that but this way of thinking has actually been thoroughly debunked
please watch some richard dawkins videos on youtube! people bring up this argument constantly vs him and he patiently debunks it again and again, you will gain so much from doing this or reading his book "the god delusion"
On October 10 2008 00:14 p4ge wrote:
richard dawkins and his books are its own religion, with its own set of followers.
well he doesn't have to get his info from dawkins but just that "it's too complex it couldn't just spawn" argument that keeps popping up is no longer relevant thats all im trying to share
it already popped up twice here on LP i really think a shit ton of people worldwide believe in God only because of this one debunked reason
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history
On October 09 2008 19:08 Muhweli wrote:
Gamblin' is a sin, would be -EV to believe in God.
haha that was stylish
People keep believing in god just because their were forced to through society,education etc.Imagine you were born in a society that atheism was the common sense,would you still believe in an 'outside' authority?
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history
I strongly disagree, inquisition, repression of free thought for almost 2k years
On October 09 2008 20:29 lebowski wrote:
the Big Bang, a generally accepted theory on the creation of the universe by most scientists today, involves both
time and space to be created with it.
I know this is kind of a lot to ask, but do you happen to have a source for this claim?
I skimmed through this book by hawking long ago and if I remember correctly he said something along the lines of "it wouldn't be useful to record history before there was anything around, so we can just say that time started when the big bang occured" That's different from what you're saying imo
also about what you said of "the space is getting larger as galaxies move farther apart" is confusing to me.. I imagine an infinite space that already was infinite from the start but just the objects in it are moving farther apart - is this wrong?
Bing Bang theory has confirmed as fas as i am concerned in the time after zero.We dont have any information about the exact zero time except that there was a necessity of some certain conditions.I think that scientists trying to confirm zero time by measuring the gravitational waves.
The universe expands and the first one that observed this was Hubble (Hubble's law is a law that was confirmed in addition to the observations if i remember correct)
I don't believe in any "higher power". I blame karma for stuff all the time though, but not seriously. However, I do respect a lot of christian values (not all) and it's my firm belief that it's the "best" of the big religions due simply to the fact that it has evolved the most thanks to the influence from western society.
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Bigbobm United States. Oct 10 2008 06:15. Posts 5513
No.
If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to, Then He is not omnipotent.
If He is able, but not willing, Then He is malevolent.
If He is both able and willing, Then whence cometh evil?
If He is neither able nor willing, Then why call Him God?
-Epicurus
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God
who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo Galilei
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-Albert Einstein
I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it.
I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say that one is an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have.
Somehow it was better to say one was a humanist or agnostic.
I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time.
-Isaac Asimov
Truth in matters of religion is simply the opinion that has survived.
-Oscar Wilde
Its time to stop thinking like a bitch and think smart like a poker player - ket
4
Bigbobm United States. Oct 10 2008 06:26. Posts 5513
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history
I disagree. I don't think religion has played a positive role in any way in the history of humanity, if anything it has hindered the progress of humanity. I could write on forever about how religion has plagued the progression of society, but I am le tired
Its time to stop thinking like a bitch and think smart like a poker player - ket
On October 09 2008 20:29 lebowski wrote:
the Big Bang, a generally accepted theory on the creation of the universe by most scientists today, involves both
time and space to be created with it.
I know this is kind of a lot to ask, but do you happen to have a source for this claim?
I skimmed through this book by hawking long ago and if I remember correctly he said something along the lines of "it wouldn't be useful to record history before there was anything around, so we can just say that time started when the big bang occured" That's different from what you're saying imo
also about what you said of "the space is getting larger as galaxies move farther apart" is confusing to me.. I imagine an infinite space that already was infinite from the start but just the objects in it are moving farther apart - is this wrong?
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
Depends on how you define good. One could argue that your "goodness" or "badness" is determined by the consequences of your actions and not the motivations behind them.
well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist
society and experience forge every person's moral code
so even if the motivations where left aside,who can ever be the judge of the "goodness" of a cosequence?
only the person who did it,
but every person's action is deep down what he understands as the action that serves his best interest.
In other words,everything that people have ever done is what they considered "good" for them at the time they did it.
Sometimes they think they are doing something "evil" because what they do contradicts their usual morals.
What actually is happening is that deep down they reject their moral code's current usefullness on the specific matter and then feel guilty about it.
Other times people feel like they made a sin,because the choice they made at the time proved to be wrong/short sighted/clouded by emotion.That doesn't change the fact that when they did it, they thought it was good for them.
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
1
okyougosu Russian Federation. Oct 10 2008 08:23. Posts 963
The religion was always an unknown part of our world where science didnt get yet. There where lightning gods, sun gods, and poker gods all the time, but now we all know what is electricity, light, probability, equity and mixed strategies theory ie things fish call gods. Unfortunately science developed by mankind, the only creature with intellegence in the whole universe is not yet good enough to explain alot of things happen. Technically IQ is counted as bits per amount of ez boolean functions 'AND', 'NOT', min iq=1. An inverter, conjunctor, disjunctor has iq=1. Compare with human IQ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#IQ_and_the_brain.....
As the individual with higher iq then the other one is obv able to process more data using his own brain and will more likely try find out reasons of unexplainable then rely it to some godlike forces and stay away. Again, the children mostly got higher iq then their parents, most of the old people do believe in god.
Lammerman
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[vital]Myth United States. Oct 10 2008 08:28. Posts 12159
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history
uhhh wow how much history have you studied? religion has created far more evil and murder than anything else and it isn't even close
Eh, I can go a few more orbits in life, before taxes blind me out - PoorUser
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CrownRoyal United States. Oct 10 2008 08:31. Posts 11386
religion is a key factor in ancient civilization because it makes people obey.
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history
uhhh wow how much history have you studied? religion has created far more evil and murder than anything else and it isn't even close
LOL what? history is more than the documented factual recorded literature we have on it today. history books record the facts: the crusades and the conflicts and the bloodshed. but do they speculate on the obvious benefits of religion when it had massive influence on the human psyche, fabric of society and bringing communities together, family relationships and even government? when it dictated a moral code for people to live by in a time long before the effective enforcing of law and order we have today, and at the same time took away peoples despair and anxiety when life sucked and there was no medicine or technology only disease and hardship. to say religion sucks because of whats in history books is like sorting your pt database by biggest won and lost pots, only looking at the biggest lost pots and concluding you must be the most terrible player ever because all youre doing is losing huge pots
I'd like to ad that most wars and stuff brought on by religion have some kind of economic or power-related motive too, so I'm pretty sure that Random Evil King/Leader (TM) would've found some other stupid reason then a guy in the sky for invading whatever country he wanted to invade anyway.
On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote:
well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist
what do you base this off?
I'd also like to ad that any attempt to remove "good" and "evil" form the map should be addressed by a really big black dude, preferably something like MW in Pulp Fiction, raping the shit out of the person in question and then he should be required to state if he still doesn't think evil exists.
Last edit: 10/10/2008 09:37
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sniderstyle United States. Oct 10 2008 09:52. Posts 2046
There is likely no God. There is definitely no religion that is correct.
It always amazes me that something like 90%+ of people believe in a religion in someway.
Though reason and logic tells me that the odds are very slim there is an afterlife/religion, I'm willing to entertain the idea I could be wrong. I've seen "Who Wants to be a MIllionaire" When people ask the audience, the audience is right just about every time.
On a side note, I'm about to have breakfast on Saturday morning with my uber Christian uncle whom I haven't seen since I was 15 (and still religious). Anyone have any advice for me when the inevetiable question of, "How is your spirtual life" comes up?
Should I be truthful and tell him I'm a borderline atheist? That'll defintiely spark a debate and I don't really feel like defneidng my views to a guy who doesn't believe in evolution.
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
1
sniderstyle United States. Oct 10 2008 09:55. Posts 2046
ALso, one of the things I hate most about religion is that it gives people an intellecutal laziness. It's easy to say, we don't know why X happens therefore God created it. this kind of thinking defintely slowed down our advancement over the course of history and the farther we get away from this kind of thinking the better.
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
1
EscapingR Netherlands. Oct 10 2008 10:02. Posts 2353
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history
"If it works it works" doesnt work too well in the ethereal
I mean, here on earth, if a murderer doesnt murder because he doesnt want to go to jail, whatever nothing happens it doesnt effect anyone. But if he's not murdering just because of his God then his god should know and understand his motives and recognize that this isnt a good person
On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote:
well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist
what do you base this off?
well first of all you can easily identify that different societies have different ethics throughout history
For communities unable to feed themselves even cannibalism was acceptable ,with some restrictions.
If we don't base our search for what is good for ourselves to books of supposed divine origin,we will inevitably draw different conclusions because we don't have similar experiences or even the same intelligence to draw the same.
Most people will agree on some basic stuff,like that random murder is unethical,as that easily relates to self preservation and species preservation insticts. Most animals will do the same in a purely instictive way.
So what organised society is doing is to enforce a certain moral code and punish those who fail to comply with it.Those who believe that it's good that such a code forced to people should be influenced by metaphysical packages of god given laws clearly don't understand that humanity will only have it's progress hindered by basing its decisions on the sayings of an absolute(non human) authority
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history
"If it works it works" doesnt work too well in the ethereal
I mean, here on earth, if a murderer doesnt murder because he doesnt want to go to jail, whatever nothing happens it doesnt effect anyone. But if he's not murdering just because of his God then his god should know and understand his motives and recognize that this isnt a good person
i wasnt saying 'it works' for the would-be murderer, i was saying it works for the would-be murdered. i.e. it works better overall when people dont do bad things regardless of their motive
On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote:
well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist
what do you base this off?
I'd also like to ad that any attempt to remove "good" and "evil" form the map should be addressed by a really big black dude, preferably something like MW in Pulp Fiction, raping the shit out of the person in question and then he should be required to state if he still doesn't think evil exists.
you clearly have never heard of masochism
who said anything about taking "good" or "bad" out of the map
if you think that there are universally "good" or "bad" things you are clueless though
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
now i know that u r joking about this and all ... but catholicism is equally as bad as muslim they used to make people go die at wars that shouldnt have even happened in 1st place, they take money out of people just for them to be able to believe in it in 1st place WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT ?! oh yeah and 90% of their priests are fucking GAY PHEDOPHILES torchoring little boys
so... think about those thing next time u joke about this
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 11:24. Posts 7710
On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote:
If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one.
So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful.
if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history
uhhh wow how much history have you studied? religion has created far more evil and murder than anything else and it isn't even close
That isn't religion. That is mankind.
What you are saying is like saying that government has created far more oppression and terrorrism and censorship than anything else, and it isn't even close.
Because while you may be correct, it is completely irrelevant. It is just one side of the coin, and it's through the misuse of people committing evil deeds that it arises, not through the nature of the thing is itself.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
wtf is up with "that isnt religion that is mankind"...,thats like saying, automatic rifles were positive in our history.... i mean the people who murdered thousands with it, thats not an automatic rifle, that is mankind!!!
Religion is a mind numbing prefabricated belief system that spreads hatred and ignorance around the world.
Ket you are 100% wrong, the obscurantism 1000 years of absolute opression of any kind of scientific or social progress, that alone is much more worse than the crusades or the inquisition (which make religion evil in its core, but not necessarely that bad our historical progress as humans).... imagine mankind's technology in 1000 years !!!!, we may be immortal and teleport and weird shit, well that would be our present if it werent for religion.
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Svenman87 United States. Oct 10 2008 12:08. Posts 4636
lol idiots with power
err i mean religious people
I've given up against religious people. I cannot disprove faith yet sorry... COME ON HADRON COLLIDER!
This topic should be renamed "Do you believe in trolls?"
Would we still be having this discussion 'x' pages into the topic? Probably not.
I also love how people 'believe in god' etc etc... but for fuck sakes! YOU'D BELIEVE IN ZEUS IF YOU LIVED DURING THAT ERA AND THAT LOCATION! OR YOU'D BELIEVE IN THOR IF YOU LIVED DURING THAT ERA AND THAT LOCATION!
People laugh at Scientology, yet isn't Christianity and all other religions just as fucking crazy and magical as the next? It's all a big fucking fairy tail that idiots bought into because they fucking hated their own lives as peasants. 'IT SURE WOULD BE GREAT TO GO TO A GREAT PLACE LIKE HEAVEN, ESPECIALLY SINCE IM ON THE BOTTOM OF THE TOTEM POLL ATM!'
People are so arrogant not to see that shit. Religion is as pathetic as it's followers. Atheists can truly live their life freely and without doubt. All religious people do is squander their own life now 'in hopes' of eternal bliss [which is fubar anyways, happiness without sadness is not happiness].
Also everyone is right because no one can prove shit, doesn't that just suck? Well I have my bet still on no deity!
p.s. bring on the flames you cockmunchers
Last edit: 10/10/2008 12:25
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 12:33. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 11:01 Baal wrote:
lol @ Ket and travis
wtf is up with "that isnt religion that is mankind"...,thats like saying, automatic rifles were positive in our history.... i mean the people who murdered thousands with it, thats not an automatic rifle, that is mankind!!!
apparently u completely ignored the analogy that I posted.
Or do you think civilization would be better off without government?
Religion is a mind numbing prefabricated belief system that spreads hatred and ignorance around the world.
apparently you haven't studied religion much, that or you like stereotyping things to a retarded extreme.
Ket you are 100% wrong, the obscurantism 1000 years of absolute opression of any kind of scientific or social progress, that alone is much more worse than the crusades or the inquisition
Baal - what?
Firstly, Islam was way ahead of it's time regarding contributions to math, science, and medicine. As was ancient greece - which had a multitude of thriving religious beliefs. As was ancient Egypt, which was centered around religion.
Secondly, what you are talking about is corrupted religion. It has nothing to do with the original teachers of christianity or islam or etc.
When was the last time you actually read the direct teachings(DIRECT) of Jesus, or Thomas Aquinas, or Mohammed, or Buddha? I am guessing NEVER.
imagine mankind's technology in 1000 years !!!!, we may be immortal and teleport and weird shit, well that would be our present if it werent for religion.
Religion is here to remind us that that shit isn't actually all that important. and hopefully you realize it before you're on your deathbed. I hope all of you do.
None of you will ever find lasting happiness or peace in scientific advances.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
the DIRECT teachings of Jesus... hahahah holy fucking shit. Sooo relgion. The all powerful all knowing god creates man. Decides to give man free will - yet because he is all knowing and all powerful knows man will disobey his command of eating the apples and thus will sin, thus he knows mankind is doomed to hell yet he allows this anyway............ logic wins religion loses, does not exist.... GG
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 12:46. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 11:37 RonK1337 wrote:
the DIRECT teachings of Jesus... hahahah holy fucking shit. Sooo relgion.
explain yourself or realize you aren't arguing anything.
The all powerful all knowing god creates man. Decides to give man free will - yet because he is all knowing and all powerful knows man will disobey his command of eating the apples and thus will sin, thus he knows mankind is doomed to hell yet he allows this anyway............
If he didn't, in what way would it be "free will".
logic wins religion loses, does not exist.... GG
Ok firstly, for people who are too ignorant to realize, religion is not synonymous with christianity.
Secondly, I showed you the logic when replying to the quote before this one. Maybe it'd be helpful for you to realize that you don't understand everything.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
On October 10 2008 11:33 asdf2000 wrote:
apparently u completely ignored the analogy that I posted.
Or do you think civilization would be better off without government?
Im an anarchist
apparently you haven't studied religion much, that or you like stereotyping things to a retarded extreme.
Im from México, the most catholic country in the entire world, i were raised as a catholic, i took many classes and i went to highschool to a catholic school, so yeah ive studied religion, much more than you have.
Firstly, Islam was way ahead of it's time regarding contributions to math, science, and medicine. As was ancient greece - which had a multitude of thriving religious beliefs. As was ancient Egypt, which was centered around religion.
Its not Islam that contributed those, it was their civilization, the religion did not encourage the pursue of scientific knowledge, same with Greeks and Egypts, its NOT the religion what made the scientific improvements, nor encourage it.
When was the last time you actually read the direct teachings(DIRECT) of Jesus, or Thomas Aquinas, or Mohammed, or Buddha? I am guessing NEVER.
i already replied to your assumption that i dont know religion (in particular christianity), so your guess is wrong, i know about it more than you, ive lived with it and surrounded by it much more than you have.
Religion is here to remind us that that shit isn't actually all that important. and hopefully you realize it before you're on your deathbed. I hope all of you do.
None of you will ever find lasting happiness or peace in scientific advances.
You will find a better enviroment to develop in scientific and social advances, in a highly scientific and social community withouth stupid beliefs, there is peace and harmony (no wars for example), no irrational hatred towards other races etc, even if that doesnt grant you happiness, it is much easier to obtain it there than in the middle of hatred and war.
Religion isnt there to remind us that... religion is there to control sheep, i dont need to believe in fairy tales to cope with life or be happy, i am 100% happy and content with my life in my total disbelief of any kind of deities or spirituality, and not happy in a fake way that everyone says is happy, cuz i havent been happy all my life, but now i am and not because of external factors but i just found the answers i needed, and none of them needed religion.
On October 10 2008 11:33 asdf2000 wrote:
Religion is here to remind us that that shit isn't actually all that important. and hopefully you realize it before you're on your deathbed. I hope all of you do.
None of you will ever find lasting happiness or peace in scientific advances.
This is so fucked up to me. God created me right? So god created the conditions in which he knew I'd grow up(non-religious parents, non-religious area, etc) and then gave me a very analytical mind. I can't just believe in some random book because someone tells me to. It makes no sense.
I find it hard to believe that if there were an all powerful being that created everything that he would be so narcissistic to NEED my undying unquestioned love for him otherwise he'll punish my soul for eternity? That makes sense to religious people? So a convicted child rapist that "finds god" deserves to be in Heaven more than the Buddhist monk that devoted his whole life to peace and understanding that will just burn in hell forever because he was arbitrarily born on the other side of the planet?
What sense does that make? I really hope a religious person answers these questions for me, I'd love a perspective of someone from faith.
1) God is male.
2) His penis is the biggest.
3) Mary was a lucky girl.
That is all I am contributing to this debate.
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 13:12. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 11:58 Baal wrote:
Im an anarchist
So I take it that means yes, civilization would be better off without government. Fair enough, I can't challenge that. Actually, I tend to agree with anarchistic views. But they aren't reasonable
Im from México, the most catholic country in the entire world, i were raised as a catholic, i took many classes and i went to highschool to a catholic school, so yeah ive studied religion, much more than you have.
aaand... this is where I realize how pointless it is to try to debate you on any of this. you already know how much I have studied religion. amazing. guys, we have a prophet.
k I am done
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
On October 10 2008 09:21 lebowski wrote:
if you think that there are universally "good" or "bad" things you are clueless though
Because...?
well I think I already responded to that on the previous page in case you missed it
if I didn't make myself clear tell me where,I admit I didn't take too much time in that response
On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote:
well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist
what do you base this off?
well first of all you can easily identify that different societies have different ethics throughout history
For communities unable to feed themselves even cannibalism was acceptable ,with some restrictions.
If we don't base our search for what is good for ourselves to books of supposed divine origin,we will inevitably draw different conclusions because we don't have similar experiences or even the same intelligence to draw the same.
Most people will agree on some basic stuff,like that random murder is unethical,as that easily relates to self preservation and species preservation insticts. Most animals will do the same in a purely instictive way.
So what organised society is doing is to enforce a certain moral code and punish those who fail to comply with it.Those who believe that it's good that such a code forced to people should be influenced by metaphysical packages of god given laws clearly don't understand that humanity will only have it's progress hindered by basing its decisions on the sayings of an absolute(non human) authority
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
On October 09 2008 20:29 lebowski wrote:
the Big Bang, a generally accepted theory on the creation of the universe by most scientists today, involves both
time and space to be created with it.
I know this is kind of a lot to ask, but do you happen to have a source for this claim?
I skimmed through this book by hawking long ago and if I remember correctly he said something along the lines of "it wouldn't be useful to record history before there was anything around, so we can just say that time started when the big bang occured" That's different from what you're saying imo
also about what you said of "the space is getting larger as galaxies move farther apart" is confusing to me.. I imagine an infinite space that already was infinite from the start but just the objects in it are moving farther apart - is this wrong?
On October 10 2008 11:33 asdf2000 wrote:
Religion is here to remind us that that shit isn't actually all that important. and hopefully you realize it before you're on your deathbed. I hope all of you do.
None of you will ever find lasting happiness or peace in scientific advances.
This is so fucked up to me. God created me right?
To make it clear, I never said I believed in god. You don't have to believe in god or gods to be religious.
So god created the conditions in which he knew I'd grow up(non-religious parents, non-religious area, etc)and then gave me a very analytical mind.
God did not give you a very analytical mind, that is a manifestation of your free will.
I can't just believe in some random book because someone tells me to. It makes no sense.
I absolutely agree.
I find it hard to believe that if there were an all powerful being that created everything that he would be so narcissistic to NEED my undying unquestioned love for him otherwise he'll punish my soul for eternity?
He doesn't need it. He loves you regardless of what you do.
But you not loving him results in negative consequences. He isn't punishing you for not loving him, that's a bastardization of Jesus's teachings. (i have to assume u are talking about christianity)
So to re-iterate: the loving of god is for you, not for god. god is already with you and will always be, regardless of what you do.
That makes sense to religious people? So a convicted child rapist that "finds god" deserves to be in Heaven more than the Buddhist monk that devoted his whole life to peace and understanding that will just burn in hell forever because he was arbitrarily born on the other side of the planet?
Again, this is caused by more bastardizations of Jesus's teachings. I agree, that shit is very stupid. The bible is a collection of stories, I wouldn't take most of it literally.
God is personal. No doubt the Buddhist monk knows god, just in a different way. Surely they would both go to heaven.
9obviously I am speculating, but I am just sharing my understanding)
What sense does that make? I really hope a religious person answers these questions for me, I'd love a perspective of someone from faith.
faith is a gross term. most misunderstand it for "blind faith". In reality most of what we know is based on faith. How much of science do we just assume is correct without actually tsting it in our own personal experience?
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
asdf you are not precise in what you are saying. Knowing the future actions of your creation is not really granting it any free will.If god doesn't know the future he is not powerful,if he does know it there is no free will.
Religious people avoid this argument by returning to the proposition that logic is a flawed instrument and returning to faith, when actually logic is the only instrument that humans have.Even when they denounce it they are using it.
And it's really different to assume that the world isn't plotting against you when they announce research results about evolution,physics etc,than to accept the contents of a book of supposedly divine origin.
Also being religious without believing in god is something I've never heard of before,explain what you mean.
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
Not in any of the ways mankind can possibly conceive it. I don't know what the answers are, but I'm doubtless on what they aren't.
AWESOME mentally handicapped, slept with like 30 guys, meeting her mum on the first date, unprotected sex, 12 year old girls.FIST PUMP - YOU ARE A MAN, MY SON. -Byrensam
On October 10 2008 11:58 Baal wrote:
Im an anarchist
So I take it that means yes, civilization would be better off without government. Fair enough, I can't challenge that. Actually, I tend to agree with anarchistic views. But they aren't reasonable
Im from México, the most catholic country in the entire world, i were raised as a catholic, i took many classes and i went to highschool to a catholic school, so yeah ive studied religion, much more than you have.
aaand... this is where I realize how pointless it is to try to debate you on any of this. you already know how much I have studied religion. amazing. guys, we have a prophet.
k I am done
You just said that we dont need technolgy for happiness etc, then you say anarchism isnt reasonable... define ur thoughts Travis, i dont want u to justify that shit on another post but if u have that kind of though that happiness is the most vital thing in general (i agree), then anarchy is more than reasonable.
And dont be a jackass, you were the first one to assume i didnt know about religion didnt you? so now you blame me for giving u the same treatment?
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 14:08. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 12:58 lebowski wrote:
asdf you are not precise in what you are saying. Knowing the future actions of your creation is not really granting it any free will.
Howso?
If god is omniscient he is in the future, the past, and the present.
In what way does this destroy free will?
If god doesn't know the future he is not powerful,if he does know it there is no free will.
Again, why? Why does him knowing the future mean man has no free will.
Religious people avoid this argument by returning to the proposition that logic is a flawed instrument and returning to faith, when actually logic is the only instrument that humans have.Even when they denounce it they are using it.
religious parrots maybe
Also being religious without believing in god is something I've never heard of before,explain what you mean.
I am a buddhist. If you want more elaboration than that I will gladly give it.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 14:14. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 13:06 Baal wrote:
You just said that we dont need technolgy for happiness etc,
No material thing will give you lasting happiness
then you say anarchism isnt reasonable... define ur thoughts Travis
it's not reasonable in that the majority of humanity won't allow it.
And dont be a jackass, you were the first one to assume i didnt know about religion didnt you?
Well, you were stereotyping things to a retarded extreme.
so now you blame me for giving u the same treatment?
we said very different things
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
If God is omnisapient thus he knows the future, he knows your choices even before he creates you right? i mean he knows OJ simpson were going to kill her wife that day, he knew that a million years ago, yet he creates him and OJ kills his wife... then god sends him to hell.
Where is the free will travis.
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 14:42. Posts 2598
free will doesn't exist
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 14:43. Posts 2598
and neither does god
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 14:43. Posts 2598
especially any god of religious origins, if god does exist it isn't something imaginable obv, and probably shoudln't even be referred to as god since god implies certain characteristics
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 14:44. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 13:36 Baal wrote:
well ill take the argument.
If God is omnisapient thus he knows the future, he knows your choices even before he creates you right?
I am not sure that the view you have here is a correct way of looking at it, but for the sake of simplicity I will say yes. Yes, he knows your choices even before he creates you.
Where is the free will travis.
Still there, it didn't go anywhere.
What many people would suggest (god interceding so as to eliminate suffering) is actually what would remove free will from the equation.
The point is that god loves us enough to let us make our own mistakes. He didn't choose the mistakes we make - that is the free will.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
hey lebowski i am sorry I editted your post on accident and I can't bring it back. I have a reply posted now, though
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
Last edit: 10/10/2008 15:02
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EvilSky Czech Republic. Oct 10 2008 14:51. Posts 8918
Nope, I dont believe in santa claus either. I cant believe there is actually an argument here between supposedly bright online poker players, how can you not see religion is the biggest and best bluff in history...
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Alexa85 United States. Oct 10 2008 14:56. Posts 18
God how I understand IT is the context of all context.
On October 10 2008 13:36 Baal wrote:
well ill take the argument.
If God is omnisapient thus he knows the future, he knows your choices even before he creates you right?
I am not sure that the view you have here is a correct way of looking at it, but for the sake of simplicity I will say yes. Yes, he knows your choices even before he creates you.
Where is the free will travis.
Still there, it didn't go anywhere.
What many people would suggest (god interceding so as to eliminate suffering) is actually what would remove free will from the equation.
The point is that god loves us enough to let us make our own mistakes. He didn't choose the mistakes we make - that is the free will.
How was OJ free of his choice?, it doesnt matter what he does, he will kill his wife, he is "destined" to do so, and god knows it, even before he was born.
according to that, OJ simpson was a killer before he were born, and GOD made him and he will judge him upon actions he was meant to do, that makes no sense there is no freedom there.
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 15:03. Posts 7710
because free will requires an uncertain future,a future that can never be known ,a future based on the choices we make.
I disagree. I will give an example:
Let's say you have a buddy named Ted. Your buddy named Ted has decided he will either eat steak for dinner, or shrimp for dinner. Dinner is in a few hours. He is not sure which he will eat.
Meanwhile, you build a time machine. You go into the future, and you discover Ted eating steak for dinner. You then go back to when you built the time machine, and destroy the time machine.
In what way has Ted's free will disappeared?
If god loves us despite our shortcomings as you said it's because he created those as well.
I would say that god does not judge, god sees no shortcomings.
Also,as much as I prefer buddhism to christianity it also requires huge leaps of faith to accept its concepts.
Which concepts are those?
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
On October 10 2008 13:36 Baal wrote:
well ill take the argument.
If God is omnisapient thus he knows the future, he knows your choices even before he creates you right?
I am not sure that the view you have here is a correct way of looking at it, but for the sake of simplicity I will say yes. Yes, he knows your choices even before he creates you.
Where is the free will travis.
Still there, it didn't go anywhere.
What many people would suggest (god interceding so as to eliminate suffering) is actually what would remove free will from the equation.
The point is that god loves us enough to let us make our own mistakes. He didn't choose the mistakes we make - that is the free will.
How was OJ free of his choice?, it doesnt matter what he does, he will kill his wife, he is "destined" to do so, and god knows it, even before he was born.
Because he made the choice. I don't know how I can say this any more clear. God does not make the choice for him, he does.
You seem to assume that god's awareness of what is going to happen means he is the cause of how it is experienced.
according to that, OJ simpson was a killer before he were born, and GOD made him and he will judge him upon actions he was meant to do, that makes no sense there is no freedom there.
At this point I have to ask if you want a Christian definition of god or if you want my definition of a possible god because they are surely different things.
Look at it like this:
you are already in heaven.
you are already in hell.
you are on earth right now.
free will is the power to manifest your future. god gave you this power, and a setting. god does not interfere because to do so would be to deny your free will.
god is at the beginning of time and the end of time, but god always experiences for the first time. god is empty of judgement and labels and formed thought, because god experiences everything purely
at this point you probably no longer understand wtf im talking about
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 15:27. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 14:12 Baal wrote:
It did dissapear, he cannot choose shrimp, he has no choice, but to eat steak.
no
you are making some weird jump in logic that doesn't make sense(at least to me). you are forgetting that the experience of something - subjectively, is it's entire essence - subjectively.
you say "he has no choice, but to eat steak"
I say "he has a choice, and eats steak"
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
no wrong, and in the gods example is more clear because god MADE you.
God knows what u will do and he MADE you, how can he fucking judge what you do.
Or lets just make it simple, god knows ur gonig to hell cuz u will kill, so why bother with giving u life anyway? why not just create you and send u directly to hell?
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 15:46. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 14:30 Baal wrote:
no wrong, and in the gods example is more clear because god MADE you.
God knows what u will do and he MADE you, how can he fucking judge what you do.
I said that I do not believe god judges.
Or lets just make it simple, god knows ur gonig to hell cuz u will kill,
god knows ur going to hell cuz u will choose to kill
so why bother with giving u life anyway?
why not just create you and send u directly to hell?
Because god loves us all, and free will is what it is all about. Free will is the only means by which one can come to understand what is going on.
I do not believe hell is permanent. But maybe it is. Or maybe it doesn't exist. I don't know. Though personally I do believe in a hell of sorts.
But maybe hell is the result of free will. Maybe free will results in both good and evil, and evil leads to hell. And maybe to interrupt is to destroy the whole process.
To make it clear, for the most part in this thread, I haven't actually been speaking of my personal beliefs.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
yes, it seems you are defending a more traditional conception of god, and you are failing hard cuz there is no way to defend such a primitive and silly concept.
If you believe in hell (as in afterlife), then it wouldnt make sense to live if god already knows ur actions, he knows u will kill, so whats the god damn point for you to be born so u can only go to hell and that was decided even before u were born.... it would turn god in to a sadistic being.
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 16:11. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 14:57 Baal wrote:
If you believe in hell (as in afterlife), then it wouldnt make sense to live if god already knows ur actions, he knows u will kill, so whats the god damn point for you to be born so u can only go to hell and that was decided even before u were born.... it would turn god in to a sadistic being.
this assumes that each person is not a part of a greater scheme - that there is nothing going on other than individual experience.
it also assumes that we don't affect each other.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
4
Bigbobm United States. Oct 10 2008 16:11. Posts 5513
I wonder how many people were sacrificed in order to please some god.
What if just one of those people was capable of being a revolutionary inventory, explorer, or thinker? Faith in god = Lack of knowledge
Its time to stop thinking like a bitch and think smart like a poker player - ket
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 16:16. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 15:11 Bigbobm wrote:
I wonder how many people were sacrificed in order to please some god.
What if just one of those people was capable of being a revolutionary inventory, explorer, or thinker? Faith in god = Lack of knowledge
What knowledge is it, that disproves god.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
On October 10 2008 13:43 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
especially any god of religious origins, if god does exist it isn't something imaginable obv, and probably shoudln't even be referred to as god since god implies certain characteristics
I agree with this and the 2 posts you made above it.
AWESOME mentally handicapped, slept with like 30 guys, meeting her mum on the first date, unprotected sex, 12 year old girls.FIST PUMP - YOU ARE A MAN, MY SON. -Byrensam
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MayZerG United Kingdom. Oct 10 2008 16:33. Posts 2123
I refuse to believe in a God when there are thousands of people who starve to death everyday. Murderer's, sick child rapists and peadophiles, terrorists etc. If God was so powerful he would do something about it.
On October 10 2008 14:57 Baal wrote:
If you believe in hell (as in afterlife), then it wouldnt make sense to live if god already knows ur actions, he knows u will kill, so whats the god damn point for you to be born so u can only go to hell and that was decided even before u were born.... it would turn god in to a sadistic being.
this assumes that each person is not a part of a greater scheme - that there is nothing going on other than individual experience.
it also assumes that we don't affect each other.
so im guessing u stopped defending the traditional God now and ur talking about your own beliefs am i righ?
ok atleast that would be a bit more reasonable and slightly less stupid, so a bigger scheme like what?
On October 10 2008 14:57 Baal wrote:
If you believe in hell (as in afterlife), then it wouldnt make sense to live if god already knows ur actions, he knows u will kill, so whats the god damn point for you to be born so u can only go to hell and that was decided even before u were born.... it would turn god in to a sadistic being.
this assumes that each person is not a part of a greater scheme - that there is nothing going on other than individual experience.
it also assumes that we don't affect each other.
so im guessing u stopped defending the traditional God now and ur talking about your own beliefs am i righ?
ok atleast that would be a bit more reasonable and slightly less stupid, so a bigger scheme like what?
No, I didn't stop.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
all this ever comes down to is a debate as to whether or not there is "free will"
im pretty secure in my knowledge that everything is pre-determined
every action has a calculated outcome, no matter that we cant calculate it ourselves with our primitive technology. Even down to the neurons firing in my brain, with an advanced enough system it could know what my choice will be before I do
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 17:01. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 15:55 devon06atX wrote:
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel."
- Ambrose Bierce
how do you know if one has knowledge or not?
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 17:16. Posts 2598
asdf2000 are you arguing a specific viewpoint?
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 17:20. Posts 2598
about free will - you are born into a setting that you have no control over, as well as having no control over your genetic makeup. past experiences and genetic makeup are the only things that effect your decisions, neither of which you ever had any choice over from the beginning, since after birth you learn from what you have no control over and make decisions based on that, then making more decisions based on past experiences that you've never had any choice over etc.
i dont see the free will tbh
On October 10 2008 15:30 Gawuss wrote:
"Because god loves us all"
I just hate when someone says that.
I'm an atheist btw.
why do u hate that?
God loves us all. So what? It reminds me of this american (no offence, it's just a stereotype) "deep faith" in God, and saying that he loves us all, that Jesus is our friend and so on. It's like a book for children with a lot of pictures with cute and lovely animals, beautiful nature, some happy magic creatures etc. that in reality is a made up bullshit.
It ONLY sounds/looks nice, cute or whatever.
God loves us all people, let's pray to him and be his friends ! Praise the Lord folks and you will meet him and all those little angels in heaven ! THIS IS SOOOO CUTE - WE ARE SOO RELIGIOUS AND WE LOVE OUR GOD BECAUSE WE ARE TOLD TO DO SO
P.S. I still don't know if you believe in all this stuff but seriously wtf..."God loves us all" ?!
When people ask: What nationality is this guy raking in all the pots? The answer invariably comes back Poland, Poland. Again and again - Karma
On October 10 2008 14:57 Baal wrote:
If you believe in hell (as in afterlife), then it wouldnt make sense to live if god already knows ur actions, he knows u will kill, so whats the god damn point for you to be born so u can only go to hell and that was decided even before u were born.... it would turn god in to a sadistic being.
this assumes that each person is not a part of a greater scheme - that there is nothing going on other than individual experience.
it also assumes that we don't affect each other.
so im guessing u stopped defending the traditional God now and ur talking about your own beliefs am i righ?
ok atleast that would be a bit more reasonable and slightly less stupid, so a bigger scheme like what?
No, I didn't stop.
Well then you totally dodged what i said... i said should we be born then, if god knows if we will go to heaven or hell why bother giving us life, its meaningless it wont change anything.
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1
MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 17:24. Posts 2598
On October 10 2008 16:20 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
about free will - you are born into a setting that you have no control over, as well as having no control over your genetic makeup. past experiences and genetic makeup are the only things that effect your decisions, neither of which you ever had any choice over from the beginning, since after birth you learn from what you have no control over and make decisions based on that, then making more decisions based on past experiences that you've never had any choice over etc.
i dont see the free will tbh
of course there is the illusion of free will, and you should still act as if there is free will just incase obv
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KeanuReaver United States. Oct 10 2008 17:36. Posts 2022
yeah i believe in god
i also believe that belief in god is a matter of faith, not logic
which im sure a lot of people hate but, coincidence or not, a lot of the difficult times i've had growing up were helped through prayer and faith. whether it be being sent to a foster home then to my grandmothers care or me spending a lot of my young life homeless or even saving the house through a (relatively) big tourney score a week before foreclosure. i understand all the arguments for and against a creator and without faith im sure i'd be agnostic.
i also think people severly overestimate our own scientific understanding. i'd love to see where the scientific community stands on a lot of these issues 500 years from now.
and the endurance required for MMA, which has actions like punching and kicking bone and muscle with 1000-2500 PSI. - Taco
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MadeInPolanD Poland. Oct 10 2008 17:43. Posts 1383
PA obv. Why there are any other votes? wtf?
Make it rain$$$
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 17:45. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 16:20 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
about free will - you are born into a setting that you have no control over, as well as having no control over your genetic makeup. past experiences and genetic makeup are the only things that effect your decisions, neither of which you ever had any choice over from the beginning, since after birth you learn from what you have no control over and make decisions based on that, then making more decisions based on past experiences that you've never had any choice over etc.
i dont see the free will tbh
This is how I used to see things. Now I see them differently. It is so hard to explain. I would try anyways but I almost never come out making sense to people. But anyways.
I don't see free will as in the ability to directly make free choice - I see it as the ability to change your future by using your mind to be aware in the present moment. It's hard to elaborate on it, since I doubt we have the same view regarding the nature of existence. I do not believe consciousness arises solely as a result of interactions of matter.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
Last edit: 10/10/2008 17:51
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 17:46. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 16:16 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
asdf2000 are you arguing a specific viewpoint?
I was not, I really was just interested in maybe opening up some alternate viewpoints for people.
I will take a buddhist standpoint from here out though.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
Last edit: 10/10/2008 17:53
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 17:47. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 14:57 Baal wrote:
If you believe in hell (as in afterlife), then it wouldnt make sense to live if god already knows ur actions, he knows u will kill, so whats the god damn point for you to be born so u can only go to hell and that was decided even before u were born.... it would turn god in to a sadistic being.
this assumes that each person is not a part of a greater scheme - that there is nothing going on other than individual experience.
it also assumes that we don't affect each other.
so im guessing u stopped defending the traditional God now and ur talking about your own beliefs am i righ?
ok atleast that would be a bit more reasonable and slightly less stupid, so a bigger scheme like what?
No, I didn't stop.
Well then you totally dodged what i said... i said should we be born then, if god knows if we will go to heaven or hell why bother giving us life, its meaningless it wont change anything.
I didn't dodge it I directly replied to it. There is really no point to us going any further regarding that, I guess.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 17:50. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 15:30 Gawuss wrote:
"Because god loves us all"
I just hate when someone says that.
I'm an atheist btw.
why do u hate that?
God loves us all. So what? It reminds me of this american (no offence, it's just a stereotype) "deep faith" in God, and saying that he loves us all, that Jesus is our friend and so on. It's like a book for children with a lot of pictures with cute and lovely animals, beautiful nature, some happy magic creatures etc. that in reality is a made up bullshit.
It ONLY sounds/looks nice, cute or whatever.
God loves us all people, let's pray to him and be his friends ! Praise the Lord folks and you will meet him and all those little angels in heaven ! THIS IS SOOOO CUTE - WE ARE SOO RELIGIOUS AND WE LOVE OUR GOD BECAUSE WE ARE TOLD TO DO SO
P.S. I still don't know if you believe in all this stuff but seriously wtf..."God loves us all" ?!
The point is that god loves you. That's why the religions emphasize it. So that people understand that god loves you.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 17:56. Posts 2598
faith is ridiculous, believing something with no justification.
if you applied that concept to other parts of life you would be fucked up (believing something w/ no justification)
I'm assuming you apply logic to all other parts of life but for some reason when the afterlife is concerned logic randomly goes out the window?
there is as much a reason to have faith in heaven or whatever as to have faith that if you walk off a cliff you will float
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vltava United States. Oct 10 2008 17:58. Posts 1742
On October 10 2008 03:13 pinbaLL wrote:
PA can suck himself
Pics and vids please so I can fap nonstop for three days and then die a happy man.
The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action.
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 18:00. Posts 7710
To mez:
who are you talking to?
you realize that most of what people are taught in school they take on faith?
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
Last edit: 10/10/2008 18:01
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:03. Posts 2598
So you think faith is a good thing then?
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:03. Posts 2598
wasn't talking to anyone in particular just saw something about faith
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:10. Posts 2598
And I don't think the school faith thing your talking about is even close to the same argument. The religious faith is choosing to believe and totally discount logical thought. What I am taught in school is that some guy conquered whatever in 1502 and I can choose to believe it or not to believe it, but either way I am not discounting logical thought
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 18:12. Posts 7710
I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful.
Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.
These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith.
Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:12. Posts 2598
Obviously believing what you're told in school is the logical thing to do, not believing what you're told in school would in fact be the illogical choice, which is what i'm arguing against. you can only make decisions based on the best information you have, and in every circumstance in my life i use logic for that.
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:15. Posts 2598
I think faith is ridiculous in the sense that people take it as justification for being illogical. If you see a bathroom sign it would be logical to assume that a bathroom is nearby.
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.
oh god travis what in the hell are you dong, comparing faith into a bathroom sign with faith in a god?. you by experience know that there is usually a bathroom when a sign indicates it, we dont by experience know that god exist, its a random illogical though that goes against reason.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
1
MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:22. Posts 2598
Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
Almost surely what leads them to believe in a higher power is who they are brought up by, and I don't think they are stupid I just think what they believe in is not the truth. Why shouldn't we at least offer them new information and then let them decide?
and i'm sure if i had their experiences i would be like them
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 18:25. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:15 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
I think faith is ridiculous in the sense that people take it as justification for being illogical.
I agree. But logic is based on understanding of nature. The primary source of one's understanding of nature is their experiences.
I am an intelligent, logical person. Yet some of the paths of logic I take do not make any sense to other intelligent, logical people. It is because I have a different understanding of things than they do.
If I was to say god speaks to me, directly - almost all of you would believe I was incorrect. Yet, what basis would any of you have for believing so? None, other than beliefs that have been cemented - a type of faith.
If you see a bathroom sign it would be logical to assume that a bathroom is nearby.
You picked the worst of my bad examples. I was attempting to illustrate a point.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 18:26. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.
newsflash, I don't know what you're talking about.
Is this supposed to be a reply to what you quoted?
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 18:29. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:19 devon06atX wrote:
I want you to know that I'm not against religion. I think its a waste of time, yes. but if it makes YOU happier, a better person, whatever, then essentially its a good thing, right? what I am against is when people truly believe that there is a god, that jesus is his SON, and that woman are made out of a rib stolen from adam and speak it as OMG THIS IS TRUTH, HOW DARE THEE. oh ya, and that we're all on this un-perfect world due to some snake tricking good old adam to eat an apple. c'mon....
So do I. It makes me sad when people take obvious metaphors literally.
I just wish that all the time and resources that have been spent on religions can be used for things that really matter. technology which could lead to a possibly cleaner environment. social programs for the needy. hell, sports arena's for our youth. anything that actually has an x to y ratio of civil utility. anything.
so the question is trav, do you believe in santa? or is that simply too ridiculous to believe?
You got me, I don't believe in Santa. You win.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:31. Posts 2598
Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.
the problem with all of these that you were arguing is that it is LOGICAL for us to believe that a bathroom sign leads to a bathroom that calculators work correctly that nasa landed on the moon and that we've been to space n stuff
the difference between all of these and religion is that it is ILLOGICAL to believe that god in the christian sense exists
that was like the only thing i was trying to say
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:31. Posts 2598
so your examples of faith were totally misguided and not relevant at all
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 18:33. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:22 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
Almost surely what leads them to believe in a higher power is who they are brought up by,
There is a difference between mimicry, genuine belief, and understanding. I would say that who they are brought up by is very influential regarding religion, but mostly leads to mimicry and genuine belief.
Why shouldn't we at least offer them new information and then let them decide?
Maybe
and i'm sure if i had their experiences i would be like them
Then why be so convinced that you, with your experiences, are correct?
I mean, I do think it is good to be confident in what you believe. But I think it's bad to close off to alternate possibility.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:36. Posts 2598
my family is loosely christian, i've even been to church camp when i was younger. that shit is brainwashing.
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:39. Posts 2598
Why be so convinced my experiences are correct?
Cause i'm smarter than everyone in the world
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:39. Posts 2598
and obviously its sorta impossible for me to believe that what i believe is false, lol
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 18:40. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:36 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
my family is loosely christian, i've even been to church camp when i was younger. that shit is brainwashing.
I was just trying to make a point with that "taken on faith" stuff. I will try again a different way:
Many of those who are religious are essentially brainwashed, yes. Those people are irrelevant to me.
Many of the others - they see existence a different way than most atheists/agnostics/etc. They interpret things differently. This leads to a different type of understanding. Just because this type of understanding is different, does not mean it is wrong.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
1
MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:41. Posts 2598
and I am not so sure I am closed minded, I may be closed minded now, but only because i've explored the christian religion pretty well, as well as done research on the subject and can say firmly that with all the information i have gained it is fairly obvious that god, especially in any religious sense, does not exist.
I think religion can be beneficial to people, but i think as a whole religion is a terrible thing for society.
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 18:45. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:41 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
and I am not so sure I am closed minded, I may be closed minded now, but only because i've explored the christian religion pretty well, as well as done research on the subject and can say firmly that with all the information i have gained it is fairly obvious that god, especially in any religious sense, does not exist.
Let me assure you, from personal experience, that beliefs can change radically any time. As someone who doesn't believe in free will, you should agree with this.
I think religion can be beneficial to people, but i think as a whole religion is a terrible thing for society.
I think society is a terrible thing for religion.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:46. Posts 2598
Many of the others - they see existence a different way than most atheists/agnostics/etc. They interpret things differently. This leads to a different type of understanding. Just because this type of understanding is different, does not mean it is wrong.
trying to counter this but i dont see what is going on here ~_~ not sure what u are arguing or what i am arguing
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:
I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful.
Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.
These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith.
Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools.
Those are retarded examples, we can determine whether or not the bathroom sign leads to the bathroom, we have evidence that we landed on the moon, we've used the calculator or a calculator before and can easily determine if it works, DNA is material and can be studied and examined, as can germs. That's not the same in even the remotest sense in faith that an omnipotent omniscient immaterial entity exists and it can never be proven or tested.
AWESOME mentally handicapped, slept with like 30 guys, meeting her mum on the first date, unprotected sex, 12 year old girls.FIST PUMP - YOU ARE A MAN, MY SON. -Byrensam
but it is wrong, they both cannot be right (atheists and theists).
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 18:50. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:46 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
Many of the others - they see existence a different way than most atheists/agnostics/etc. They interpret things differently. This leads to a different type of understanding. Just because this type of understanding is different, does not mean it is wrong.
trying to counter this but i dont see what is going on here ~_~ not sure what u are arguing or what i am arguing
That's ok. At least you are awesome.
The only thing im really trying to say is to try to always be open to new ideas and new ways of looking at things.
Try to never decide you've figured something out completely, until you are sure you have figured out everything completely.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
Last edit: 10/10/2008 19:06
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 18:52. Posts 2598
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.
about this Baal,you do realise that if freedom of choice doesn't actually exist judging the murderer is really pointless and I mean that in the sense of pointing fingers.What's not pointless is to try to discourage the rest of the society from doing something similar by punishing him.Of course justice exists for several other reasons too
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 19:05. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:
I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful.
Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.
These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith.
Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools.
Those are retarded examples, we can determine whether or not the bathroom sign leads to the bathroom, we have evidence that we landed on the moon, we've used the calculator or a calculator before and can easily determine if it works, DNA is material and can be studied and examined, as can germs. That's not the same in even the remotest sense in faith that an omnipotent omniscient immaterial entity exists and it can never be proven or tested.
I didn't say it was the same. I was trying to illustrate a point about the nature and use of faith, but obviously I failed miserably.
And I think some would argue that god can be observed, god can be felt. But it is subjective, not objective.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.
about this Baal,you do realise that if freedom of choice doesn't actually exist judging the murderer is really pointless and I mean that in the sense of pointing fingers.What's not pointless is to try to discourage the rest of the society from doing something similar by punishing him.Of course justice exists for several other reasons too
i never claimed that free will does not exist, i mean we could get anal and philosophical and saying we are just a product of our experienes as slight as they are but its pointless to discuss such a sophist topic.
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:
I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful.
Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.
These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith.
Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools.
Those are retarded examples, we can determine whether or not the bathroom sign leads to the bathroom, we have evidence that we landed on the moon, we've used the calculator or a calculator before and can easily determine if it works, DNA is material and can be studied and examined, as can germs. That's not the same in even the remotest sense in faith that an omnipotent omniscient immaterial entity exists and it can never be proven or tested.
I didn't say it was the same. I was trying to illustrate a point about the nature and use of faith, but obviously I failed miserably.
And I think some would argue that god can be observed, god can be felt. But it is subjective, not objective.
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:
I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful.
Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.
These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith.
Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools.
Those are retarded examples, we can determine whether or not the bathroom sign leads to the bathroom, we have evidence that we landed on the moon, we've used the calculator or a calculator before and can easily determine if it works, DNA is material and can be studied and examined, as can germs. That's not the same in even the remotest sense in faith that an omnipotent omniscient immaterial entity exists and it can never be proven or tested.
I didn't say it was the same. I was trying to illustrate a point about the nature and use of faith, but obviously I failed miserably.
And I think some would argue that god can be observed, god can be felt. But it is subjective, not objective.
most people can also feel that they are the best poker players in the world getting unlucky all the time
I doubt that this or god can be observed though,it's just a matter of being precise and accurate with your observations.
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
Last edit: 10/10/2008 19:13
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 19:14. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:
I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful.
Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.
These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith.
Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools.
Those are retarded examples, we can determine whether or not the bathroom sign leads to the bathroom, we have evidence that we landed on the moon, we've used the calculator or a calculator before and can easily determine if it works, DNA is material and can be studied and examined, as can germs. That's not the same in even the remotest sense in faith that an omnipotent omniscient immaterial entity exists and it can never be proven or tested.
I didn't say it was the same. I was trying to illustrate a point about the nature and use of faith, but obviously I failed miserably.
And I think some would argue that god can be observed, god can be felt. But it is subjective, not objective.
how can you observe god?
How can I observe god? Or how can you observe god? Or how could Gandhi observe god?
Fasting would probably be a good starting point.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 19:16. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:
I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful.
Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.
These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith.
Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools.
Those are retarded examples, we can determine whether or not the bathroom sign leads to the bathroom, we have evidence that we landed on the moon, we've used the calculator or a calculator before and can easily determine if it works, DNA is material and can be studied and examined, as can germs. That's not the same in even the remotest sense in faith that an omnipotent omniscient immaterial entity exists and it can never be proven or tested.
I didn't say it was the same. I was trying to illustrate a point about the nature and use of faith, but obviously I failed miserably.
And I think some would argue that god can be observed, god can be felt. But it is subjective, not objective.
most people can also feel that they are the best poker players in the world getting unlucky all the time
people can feel lots of things
I doubt that this or god can be observed though,it's just a matter of being precise and accurate with your observations.
I don't understand what you are saying.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.
about this Baal,you do realise that if freedom of choice doesn't actually exist judging the murderer is really pointless and I mean that in the sense of pointing fingers.What's not pointless is to try to discourage the rest of the society from doing something similar by punishing him.Of course justice exists for several other reasons too
i never claimed that free will does not exist, i mean we could get anal and philosophical and saying we are just a product of our experienes as slight as they are but its pointless to discuss such a sophist topic.
it's not sophist at all,the greatest control mechanism that the christian religion brought upon the western world is the concept of sin
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 19:19. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.
about this Baal,you do realise that if freedom of choice doesn't actually exist judging the murderer is really pointless and I mean that in the sense of pointing fingers.What's not pointless is to try to discourage the rest of the society from doing something similar by punishing him.Of course justice exists for several other reasons too
i never claimed that free will does not exist, i mean we could get anal and philosophical and saying we are just a product of our experienes as slight as they are but its pointless to discuss such a sophist topic.
it's not sophist at all,the greatest control mechanism that the christian religion brought upon the western world is the concept of sin
Do you think Karma is a control mechanism as well?
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
1
Feiticeira United Kingdom. Oct 10 2008 19:20. Posts 3047
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.
about this Baal,you do realise that if freedom of choice doesn't actually exist judging the murderer is really pointless and I mean that in the sense of pointing fingers.What's not pointless is to try to discourage the rest of the society from doing something similar by punishing him.Of course justice exists for several other reasons too
i never claimed that free will does not exist, i mean we could get anal and philosophical and saying we are just a product of our experienes as slight as they are but its pointless to discuss such a sophist topic.
it's not sophist at all,the greatest control mechanism that the christian religion brought upon the western world is the concept of sin
while definitely a control mechanism (especially in Catholicism), the concept of sin predates Christianity.
The weird thing is I think McCain will win this. Im 100% certain Obama wont be elected and you guys can mark my words - Sheitan
1
sniderstyle United States. Oct 10 2008 19:21. Posts 2046
say what you want about the tenants of Christianity, at least its an ethos
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.
about this Baal,you do realise that if freedom of choice doesn't actually exist judging the murderer is really pointless and I mean that in the sense of pointing fingers.What's not pointless is to try to discourage the rest of the society from doing something similar by punishing him.Of course justice exists for several other reasons too
i never claimed that free will does not exist, i mean we could get anal and philosophical and saying we are just a product of our experienes as slight as they are but its pointless to discuss such a sophist topic.
it's not sophist at all,the greatest control mechanism that the christian religion brought upon the western world is the concept of sin
Do you think Karma is a control mechanism as well?
I think buddhism is a much more esoteric religion, I am not really familiar with the many branches of buddhism tbh or if there is actually salvation from one's Karma in every one of them,there are similarities with the concept of sin but I don't believe they are very relevant
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
1
MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 19:35. Posts 2598
I sure hope people do not draw their morals from the bible
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 19:35. Posts 7710
[quote]
I doubt that this or god can be observed though,it's just a matter of being precise and accurate with your observations.
I don't understand what you are saying.
in simple words, god could never be objectively observed and subjective observations are useless
Subjective observations are useless? So you learn nothing on your own? Or you get a 2nd opinion on everything?
I can't knock what you're saying (surely you didn't intend to come off as radical as it sounds to me).
However, the view is terribly materialistic, which I disagree with.
I am talking about the objectivity of proof,subjective proof is a paradox isn't it?
While talking with god in a regular basis might be interesting to me,I doubt the rest of the world would or should give a damn when they can observe nothing
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
Last edit: 10/10/2008 19:43
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 19:42. Posts 2598
On October 10 2008 18:35 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
I sure hope people do not draw their morals from the bible
...
are they saying you don't think they do? You are staggeringly mistaken and incredibly naive.
i have no idea what u are referring to here or anything, and dont b mean i know im naive but so are you
... um, it was a direct response to your post.
'I sure hope people do not draw their morals from the bible' suggests you would be suprised to discover they do. Coming from a citizen of the United States I would wonder how that could be possible, short of having never watched television or spoken to a living human being.
I agree that people should not be reading the bible literally for moral guidance, given that it is an arcane text with many passages that simply cannot be practically applied in any civil, modern society, but it's quite clear that many people do.
The weird thing is I think McCain will win this. Im 100% certain Obama wont be elected and you guys can mark my words - Sheitan
1
Feiticeira United Kingdom. Oct 10 2008 19:48. Posts 3047
I'd like to know where I'm being naive though.
The weird thing is I think McCain will win this. Im 100% certain Obama wont be elected and you guys can mark my words - Sheitan
1
MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 19:49. Posts 2598
U obviously have no idea what i meant. People definitely believe that they draw their morals from the bible but infact do not, or else things would be very different.
THEY DO NOT DRAW THEIR MORALS FROM THE BIBLE THEY ONLY THINK THEY DO
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:
I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful.
Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.
These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith.
Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools.
Those are retarded examples, we can determine whether or not the bathroom sign leads to the bathroom, we have evidence that we landed on the moon, we've used the calculator or a calculator before and can easily determine if it works, DNA is material and can be studied and examined, as can germs. That's not the same in even the remotest sense in faith that an omnipotent omniscient immaterial entity exists and it can never be proven or tested.
I didn't say it was the same. I was trying to illustrate a point about the nature and use of faith, but obviously I failed miserably.
And I think some would argue that god can be observed, god can be felt. But it is subjective, not objective.
how can you observe god?
How can I observe god? Or how can you observe god? Or how could Gandhi observe god?
Fasting would probably be a good starting point.
isnt "you" clear enough? how can you travis observe god.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
1
MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 19:50. Posts 2598
We are all naive, and you are especially naive if you don't know that
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 19:50. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.
about this Baal,you do realise that if freedom of choice doesn't actually exist judging the murderer is really pointless and I mean that in the sense of pointing fingers.What's not pointless is to try to discourage the rest of the society from doing something similar by punishing him.Of course justice exists for several other reasons too
i never claimed that free will does not exist, i mean we could get anal and philosophical and saying we are just a product of our experienes as slight as they are but its pointless to discuss such a sophist topic.
it's not sophist at all,the greatest control mechanism that the christian religion brought upon the western world is the concept of sin
Do you think Karma is a control mechanism as well?
I think buddhism is a much more esoteric religion, I am not really familiar with the many branches of buddhism tbh or if there is actually salvation from one's Karma in every one of them,
There is. I cannot prove it, it is taught that if you choose to follow a buddhist path you must take it on faith that that practice will lead you to enlightenment. At a certain point (perhaps one month - perhaps 50 years) you will understand that it truly will. So, I am taking this on faith to an extent. Though in many ways, I see how it is true.
there are similarities with the concept of sin but I don't believe they are very relevant
It is true because the direct teachings of jesus, and the teachings of buddha, both have the same goal: the elimination of suffering.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
Last edit: 10/10/2008 19:56
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 19:51. Posts 2598
ur wording was very bad which is why i was confused. are they saying you don't think they do? that is what confused me
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asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 19:54. Posts 7710
On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:
I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful.
Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.
These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith.
Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?
Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools.
Those are retarded examples, we can determine whether or not the bathroom sign leads to the bathroom, we have evidence that we landed on the moon, we've used the calculator or a calculator before and can easily determine if it works, DNA is material and can be studied and examined, as can germs. That's not the same in even the remotest sense in faith that an omnipotent omniscient immaterial entity exists and it can never be proven or tested.
I didn't say it was the same. I was trying to illustrate a point about the nature and use of faith, but obviously I failed miserably.
And I think some would argue that god can be observed, god can be felt. But it is subjective, not objective.
how can you observe god?
How can I observe god? Or how can you observe god? Or how could Gandhi observe god?
Fasting would probably be a good starting point.
isnt "you" clear enough? how can you travis observe god.
I could still my mind through various means, it would take some time. And I would wait for messages from him. Might get some, might not.
I don't got what it takes to do that yet though. And if I do it won't be to wait for messages from god.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
1
Feiticeira United Kingdom. Oct 10 2008 19:54. Posts 3047
On October 10 2008 18:51 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
ur wording was very bad which is why i was confused. are they saying you don't think they do? that is what confused me
...
are you high? My wordin-- fuck it. This is why I get annoyed responding to people on LP.
The weird thing is I think McCain will win this. Im 100% certain Obama wont be elected and you guys can mark my words - Sheitan
1
asdf2000 United States. Oct 10 2008 19:57. Posts 7710
I agree, mez's latest posts have confused me. But I just figured my posts probably confuse alot of people too. Not sure, though.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
1
MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 19:57. Posts 2598
quit being such an asshole, seriously wtf is your problem
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MezmerizePLZ United States. Oct 10 2008 19:58. Posts 2598
my last post is dumb forums are supposed to do this
On October 10 2008 18:51 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
ur wording was very bad which is why i was confused. are they saying you don't think they do? that is what confused me
...
are you high? My wordin-- fuck it. This is why I get annoyed responding to people on LP.
yes! fuck it! that's your answer to everything mr Feticeira! Get a job sir!
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
On October 10 2008 09:21 lebowski wrote:
if you think that there are universally "good" or "bad" things you are clueless though
Because...?
well I think I already responded to that on the previous page in case you missed it
if I didn't make myself clear tell me where,I admit I didn't take too much time in that response
On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote:
well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist
what do you base this off?
well first of all you can easily identify that different societies have different ethics throughout history
For communities unable to feed themselves even cannibalism was acceptable ,with some restrictions.
If we don't base our search for what is good for ourselves to books of supposed divine origin,we will inevitably draw different conclusions because we don't have similar experiences or even the same intelligence to draw the same.
Most people will agree on some basic stuff,like that random murder is unethical,as that easily relates to self preservation and species preservation insticts. Most animals will do the same in a purely instictive way.
So what organised society is doing is to enforce a certain moral code and punish those who fail to comply with it.Those who believe that it's good that such a code forced to people should be influenced by metaphysical packages of god given laws clearly don't understand that humanity will only have it's progress hindered by basing its decisions on the sayings of an absolute(non human) authority
Just because moral values have differed throughout diffrent times and cultures doesnt disprove the idea that there actually exists values of good and bad, either as natural phenomenons or just as objective facts indenpendent of thinking human beings. Maybe these truths of moral right or wrong are just very hard to acess and thus many have just come close or missed completely.
To completely deny their existence just because man have interpred or imagined them diffrently seems dumb, its kinda like trying to disprove the existence of god because theres are many diffrent views on what god actually is. The possitive aspects of morality for the survival of the species is an equal unsatisfying argument. Just because the moral idea of right and wrong has had benefits for our species survival doesnt mean its make believe.
Oh and I havent read even half of this thread but all I can say, as a for many years rabid atheist, that I think it is pretty arrogant to completely disregard the idea of the existence of God. I still dont really believe in god, but fuck man, we really dont know anything so what makes us so sure an omnipotent being/force/whatever doesnt exist? Just try and realize your own fucking lack of knowledge. Scientists have some idea of how the universe works up until miliseconds before the big bang, beyond that we have no fucking clue what so ever.
Your average joe doesnt even know how a refrigerator works, yet people continue to make statements about the certainty of Gods nonexistence. Fuck that man, try to be humble and realize you are just a completely clueless fart in the universe and atleast keep the possebility of gods existence open.
On October 10 2008 09:21 lebowski wrote:
if you think that there are universally "good" or "bad" things you are clueless though
Because...?
well I think I already responded to that on the previous page in case you missed it
if I didn't make myself clear tell me where,I admit I didn't take too much time in that response
On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote:
well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist
what do you base this off?
well first of all you can easily identify that different societies have different ethics throughout history
For communities unable to feed themselves even cannibalism was acceptable ,with some restrictions.
If we don't base our search for what is good for ourselves to books of supposed divine origin,we will inevitably draw different conclusions because we don't have similar experiences or even the same intelligence to draw the same.
Most people will agree on some basic stuff,like that random murder is unethical,as that easily relates to self preservation and species preservation insticts. Most animals will do the same in a purely instictive way.
So what organised society is doing is to enforce a certain moral code and punish those who fail to comply with it.Those who believe that it's good that such a code forced to people should be influenced by metaphysical packages of god given laws clearly don't understand that humanity will only have it's progress hindered by basing its decisions on the sayings of an absolute(non human) authority
Just because moral values have differed throughout diffrent times and cultures doesnt disprove the idea that there actually exists values of good and bad, either as natural phenomenons or just as objective facts indenpendent of thinking human beings. Maybe these truths of moral right or wrong are just very hard to acess and thus many have just come close or missed completely.
To completely deny their existence just because man have interpred or imagined them diffrently seems dumb, its kinda like trying to disprove the existence of god because theres are many diffrent views on what god actually is. The possitive aspects of morality for the survival of the species is an equal unsatisfying argument. Just because the moral idea of right and wrong has had benefits for our species survival doesnt mean its make believe.
You lost me there Saki. Moral values that exist without the need of humans thinking about them? Like what?I can't imagine justice existing as a concept without humans,so I 'm not sure what you mean.
I didn't say that good and bad doesn't exist,I pointed out that it differs from person to person and that this is a natural thing to be happening,as long as each individual forms his own set of rules and doesn't take them from religion packages. Because when people adopt the morals of a religion it's obvious that they won't really disagree in much if they are strict about it.
To speculate that humanity has probably missed the ultimate morality is also irrelevant because even if it existed,how could it ever be proved that it is indeed the most amazing of them all? Everyone thinks that his own morals are the best anyway,otherwise he would have changed it.
What I perceive as good is closely related to my influences, my analytical capability and what it helps me to understand as my best interest.
Since these are different for most people,it's obvious that a universal definition of good and evil is out of the question if we're not talking about religious people or tolkien books.
To assume that there is pure sense of justice,or a divine sense of right and wrong somewhere waiting to be grasped by failing humans is entirely fictional and it misses the insight on how these concepts were developed through the genealogy of ethics.Of course all these only apply if you don't believe in god.
I refered to some common ethical standards that correlate to the instinct of survival/survival of the species not to prove that they are fake because they are useful in forming societies,but to point out why they are really that common in many religions. A religion advocating people randomly killing each other would have no purpose at all,it would unite nobody and it could exploit nobody.
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
On October 10 2008 09:21 lebowski wrote:
if you think that there are universally "good" or "bad" things you are clueless though
Because...?
well I think I already responded to that on the previous page in case you missed it
if I didn't make myself clear tell me where,I admit I didn't take too much time in that response
On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote:
well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist
what do you base this off?
well first of all you can easily identify that different societies have different ethics throughout history
For communities unable to feed themselves even cannibalism was acceptable ,with some restrictions.
If we don't base our search for what is good for ourselves to books of supposed divine origin,we will inevitably draw different conclusions because we don't have similar experiences or even the same intelligence to draw the same.
Most people will agree on some basic stuff,like that random murder is unethical,as that easily relates to self preservation and species preservation insticts. Most animals will do the same in a purely instictive way.
So what organised society is doing is to enforce a certain moral code and punish those who fail to comply with it.Those who believe that it's good that such a code forced to people should be influenced by metaphysical packages of god given laws clearly don't understand that humanity will only have it's progress hindered by basing its decisions on the sayings of an absolute(non human) authority
Just because moral values have differed throughout diffrent times and cultures doesnt disprove the idea that there actually exists values of good and bad, either as natural phenomenons or just as objective facts indenpendent of thinking human beings. Maybe these truths of moral right or wrong are just very hard to acess and thus many have just come close or missed completely.
To completely deny their existence just because man have interpred or imagined them diffrently seems dumb, its kinda like trying to disprove the existence of god because theres are many diffrent views on what god actually is. The possitive aspects of morality for the survival of the species is an equal unsatisfying argument. Just because the moral idea of right and wrong has had benefits for our species survival doesnt mean its make believe.
You lost me there Saki. Moral values that exist without the need of humans thinking about them? Like what?I can't imagine justice existing as a concept without humans,so I 'm not sure what you mean.
I didn't say that good and bad doesn't exist,I pointed out that it differs from person to person and that this is a natural thing to be happening,as long as each individual forms his own set of rules and doesn't take them from religion packages. Because when people adopt the morals of a religion it's obvious that they won't really disagree in much if they are strict about it.
To speculate that humanity has probably missed the ultimate morality is also irrelevant because even if it existed,how could it ever be proved that it is indeed the most amazing of them all? Everyone thinks that his own morals are the best anyway,otherwise he would have changed it.
What I perceive as good is closely related to my influences, my analytical capability and what it helps me to understand as my best interest.
Since these are different for most people,it's obvious that a universal definition of good and evil is out of the question if we're not talking about religious people or tolkien books.
To assume that there is pure sense of justice,or a divine sense of right and wrong somewhere waiting to be grasped by failing humans is entirely fictional and it misses the insight on how these concepts were developed through the genealogy of ethics.Of course all these only apply if you don't believe in god.
I refered to some common ethical standards that correlate to the instinct of survival/survival of the species not to prove that they are fake because they are useful in forming societies,but to point out why they are really that common in many religions. A religion advocating people randomly killing each other would have no purpose at all,it would unite nobody and it could exploit nobody.
I never claimed you said that good and bad doesnt exist. What you do claim is that an objective thruth about what is good and what is bad doesnt exist and I contest that idea. And to your point about objective morality, it surely cant be proven to be the "most amazing of them all", all it can be proven to be is the TRUTH. A moral truth is the same as an empirical one, mount everest is the highest mountain on earth and it doesnt matter what your subjective view of the matter is. The same could be argued for moral values. Many people might have an opinion about which mountain is the highest, but only one mountain is, as many people might have an idea of what is right, independent of this, only one thing is actually right, regardless of all opinions. You keep giving morality a subjective label and this is exactly what I am disagreeing with.
I think the key point is the fact that you dont understand how moral values can exist without human existence. What I am arguing is that moral values can be similar to, for example, natural laws. Gravity exists wether you exist or not, the same could be applied to moral values. One could even argue that moral values arnt even natural laws but exist wether the universe does or not.
You keep insisting on that moral values originate from the benefits it gives to a society. Even though its true that almost any society benefits from moral values doesnt mean that these values originate from the fact that they make societies work better. Its like saying that fire exists because its been a benefit to society because it has kept us warm, kept predators away etc. I dont even know what you mean when you say that these "concepts have been developed" to me its like saying, to take a previously used example, "well, you have to consider the ways the concept of gravity have been developed" It doesnt matter how the concept has been developed as long it is true.
On October 10 2008 19:55 SakiSaki wrote:
Oh and I havent read even half of this thread but all I can say, as a for many years rabid atheist, that I think it is pretty arrogant to completely disregard the idea of the existence of God. I still dont really believe in god, but fuck man, we really dont know anything so what makes us so sure an omnipotent being/force/whatever doesnt exist? Just try and realize your own fucking lack of knowledge. Scientists have some idea of how the universe works up until miliseconds before the big bang, beyond that we have no fucking clue what so ever.
Your average joe doesnt even know how a refrigerator works, yet people continue to make statements about the certainty of Gods nonexistence. Fuck that man, try to be humble and realize you are just a completely clueless fart in the universe and atleast keep the possebility of gods existence open.
That is all.
Saki its not arrogance, its a logic conclusion, the existence of a diety doesnt make sense for many reason, we are not arrogant to say 2 + 2 = 4, its quite simple actually. we dont need to know the origin of the universe to prove or disprove god, the fact alone of the vast existence of misery in this world disprove the existence of a benevolent omnipotent being.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
1
TalentedTom Canada. Oct 11 2008 00:39. Posts 20070
God is a enormous leveling game which no one ever wins (untill one day science finds a way to prove everything, but everything that we cannot prove the immiediate answer will of course be God)
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us and as we let our own lights shine we unconsciously give other people permision to do the same
On October 10 2008 19:55 SakiSaki wrote:
Oh and I havent read even half of this thread but all I can say, as a for many years rabid atheist, that I think it is pretty arrogant to completely disregard the idea of the existence of God. I still dont really believe in god, but fuck man, we really dont know anything so what makes us so sure an omnipotent being/force/whatever doesnt exist? Just try and realize your own fucking lack of knowledge. Scientists have some idea of how the universe works up until miliseconds before the big bang, beyond that we have no fucking clue what so ever.
Your average joe doesnt even know how a refrigerator works, yet people continue to make statements about the certainty of Gods nonexistence. Fuck that man, try to be humble and realize you are just a completely clueless fart in the universe and atleast keep the possebility of gods existence open.
That is all.
can't really argue with this. coz it's true.
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iamalex United States. Oct 11 2008 03:30. Posts 1556
i'm a virtual atheist. i will behave and act as if god doesn't exist until peer reviewed scientific evidence shows me reason to believe otherwise.
On October 10 2008 19:55 SakiSaki wrote:
Oh and I havent read even half of this thread but all I can say, as a for many years rabid atheist, that I think it is pretty arrogant to completely disregard the idea of the existence of God. I still dont really believe in god, but fuck man, we really dont know anything so what makes us so sure an omnipotent being/force/whatever doesnt exist? Just try and realize your own fucking lack of knowledge. Scientists have some idea of how the universe works up until miliseconds before the big bang, beyond that we have no fucking clue what so ever.
Your average joe doesnt even know how a refrigerator works, yet people continue to make statements about the certainty of Gods nonexistence. Fuck that man, try to be humble and realize you are just a completely clueless fart in the universe and atleast keep the possebility of gods existence open.
That is all.
Saki its not arrogance, its a logic conclusion, the existence of a diety doesnt make sense for many reason, we are not arrogant to say 2 + 2 = 4, its quite simple actually. we dont need to know the origin of the universe to prove or disprove god, the fact alone of the vast existence of misery in this world disprove the existence of a benevolent omnipotent being.
who said hes benevolent? all that "disproves" is that "god" is a kind dude with a white beard who loves us and watches over us. there could be infinitely many universes in existence outside ours, and our one just happens to be one that had the exact right universal constants so that physics can work the way it does and it gave rise to stable time and space and galaxies and planets forming, or there could be a 'higher being' that can be called 'god' that set the parameters and constants that way so that the universe could be formed exist in a stable enough state with just the right conditions to give rise to sentient life somewhere, or it could all be just a monumental and epic unprecedented coincidence. this higher being might not give a crap about us or be aware of our existence, and might have had some other motive for making the universe the way it is. the point is we just can't begin to know
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tokeweed Philippines. Oct 11 2008 04:36. Posts 2149
the fact that when someone asks the question "do you believe in God?" and a lot of people answer yes or no already confirms that there is a God for those people, even if they said "NO i am an aethiest blah blah blah..."
cos if you truly believe there is no God you wouldn't even give a fuck about the stupid question anyway. you'd just be happy and content and even wanting to just sit down and watch the world burn.
On October 11 2008 03:36 tokeweed wrote:
the fact that when someone asks the question "do you believe in God?" and a lot of people answer yes or no already confirms that there is a God for those people, even if they said "NO i am an aethiest blah blah blah..."
cos if you truly believe there is no God you wouldn't even give a fuck about the stupid question anyway. you'd just be happy and content and even wanting to just sit down and watch the world burn.
uhmm this doesnt make sense at all, so santa exists because children believe in him and ask the question and if anyone would be content to see the world burn it would be the guys who believe in a life after death, us atheist guys have to make the most of it while we are here because we dont get a second chance
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On October 10 2008 19:55 SakiSaki wrote:
Oh and I havent read even half of this thread but all I can say, as a for many years rabid atheist, that I think it is pretty arrogant to completely disregard the idea of the existence of God. I still dont really believe in god, but fuck man, we really dont know anything so what makes us so sure an omnipotent being/force/whatever doesnt exist? Just try and realize your own fucking lack of knowledge. Scientists have some idea of how the universe works up until miliseconds before the big bang, beyond that we have no fucking clue what so ever.
Your average joe doesnt even know how a refrigerator works, yet people continue to make statements about the certainty of Gods nonexistence. Fuck that man, try to be humble and realize you are just a completely clueless fart in the universe and atleast keep the possebility of gods existence open.
That is all.
Although i have read random posts i think there is a big misunderstanding between God and religion.Each religion creates a God in order to 'guide' humanity in certain paths; in that way God is a human creation.
Moreover apart from Big Bang there are a lot of things that scientists dont really have a clue about(we dont even know how human brain works),but all the discoveries that have been made so far have been proved by pure maths and thus God has no place there.Plus a lot of theories in physics even if they havent been proved, have been assumed to work(since they seem to work) and these theories are the result of logical assumptions.So even though there is still no proof that God doesnt exist, every step science made so far is taking a percentage of the possibility of his existence.
In conclusion why still believe whereas all the indications pointing that we shouldnt?I think its because of theophobia which is part of all religions(not sure about that) and the lack of ability for human to rely on himself (which is the main goal of most-maybe all?-religions)
You can not lose if you do not play
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tokeweed Philippines. Oct 11 2008 04:41. Posts 2149
On October 11 2008 03:36 tokeweed wrote:
the fact that when someone asks the question "do you believe in God?" and a lot of people answer yes or no already confirms that there is a God for those people, even if they said "NO i am an aethiest blah blah blah..."
cos if you truly believe there is no God you wouldn't even give a fuck about the stupid question anyway. you'd just be happy and content and even wanting to just sit down and watch the world burn.
uhmm this doesnt make sense at all
get stoned, dig deeper. you'll get it i promise...
On October 11 2008 03:36 tokeweed wrote:
the fact that when someone asks the question "do you believe in God?" and a lot of people answer yes or no already confirms that there is a God for those people, even if they said "NO i am an aethiest blah blah blah..."
cos if you truly believe there is no God you wouldn't even give a fuck about the stupid question anyway. you'd just be happy and content and even wanting to just sit down and watch the world burn.
uhmm this doesnt make sense at all
get stoned, dig deeper. you'll get it i promise...
its not working, im stoned already
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
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EvilSky Czech Republic. Oct 11 2008 04:53. Posts 8918
I admit I dont know for sure there isnt some god, but the thing is I dont know if there isnt some green guy with 6 eyes and living in a cabin in the core of the earth bouncing on a pogo stick either, but does it mean I can tell you I believe he does and just because you cant prove he doesnt you are wrong?
Its not up to us to prove god doesnt exist, its up to religious people that he does.
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tokeweed Philippines. Oct 11 2008 05:20. Posts 2149
On October 11 2008 03:36 tokeweed wrote:
the fact that when someone asks the question "do you believe in God?" and a lot of people answer yes or no already confirms that there is a God for those people, even if they said "NO i am an aethiest blah blah blah..."
cos if you truly believe there is no God you wouldn't even give a fuck about the stupid question anyway. you'd just be happy and content and even wanting to just sit down and watch the world burn.
uhmm this doesnt make sense at all
get stoned, dig deeper. you'll get it i promise...
btw. off topic sorr but is weed easy to get in the philliphines, and how severe is the penalty if you get caught?
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
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failsafe United States. Oct 11 2008 06:25. Posts 1071
totally with mez that god in the christian conception is pretty much out of my field of view.
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sirracksalot United States. Oct 11 2008 06:31. Posts 2299
humanism is the way to go...questions of deities become moot
haters gonna hate
Last edit: 11/10/2008 06:32
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failsafe United States. Oct 11 2008 06:34. Posts 1071
free will seems like a long shot, but i guess we act as though it exists for ethical purposes. we're still free to doubt whether physics/neurology/self-reflection supports free will's existence. i guess we can always hold out for hope that something that totally defeats determinism, but i have no idea what that would be or how we would find it
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CrownRoyal United States. Oct 11 2008 06:40. Posts 11386
Life is so depressing, im into determinism too even though i sort of dislike the idea i can't deny it.
WHAT IS THIS
1
XeliN United Kingdom. Oct 11 2008 08:59. Posts 2365
I think people who are adamantly atheist are just as fundamentalist as those who are religious, but I'm not sure so Patrick all the way.
Steal City: if u want to get good at sex u need to read books. Its just like poker, u need to read
On October 10 2008 09:21 lebowski wrote:
if you think that there are universally "good" or "bad" things you are clueless though
Because...?
well I think I already responded to that on the previous page in case you missed it
if I didn't make myself clear tell me where,I admit I didn't take too much time in that response
On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote:
well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist
what do you base this off?
well first of all you can easily identify that different societies have different ethics throughout history
For communities unable to feed themselves even cannibalism was acceptable ,with some restrictions.
If we don't base our search for what is good for ourselves to books of supposed divine origin,we will inevitably draw different conclusions because we don't have similar experiences or even the same intelligence to draw the same.
Most people will agree on some basic stuff,like that random murder is unethical,as that easily relates to self preservation and species preservation insticts. Most animals will do the same in a purely instictive way.
So what organised society is doing is to enforce a certain moral code and punish those who fail to comply with it.Those who believe that it's good that such a code forced to people should be influenced by metaphysical packages of god given laws clearly don't understand that humanity will only have it's progress hindered by basing its decisions on the sayings of an absolute(non human) authority
Just because moral values have differed throughout diffrent times and cultures doesnt disprove the idea that there actually exists values of good and bad, either as natural phenomenons or just as objective facts indenpendent of thinking human beings. Maybe these truths of moral right or wrong are just very hard to acess and thus many have just come close or missed completely.
To completely deny their existence just because man have interpred or imagined them diffrently seems dumb, its kinda like trying to disprove the existence of god because theres are many diffrent views on what god actually is. The possitive aspects of morality for the survival of the species is an equal unsatisfying argument. Just because the moral idea of right and wrong has had benefits for our species survival doesnt mean its make believe.
You lost me there Saki. Moral values that exist without the need of humans thinking about them? Like what?I can't imagine justice existing as a concept without humans,so I 'm not sure what you mean.
I didn't say that good and bad doesn't exist,I pointed out that it differs from person to person and that this is a natural thing to be happening,as long as each individual forms his own set of rules and doesn't take them from religion packages. Because when people adopt the morals of a religion it's obvious that they won't really disagree in much if they are strict about it.
To speculate that humanity has probably missed the ultimate morality is also irrelevant because even if it existed,how could it ever be proved that it is indeed the most amazing of them all? Everyone thinks that his own morals are the best anyway,otherwise he would have changed it.
What I perceive as good is closely related to my influences, my analytical capability and what it helps me to understand as my best interest.
Since these are different for most people,it's obvious that a universal definition of good and evil is out of the question if we're not talking about religious people or tolkien books.
To assume that there is pure sense of justice,or a divine sense of right and wrong somewhere waiting to be grasped by failing humans is entirely fictional and it misses the insight on how these concepts were developed through the genealogy of ethics.Of course all these only apply if you don't believe in god.
I refered to some common ethical standards that correlate to the instinct of survival/survival of the species not to prove that they are fake because they are useful in forming societies,but to point out why they are really that common in many religions. A religion advocating people randomly killing each other would have no purpose at all,it would unite nobody and it could exploit nobody.
I never claimed you said that good and bad doesnt exist. What you do claim is that an objective thruth about what is good and what is bad doesnt exist and I contest that idea. And to your point about objective morality, it surely cant be proven to be the "most amazing of them all", all it can be proven to be is the TRUTH. A moral truth is the same as an empirical one, mount everest is the highest mountain on earth and it doesnt matter what your subjective view of the matter is. The same could be argued for moral values. Many people might have an opinion about which mountain is the highest, but only one mountain is, as many people might have an idea of what is right, independent of this, only one thing is actually right, regardless of all opinions. You keep giving morality a subjective label and this is exactly what I am disagreeing with.
I think the key point is the fact that you dont understand how moral values can exist without human existence. What I am arguing is that moral values can be similar to, for example, natural laws. Gravity exists wether you exist or not, the same could be applied to moral values. One could even argue that moral values arnt even natural laws but exist wether the universe does or not.
You keep insisting on that moral values originate from the benefits it gives to a society. Even though its true that almost any society benefits from moral values doesnt mean that these values originate from the fact that they make societies work better. Its like saying that fire exists because its been a benefit to society because it has kept us warm, kept predators away etc. I dont even know what you mean when you say that these "concepts have been developed" to me its like saying, to take a previously used example, "well, you have to consider the ways the concept of gravity have been developed" It doesnt matter how the concept has been developed as long it is true.
first of all,I am not saying that the origin of moral values is their beneficial effect on society. Society works with a standard set of rules (created exactly because people have differences in their viewpoints/moral codes) and people are forced to comply with them in order to remain socially active(or sometimes even alive for that matter)
What we are debating here is clearly moral relativism vs moral absolutism. Assuming you don't believe in an absolute morality provided by god, your basis on the belief that there can be an absolutely correct morality should be the common ground of human nature and the way the laws of the universe have shaped it. Although I see the way you imagine morality existing without humanity is relevant to Plato's and Aristotle's beliefs (metaphysical in nature and I prefer the sophists' philosophy from that era).I think it is obvious that for morality to be truly absolute, it would have to spring from a universally unquestioned source, interpretation and authority.
You insist that there could be a morality that is ultimate and that would be accepted by everyone if everyone was perfect in the way he perceived reality,however you fail to realise that according to eg social class there can be more than one conflicting truths. Nobody will ever feel surprised that sheep are afraid of wolves,there is no reason for us to get mad because the wolves attack sheep though. We could easily imagine the sheep giving the face of a wolf to what they understand as evil and on the other hand the wolves finding happiness in killing for their lunch. You can take that analogy and apply it to a world of people constantly battling for power,something very natural to be happening, and you'll see why it's naive to assume that people would have similar values if they were smart enough.Especially when people with actually similar values end up killing each other (see nationalism)
That said,I am 100% with the idea that social structure requires generally accepted laws and these laws should probably reflect values based on what human beings have in common and what they understand as positive for the common good through rational thinking,to the extent that this is possible.Thinking that the perfect rules could be found and put to practice is not only utopian but probably dangerous too though
edit:I wrote a paragraph about how the absence of free will and therefore the incapability of choosing in a deterministic universe renders morality irrelevant in an objective form,I am unsure that I can be positive on whether free choice is required for an action to be 'moral' so I deleted it.oh well.
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
so my phone wasn't working yesterday and it caused me to miss a package so i flung the shit to the ground really hard and sorta reassembled it and it works now
it aint god. its majikz.
lets go fucking mental la la la la lets go fucking mental lets go fucking mental lala la la
On October 09 2008 18:10 SfydjkLm wrote:
i believe in God god, but i really think one way or another it is rather foolish to not believe in intelligent design in some shape or form. Seems to me like the things are way too together and not random and in line with humane way of thinking to really be just a random occurrence.
it's natural to feel this way but this argument has been countered so thoroughly
you should watch some richard dawkins stuff he's a really classy guy fun to watch and I think it'll interest you or maybe even change your opinion
Well i just stated my opinion, under no circumstance will i argue about something that cant be ever proven.
*wink wink*
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hawking United States. Oct 11 2008 12:19. Posts 348
You know I hear this same line all the time "humans are way too complex to have just happened by coincidence". Are we really though? Exactly what intelligent design has been put into our physical bodies? We have a patch of random hair on our head, a couple of smaller random patches on our chest, armpits. Our legs are ridiculously over-hairy compared to our arms or back. Pound for pound we are very weak compared to other animals. We have absolutely zero defenses against attacks.
Now look at our internal structure. We have what would seem to be a complex delivery system for nutrients and supply. Our bodies are wrapped in veins and other circulatory channels, but it is in complete disarray. We have multiple upon multiple redundant paths, none of them take the most efficient route, they wrap and intertwine around themselves like a spaghetti soup. They are all different sizes and widths, total inconsistency.
A ferrari is intelligent design. An F-22 fighter jet is intelligent design. A human with intelligent design should have like fucking lasers coming out of our eyes. Why dont I have that shit? I should have fuckin claws that shoot out of my finger tips for climbing trees. I should be able to run 100mph to escape predators. See in the dark 500x better. Smell shit from a mile away. Have super hearing. Be able to breathe under water.
If anything, humans are one of the worst fucking designs i have ever seen.
hawking: What do you do when a fish targets you? --- Breeze: What to do when a hot girl starts hitting your dick with her ass?
Last edit: 11/10/2008 12:19
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tokeweed Philippines. Oct 11 2008 12:40. Posts 2149
On October 11 2008 04:34 Zorglub wrote:
btw. off topic sorr but is weed easy to get in the philliphines, and how severe is the penalty if you get caught?
yes.. but the stuff you get is crap... the good stuff is hard to get... you get a life sentence if they catch you with like half a kilo of weed on you, but who walks around carrying that much except for the dealers. and the narcs here don't really care much if it's just weed... they are more concerned about the increase in the use of crystal-meth so they catch those guys.
On October 11 2008 03:36 tokeweed wrote:
the fact that when someone asks the question "do you believe in God?" and a lot of people answer yes or no already confirms that there is a God for those people, even if they said "NO i am an aethiest blah blah blah..."
cos if you truly believe there is no God you wouldn't even give a fuck about the stupid question anyway. you'd just be happy and content and even wanting to just sit down and watch the world burn.
LOLOLOLOLOL.
If somebody asks you if u believe in ghosts and you say "NO" you are implying you believe in them too right?
lol wtf.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
Last edit: 11/10/2008 13:07
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FrinkX United States. Oct 11 2008 13:25. Posts 7562
didnt read any posts
but yes god exists, its science
bitch on a pension suck my dong
1
FrinkX United States. Oct 11 2008 13:26. Posts 7562
and no i dont have the math to prove it aussiefagsquad
On October 10 2008 13:42 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
free will doesn't exist
QFT
if you create something, and it behaves badly, its your fucking fault for creating it that way lol
Its gods fault u dont get laid obv
Yeah and the only way you can get revenge is by not believing in him, that will hurt his feelings or you could take the safer route and become a muslim and secure yourself 72 virgins, that way you at least get to have sex at some point
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On October 09 2008 18:10 SfydjkLm wrote:
i believe in God god, but i really think one way or another it is rather foolish to not believe in intelligent design in some shape or form. Seems to me like the things are way too together and not random and in line with humane way of thinking to really be just a random occurrence.
it's natural to feel this way but this argument has been countered so thoroughly
you should watch some richard dawkins stuff he's a really classy guy fun to watch and I think it'll interest you or maybe even change your opinion
Well i just stated my opinion, under no circumstance will i argue about something that cant be ever proven.
"proving" something is merely assigning it 100% probability, but that number 100 isn't really all that magical
if something is 95% probable to be true then it can be helpful to know that - more helpful than saying "i can't prove that it's 100% probable, so I'll avoid thinking about it alltogether"
nobody can ever prove to you that there isn't a God, that's true, but from your first post it sounds like you think it's very likely that there is one. You even said it was rather foolish not to believe in some kind of intelligent design.
so why not discuss it? it couldn't possibly hurt you right?
GroT
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tokeweed Philippines. Oct 11 2008 18:04. Posts 2149
On October 11 2008 03:36 tokeweed wrote:
the fact that when someone asks the question "do you believe in God?" and a lot of people answer yes or no already confirms that there is a God for those people, even if they said "NO i am an aethiest blah blah blah..."
cos if you truly believe there is no God you wouldn't even give a fuck about the stupid question anyway. you'd just be happy and content and even wanting to just sit down and watch the world burn.
LOLOLOLOLOL.
If somebody asks you if u believe in ghosts and you say "NO" you are implying you believe in them too right?
lol wtf.
no i wouldn't even give a fuck about that stupid question. i'd just be happy and content and even wanting to just sit down and watch the world burn.
big hand = bong loads
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hawking United States. Oct 11 2008 18:07. Posts 348
plz stop quoting the dark knight
hawking: What do you do when a fish targets you? --- Breeze: What to do when a hot girl starts hitting your dick with her ass?
1
tokeweed Philippines. Oct 11 2008 18:24. Posts 2149
On October 11 2008 17:07 hawking wrote:
plz stop quoting the dark knight
please stop acting like a tight stuck up bitch
big hand = bong loads
1
XeliN United Kingdom. Oct 11 2008 20:44. Posts 2365
Less dark knight, more religious debate. Make it happen, someone with strong views make a claim GO!
Steal City: if u want to get good at sex u need to read books. Its just like poker, u need to read
On October 10 2008 19:55 SakiSaki wrote:
Oh and I havent read even half of this thread but all I can say, as a for many years rabid atheist, that I think it is pretty arrogant to completely disregard the idea of the existence of God. I still dont really believe in god, but fuck man, we really dont know anything so what makes us so sure an omnipotent being/force/whatever doesnt exist?
we're not "sure" we just suspect really really strongly that he doesn't exist
i think it's weird especially for a poker player to be so concerned with something that's so close to impossible
to me it's like saying "omg what if i get dealt 72o every single hand for the rest of my life? i'll be in deep shit when that happens!" yeah it COULD happen in theory but seriously play a hand it wont
also there may be no proof but the arguments that say its astronomically unlikely are very strong
is it according to you also arrogant to claim that storm troopers and wookies (chewbacca) don't exist? we can't prove that they don't
On October 10 2008 19:55 SakiSaki wrote:
Oh and I havent read even half of this thread but all I can say, as a for many years rabid atheist, that I think it is pretty arrogant to completely disregard the idea of the existence of God. I still dont really believe in god, but fuck man, we really dont know anything so what makes us so sure an omnipotent being/force/whatever doesnt exist?
we're not "sure" we just suspect really really strongly that he doesn't exist
i think it's weird especially for a poker player to be so concerned with something that's so close to impossible
to me it's like saying "omg what if i get dealt 72o every single hand for the rest of my life? i'll be in deep shit when that happens!" yeah it COULD happen in theory but seriously play a hand it wont
also there may be no proof but the arguments that say its astronomically unlikely are very strong
is it according to you also arrogant to claim that storm troopers and wookies (chewbacca) don't exist? we can't prove that they don't
Saki on that post almost makes it look like the world is filled with raging atheists busting religious peoples' balls when in fact the opposite is clearly the case,sadly.
new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...
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tokeweed Philippines. Oct 11 2008 22:51. Posts 2149
On October 11 2008 20:07 Roald wrote:
God exists any way we define him to exist. To me, God is that which I cannot control. Typically, that which I cannot control fucks me over.
So I hate God.
I wish I could kill God
nice honest thought. now make your peace with me my son...
hmmmmm, evolution and big bang theory vs SOME DUDE WITH MAGIC FINGERS SHITTING LIFE
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
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United States. Oct 09 2008 19:33. Posts 10197
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