Do you believe in God? - Page 6

On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote: well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist

what do you base this off?

I'd like to ad that most wars and stuff brought on by religion have some kind of economic or power-related motive too, so I'm pretty sure that Random Evil King/Leader (TM) would've found some other stupid reason then a guy in the sky for invading whatever country he wanted to invade anyway.

On October 10 2008 08:28 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote: well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist what do you base this off?

I'd also like to ad that any attempt to remove "good" and "evil" form the map should be addressed by a really big black dude, preferably something like MW in Pulp Fiction, raping the shit out of the person in question and then he should be required to state if he still doesn't think evil exists.

There is likely no God. There is definitely no religion that is correct.
It always amazes me that something like 90%+ of people believe in a religion in someway.

Though reason and logic tells me that the odds are very slim there is an afterlife/religion, I'm willing to entertain the idea I could be wrong. I've seen "Who Wants to be a MIllionaire" When people ask the audience, the audience is right just about every time.


On a side note, I'm about to have breakfast on Saturday morning with my uber Christian uncle whom I haven't seen since I was 15 (and still religious). Anyone have any advice for me when the inevetiable question of, "How is your spirtual life" comes up?

Should I be truthful and tell him I'm a borderline atheist? That'll defintiely spark a debate and I don't really feel like defneidng my views to a guy who doesn't believe in evolution.

ALso, one of the things I hate most about religion is that it gives people an intellecutal laziness. It's easy to say, we don't know why X happens therefore God created it. this kind of thinking defintely slowed down our advancement over the course of history and the farther we get away from this kind of thinking the better.

who? nah i believe in patrick :D

On October 10 2008 00:31 Ket wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote: If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one. So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful. if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history

"If it works it works" doesnt work too well in the ethereal

I mean, here on earth, if a murderer doesnt murder because he doesnt want to go to jail, whatever nothing happens it doesnt effect anyone. But if he's not murdering just because of his God then his god should know and understand his motives and recognize that this isnt a good person

--- Nuked ---

On October 10 2008 08:28 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote: well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist what do you base this off?

well first of all you can easily identify that different societies have different ethics throughout history
For communities unable to feed themselves even cannibalism was acceptable ,with some restrictions.

If we don't base our search for what is good for ourselves to books of supposed divine origin,we will inevitably draw different conclusions because we don't have similar experiences or even the same intelligence to draw the same.

Most people will agree on some basic stuff,like that random murder is unethical,as that easily relates to self preservation and species preservation insticts. Most animals will do the same in a purely instictive way.

So what organised society is doing is to enforce a certain moral code and punish those who fail to comply with it.Those who believe that it's good that such a code forced to people should be influenced by metaphysical packages of god given laws clearly don't understand that humanity will only have it's progress hindered by basing its decisions on the sayings of an absolute(non human) authority

On October 10 2008 09:04 SKoT wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 00:31 Ket wrote:   On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote: If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one. So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful. if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history "If it works it works" doesnt work too well in the ethereal I mean, here on earth, if a murderer doesnt murder because he doesnt want to go to jail, whatever nothing happens it doesnt effect anyone. But if he's not murdering just because of his God then his god should know and understand his motives and recognize that this isnt a good person

i wasnt saying 'it works' for the would-be murderer, i was saying it works for the would-be murdered. i.e. it works better overall when people dont do bad things regardless of their motive

On October 10 2008 08:36 DustySwedeDude wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 08:28 SakiSaki wrote:   On October 10 2008 06:54 lebowski wrote: well the most important thing of all is that a strictly defined "good" or "evil" doesn't exist what do you base this off? I'd also like to ad that any attempt to remove "good" and "evil" form the map should be addressed by a really big black dude, preferably something like MW in Pulp Fiction, raping the shit out of the person in question and then he should be required to state if he still doesn't think evil exists.

you clearly have never heard of masochism

who said anything about taking "good" or "bad" out of the map
if you think that there are universally "good" or "bad" things you are clueless though

On October 09 2008 22:49 whamm! wrote: catholicism ftw fuckers

now i know that u r joking about this and all ... but catholicism is equally as bad as muslim they used to make people go die at wars that shouldnt have even happened in 1st place, they take money out of people just for them to be able to believe in it in 1st place WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT ?! oh yeah and 90% of their priests are fucking GAY PHEDOPHILES torchoring little boys
so... think about those thing next time u joke about this

On October 10 2008 07:28 [vital]Myth wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 00:31 Ket wrote:   On October 09 2008 21:47 Baal wrote: If a person does good only because he is afraid of punishment that person is not a good person, its just a fearful one. So religion doesnt make people good, just fearful. if it works it works. religion has probably played a positive part overall in human history uhhh wow how much history have you studied? religion has created far more evil and murder than anything else and it isn't even close

That isn't religion. That is mankind.

What you are saying is like saying that government has created far more oppression and terrorrism and censorship than anything else, and it isn't even close.

Because while you may be correct, it is completely irrelevant. It is just one side of the coin, and it's through the misuse of people committing evil deeds that it arises, not through the nature of the thing is itself.

lol @ Ket and travis

wtf is up with "that isnt religion that is mankind"...,thats like saying, automatic rifles were positive in our history.... i mean the people who murdered thousands with it, thats not an automatic rifle, that is mankind!!!

Religion is a mind numbing prefabricated belief system that spreads hatred and ignorance around the world.


Ket you are 100% wrong, the obscurantism 1000 years of absolute opression of any kind of scientific or social progress, that alone is much more worse than the crusades or the inquisition (which make religion evil in its core, but not necessarely that bad our historical progress as humans).... imagine mankind's technology in 1000 years !!!!, we may be immortal and teleport and weird shit, well that would be our present if it werent for religion.

lol idiots with power

err i mean religious people

I've given up against religious people. I cannot disprove faith yet sorry... COME ON HADRON COLLIDER!

This topic should be renamed "Do you believe in trolls?"
Would we still be having this discussion 'x' pages into the topic? Probably not.

I also love how people 'believe in god' etc etc... but for fuck sakes! YOU'D BELIEVE IN ZEUS IF YOU LIVED DURING THAT ERA AND THAT LOCATION! OR YOU'D BELIEVE IN THOR IF YOU LIVED DURING THAT ERA AND THAT LOCATION!

People laugh at Scientology, yet isn't Christianity and all other religions just as fucking crazy and magical as the next? It's all a big fucking fairy tail that idiots bought into because they fucking hated their own lives as peasants. 'IT SURE WOULD BE GREAT TO GO TO A GREAT PLACE LIKE HEAVEN, ESPECIALLY SINCE IM ON THE BOTTOM OF THE TOTEM POLL ATM!'

People are so arrogant not to see that shit. Religion is as pathetic as it's followers. Atheists can truly live their life freely and without doubt. All religious people do is squander their own life now 'in hopes' of eternal bliss [which is fubar anyways, happiness without sadness is not happiness].

Also everyone is right because no one can prove shit, doesn't that just suck? Well I have my bet still on no deity!

p.s. bring on the flames you cockmunchers

On October 10 2008 11:01 Baal wrote: lol @ Ket and travis wtf is up with "that isnt religion that is mankind"...,thats like saying, automatic rifles were positive in our history.... i mean the people who murdered thousands with it, thats not an automatic rifle, that is mankind!!!

apparently u completely ignored the analogy that I posted.
Or do you think civilization would be better off without government?

Religion is a mind numbing prefabricated belief system that spreads hatred and ignorance around the world.

apparently you haven't studied religion much, that or you like stereotyping things to a retarded extreme.

Ket you are 100% wrong, the obscurantism 1000 years of absolute opression of any kind of scientific or social progress, that alone is much more worse than the crusades or the inquisition

Baal - what?

Firstly, Islam was way ahead of it's time regarding contributions to math, science, and medicine. As was ancient greece - which had a multitude of thriving religious beliefs. As was ancient Egypt, which was centered around religion.

Secondly, what you are talking about is corrupted religion. It has nothing to do with the original teachers of christianity or islam or etc.

When was the last time you actually read the direct teachings(DIRECT) of Jesus, or Thomas Aquinas, or Mohammed, or Buddha? I am guessing NEVER.

imagine mankind's technology in 1000 years !!!!, we may be immortal and teleport and weird shit, well that would be our present if it werent for religion.

Religion is here to remind us that that shit isn't actually all that important. and hopefully you realize it before you're on your deathbed. I hope all of you do.
None of you will ever find lasting happiness or peace in scientific advances.

the DIRECT teachings of Jesus... hahahah holy fucking shit. Sooo relgion. The all powerful all knowing god creates man. Decides to give man free will - yet because he is all knowing and all powerful knows man will disobey his command of eating the apples and thus will sin, thus he knows mankind is doomed to hell yet he allows this anyway............ logic wins religion loses, does not exist.... GG

On October 10 2008 11:37 RonK1337 wrote: the DIRECT teachings of Jesus... hahahah holy fucking shit. Sooo relgion.

explain yourself or realize you aren't arguing anything.

The all powerful all knowing god creates man. Decides to give man free will - yet because he is all knowing and all powerful knows man will disobey his command of eating the apples and thus will sin, thus he knows mankind is doomed to hell yet he allows this anyway............

If he didn't, in what way would it be "free will".

logic wins religion loses, does not exist.... GG

Ok firstly, for people who are too ignorant to realize, religion is not synonymous with christianity.

Secondly, I showed you the logic when replying to the quote before this one. Maybe it'd be helpful for you to realize that you don't understand everything.

Here we go again with a pointless "debate" where people can argue for 100.000 years and yet never listen to what the other one has to say.

/thread

On October 10 2008 11:33 asdf2000 wrote: apparently u completely ignored the analogy that I posted. Or do you think civilization would be better off without government?

Im an anarchist

apparently you haven't studied religion much, that or you like stereotyping things to a retarded extreme.

Im from México, the most catholic country in the entire world, i were raised as a catholic, i took many classes and i went to highschool to a catholic school, so yeah ive studied religion, much more than you have.

Firstly, Islam was way ahead of it's time regarding contributions to math, science, and medicine. As was ancient greece - which had a multitude of thriving religious beliefs. As was ancient Egypt, which was centered around religion.

Its not Islam that contributed those, it was their civilization, the religion did not encourage the pursue of scientific knowledge, same with Greeks and Egypts, its NOT the religion what made the scientific improvements, nor encourage it.

When was the last time you actually read the direct teachings(DIRECT) of Jesus, or Thomas Aquinas, or Mohammed, or Buddha? I am guessing NEVER.

i already replied to your assumption that i dont know religion (in particular christianity), so your guess is wrong, i know about it more than you, ive lived with it and surrounded by it much more than you have.

Religion is here to remind us that that shit isn't actually all that important. and hopefully you realize it before you're on your deathbed. I hope all of you do. None of you will ever find lasting happiness or peace in scientific advances.

You will find a better enviroment to develop in scientific and social advances, in a highly scientific and social community withouth stupid beliefs, there is peace and harmony (no wars for example), no irrational hatred towards other races etc, even if that doesnt grant you happiness, it is much easier to obtain it there than in the middle of hatred and war.

Religion isnt there to remind us that... religion is there to control sheep, i dont need to believe in fairy tales to cope with life or be happy, i am 100% happy and content with my life in my total disbelief of any kind of deities or spirituality, and not happy in a fake way that everyone says is happy, cuz i havent been happy all my life, but now i am and not because of external factors but i just found the answers i needed, and none of them needed religion.