Do you believe in God? - Page 10

I think faith can have different forms. I think that faith can be useful.

Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.

These things can be verified, as can other things we take on faith. But it isn't necessarily practical to verify everything you take on faith.



Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?





Faith is, however, not useful should one not investigate what they are taking faith in. Stubborn blind faith is for stubborn blind fools.

Obviously believing what you're told in school is the logical thing to do, not believing what you're told in school would in fact be the illogical choice, which is what i'm arguing against. you can only make decisions based on the best information you have, and in every circumstance in my life i use logic for that.

I think faith is ridiculous in the sense that people take it as justification for being illogical. If you see a bathroom sign it would be logical to assume that a bathroom is nearby.

On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid. Did you have the same experiences they had?

so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.

--- Nuked ---

oh god travis what in the hell are you dong, comparing faith into a bathroom sign with faith in a god?. you by experience know that there is usually a bathroom when a sign indicates it, we dont by experience know that god exist, its a random illogical though that goes against reason.

Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid.
Did you have the same experiences they had?

Almost surely what leads them to believe in a higher power is who they are brought up by, and I don't think they are stupid I just think what they believe in is not the truth. Why shouldn't we at least offer them new information and then let them decide?

and i'm sure if i had their experiences i would be like them

On October 10 2008 17:15 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I think faith is ridiculous in the sense that people take it as justification for being illogical.

I agree. But logic is based on understanding of nature. The primary source of one's understanding of nature is their experiences.

I am an intelligent, logical person. Yet some of the paths of logic I take do not make any sense to other intelligent, logical people. It is because I have a different understanding of things than they do.

If I was to say god speaks to me, directly - almost all of you would believe I was incorrect. Yet, what basis would any of you have for believing so? None, other than beliefs that have been cemented - a type of faith.

If you see a bathroom sign it would be logical to assume that a bathroom is nearby.

You picked the worst of my bad examples. I was attempting to illustrate a point.

On October 10 2008 17:18 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2008 17:12 asdf2000 wrote:Now - if one has experiences in their life that lead them to take on faith in a god or higher power - who are we to tell them that they are wrong, or that they are stupid. Did you have the same experiences they had? so based on this we cannot say anything about a murderer, we didnt have the same experience they had, does that exonerates them from what they did?, newflash, judging is fine.

newsflash, I don't know what you're talking about.

Is this supposed to be a reply to what you quoted?

On October 10 2008 17:19 devon06atX wrote: I want you to know that I'm not against religion. I think its a waste of time, yes. but if it makes YOU happier, a better person, whatever, then essentially its a good thing, right? what I am against is when people truly believe that there is a god, that jesus is his SON, and that woman are made out of a rib stolen from adam and speak it as OMG THIS IS TRUTH, HOW DARE THEE. oh ya, and that we're all on this un-perfect world due to some snake tricking good old adam to eat an apple. c'mon....

So do I. It makes me sad when people take obvious metaphors literally.

I just wish that all the time and resources that have been spent on religions can be used for things that really matter. technology which could lead to a possibly cleaner environment. social programs for the needy. hell, sports arena's for our youth. anything that actually has an x to y ratio of civil utility. anything. so the question is trav, do you believe in santa? or is that simply too ridiculous to believe?

You got me, I don't believe in Santa. You win.

Faith that the bathroom sign will lead to a bathroom. Faith that your calculator works correctly. Faith that NASA landed on the moon, and we've really been to outer space. Faith that germs are real, as is D.N.A.

the problem with all of these that you were arguing is that it is LOGICAL for us to believe that a bathroom sign leads to a bathroom that calculators work correctly that nasa landed on the moon and that we've been to space n stuff

the difference between all of these and religion is that it is ILLOGICAL to believe that god in the christian sense exists

that was like the only thing i was trying to say

so your examples of faith were totally misguided and not relevant at all

On October 10 2008 17:22 MezmerizePLZ wrote: Almost surely what leads them to believe in a higher power is who they are brought up by,

There is a difference between mimicry, genuine belief, and understanding. I would say that who they are brought up by is very influential regarding religion, but mostly leads to mimicry and genuine belief.

Why shouldn't we at least offer them new information and then let them decide?

Maybe

and i'm sure if i had their experiences i would be like them

Then why be so convinced that you, with your experiences, are correct?

I mean, I do think it is good to be confident in what you believe. But I think it's bad to close off to alternate possibility.

my family is loosely christian, i've even been to church camp when i was younger. that shit is brainwashing.

Why be so convinced my experiences are correct?

Cause i'm smarter than everyone in the world

and obviously its sorta impossible for me to believe that what i believe is false, lol

On October 10 2008 17:36 MezmerizePLZ wrote: my family is loosely christian, i've even been to church camp when i was younger. that shit is brainwashing.

I was just trying to make a point with that "taken on faith" stuff. I will try again a different way:


Many of those who are religious are essentially brainwashed, yes. Those people are irrelevant to me.

Many of the others - they see existence a different way than most atheists/agnostics/etc. They interpret things differently. This leads to a different type of understanding. Just because this type of understanding is different, does not mean it is wrong.

and I am not so sure I am closed minded, I may be closed minded now, but only because i've explored the christian religion pretty well, as well as done research on the subject and can say firmly that with all the information i have gained it is fairly obvious that god, especially in any religious sense, does not exist.

I think religion can be beneficial to people, but i think as a whole religion is a terrible thing for society.

On October 10 2008 17:41 MezmerizePLZ wrote: and I am not so sure I am closed minded, I may be closed minded now, but only because i've explored the christian religion pretty well, as well as done research on the subject and can say firmly that with all the information i have gained it is fairly obvious that god, especially in any religious sense, does not exist.

Let me assure you, from personal experience, that beliefs can change radically any time. As someone who doesn't believe in free will, you should agree with this.

I think religion can be beneficial to people, but i think as a whole religion is a terrible thing for society.

I think society is a terrible thing for religion.

Many of the others - they see existence a different way than most atheists/agnostics/etc. They interpret things differently. This leads to a different type of understanding. Just because this type of understanding is different, does not mean it is wrong.

trying to counter this but i dont see what is going on here ~_~ not sure what u are arguing or what i am arguing