Do you believe in God? - Page 12

I would argue that people do not draw their morals from religion if thats what u guys are talking about

On October 10 2008 18:29 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I would argue that people do not draw their morals from religion if thats what u guys are talking about

well, I think it's as simple as religious people do, while others do not.

If religious people drew their morals from the bible they would kill people for adultery imo

On October 10 2008 18:19 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 18:18 lebowski wrote:   On October 10 2008 18:09 Baal wrote:   On October 10 2008 17:58 lebowski wrote:   On October 10 2008 17:18 Baal wrote:   On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid. Did you have the same experiences they had? so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine. about this Baal,you do realise that if freedom of choice doesn't actually exist judging the murderer is really pointless and I mean that in the sense of pointing fingers.What's not pointless is to try to discourage the rest of the society from doing something similar by punishing him.Of course justice exists for several other reasons too i never claimed that free will does not exist, i mean we could get anal and philosophical and saying we are just a product of our experienes as slight as they are but its pointless to discuss such a sophist topic. it's not sophist at all,the greatest control mechanism that the christian religion brought upon the western world is the concept of sin Do you think Karma is a control mechanism as well?

I think buddhism is a much more esoteric religion, I am not really familiar with the many branches of buddhism tbh or if there is actually salvation from one's Karma in every one of them,there are similarities with the concept of sin but I don't believe they are very relevant

I sure hope people do not draw their morals from the bible

On October 10 2008 18:33 Feiticeira wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 18:29 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I would argue that people do not draw their morals from religion if thats what u guys are talking about well, I think it's as simple as religious people do, while others do not.

Is it fair to say that my moral set coincides with my religion because it's what I believe in, regardless of my religion?

On October 10 2008 18:35 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I sure hope people do not draw their morals from the bible

...

are they saying you don't think they do? You are staggeringly mistaken and incredibly naive.

huh? what are u talking about im just saying stuff

On October 10 2008 18:24 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 18:21 lebowski wrote:   On October 10 2008 18:16 asdf2000 wrote:   On October 10 2008 18:12 lebowski wrote: [quote] I doubt that this or god can be observed though,it's just a matter of being precise and accurate with your observations. I don't understand what you are saying. in simple words, god could never be objectively observed and subjective observations are useless Subjective observations are useless? So you learn nothing on your own? Or you get a 2nd opinion on everything? I can't knock what you're saying (surely you didn't intend to come off as radical as it sounds to me). However, the view is terribly materialistic, which I disagree with.

I am talking about the objectivity of proof,subjective proof is a paradox isn't it?
While talking with god in a regular basis might be interesting to me,I doubt the rest of the world would or should give a damn when they can observe nothing

On October 10 2008 18:36 Feiticeira wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 18:35 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I sure hope people do not draw their morals from the bible ... are they saying you don't think they do? You are staggeringly mistaken and incredibly naive.

i have no idea what u are referring to here or anything, and dont b mean i know im naive but so are you

On October 10 2008 18:42 MezmerizePLZ wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 18:36 Feiticeira wrote:   On October 10 2008 18:35 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I sure hope people do not draw their morals from the bible ... are they saying you don't think they do? You are staggeringly mistaken and incredibly naive. i have no idea what u are referring to here or anything, and dont b mean i know im naive but so are you

... um, it was a direct response to your post.

'I sure hope people do not draw their morals from the bible' suggests you would be suprised to discover they do. Coming from a citizen of the United States I would wonder how that could be possible, short of having never watched television or spoken to a living human being.

I agree that people should not be reading the bible literally for moral guidance, given that it is an arcane text with many passages that simply cannot be practically applied in any civil, modern society, but it's quite clear that many people do.

I'd like to know where I'm being naive though.

U obviously have no idea what i meant. People definitely believe that they draw their morals from the bible but infact do not, or else things would be very different.

THEY DO NOT DRAW THEIR MORALS FROM THE BIBLE THEY ONLY THINK THEY DO

On October 10 2008 18:14 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 18:10 Baal wrote:   On October 10 2008 18:05 asdf2000 wrote:   On October 10 2008 17:48 ikc5 wrote:   On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote: I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful. Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A. These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith. Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid. Did you have the same experiences they had? Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools. Those are retarded examples, we can determine whether or not the bathroom sign leads to the bathroom, we have evidence that we landed on the moon, we've used the calculator or a calculator before and can easily determine if it works, DNA is material and can be studied and examined, as can germs. That's not the same in even the remotest sense in faith that an omnipotent omniscient immaterial entity exists and it can never be proven or tested. I didn't say it was the same. I was trying to illustrate a point about the nature and use of faith, but obviously I failed miserably. And I think some would argue that god can be observed, god can be felt. But it is subjective, not objective. how can you observe god? How can I observe god? Or how can you observe god? Or how could Gandhi observe god? Fasting would probably be a good starting point.

isnt "you" clear enough? how can you travis observe god.

We are all naive, and you are especially naive if you don't know that

On October 10 2008 18:34 lebowski wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 18:19 asdf2000 wrote:   On October 10 2008 18:18 lebowski wrote:   On October 10 2008 18:09 Baal wrote:   On October 10 2008 17:58 lebowski wrote:   On October 10 2008 17:18 Baal wrote:   On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid. Did you have the same experiences they had? so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine. about this Baal,you do realise that if freedom of choice doesn't actually exist judging the murderer is really pointless and I mean that in the sense of pointing fingers.What's not pointless is to try to discourage the rest of the society from doing something similar by punishing him.Of course justice exists for several other reasons too i never claimed that free will does not exist, i mean we could get anal and philosophical and saying we are just a product of our experienes as slight as they are but its pointless to discuss such a sophist topic. it's not sophist at all,the greatest control mechanism that the christian religion brought upon the western world is the concept of sin Do you think Karma is a control mechanism as well? I think buddhism is a much more esoteric religion, I am not really familiar with the many branches of buddhism tbh or if there is actually salvation from one's Karma in every one of them,

There is. I cannot prove it, it is taught that if you choose to follow a buddhist path you must take it on faith that that practice will lead you to enlightenment. At a certain point (perhaps one month - perhaps 50 years) you will understand that it truly will. So, I am taking this on faith to an extent. Though in many ways, I see how it is true.

there are similarities with the concept of sin but I don't believe they are very relevant

It is true because the direct teachings of jesus, and the teachings of buddha, both have the same goal: the elimination of suffering.

ur wording was very bad which is why i was confused. are they saying you don't think they do? that is what confused me

On October 10 2008 18:49 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 18:14 asdf2000 wrote:   On October 10 2008 18:10 Baal wrote:   On October 10 2008 18:05 asdf2000 wrote:   On October 10 2008 17:48 ikc5 wrote:   On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote: I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful. Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A. These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith. Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid. Did you have the same experiences they had? Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools. Those are retarded examples, we can determine whether or not the bathroom sign leads to the bathroom, we have evidence that we landed on the moon, we've used the calculator or a calculator before and can easily determine if it works, DNA is material and can be studied and examined, as can germs. That's not the same in even the remotest sense in faith that an omnipotent omniscient immaterial entity exists and it can never be proven or tested. I didn't say it was the same. I was trying to illustrate a point about the nature and use of faith, but obviously I failed miserably. And I think some would argue that god can be observed, god can be felt. But it is subjective, not objective. how can you observe god? How can I observe god? Or how can you observe god? Or how could Gandhi observe god? Fasting would probably be a good starting point. isnt "you" clear enough? how can you travis observe god.

I could still my mind through various means, it would take some time. And I would wait for messages from him. Might get some, might not.

I don't got what it takes to do that yet though. And if I do it won't be to wait for messages from god.

On October 10 2008 18:51 MezmerizePLZ wrote: ur wording was very bad which is why i was confused. are they saying you don't think they do? that is what confused me

...

are you high? My wordin-- fuck it. This is why I get annoyed responding to people on LP.

I agree, mez's latest posts have confused me. But I just figured my posts probably confuse alot of people too. Not sure, though.