Zeitgeist addendum - Page 2

lol

On October 05 2008 19:14 vegable wrote: utopia cannot exist unless every member of society becomes agreeable to what is Is globalization/world unity inevitable? I think not. As centuries pass by it will be rare to find anyone that is not of mixed racial descent. The strongest idealogy will eventually find a successful way to dominate and eliminate any other ideologies and people will know of nothing except whatever is socially programmed into them. Like all things manmade, this one ideology will have its flaws and collapse. This is how the world will end!

No, society will surpass "bad apples", in a faint utopia, like the hippy communities i mentioned, a couple of people who take advantage of the system can jeopardize its stability, however if society grows to certain extent, those will be absorbed, for example, somebody gets greedy in some way, what is he going to do... take 5 cars for himself???, overeat like crazy???, what can he possibly do when everything is free... there is no motivation for stealing or any malevolent act, but mental illness, like for example a serial killer, in which case he would be sent to a mental institution, not jail.

DONT WATCH THIS GARBAGE. Why is it that this communist propaganda stuff is all that people post in forums?
Why do people always want to think they are poor because someone is EXPLOITING them? Did Marxism suddenly become hip on the USA also?
Here in south america there are lots of populist guys badmouthing the "evil corporations" and the "IMF", and how it's so cruel to end peoples "welfare".

People always assume that they DESERVE things, like health, housing, food, etc. Where do these things come from? Goods dont exist in nature,
they are created by work. If someone recieves something without work, they recieved it from someone else. If consensual, its called a gift, if not, its called theft.
Usually people call this theft "welfare for the needy" and "taxes for the productive".

Read some books buys.

Also, if the current monetary system is flawed, what does the filmaker suggest, return to the gold standard? As if gold doesnt fluctuate in value by new findings of
gold ore, or lack of theroff. Ever heard of something called a deflationary spiral? People hoarding gold, or people digging for gold, creates zero "intrinsic value" for an
economy.
Also dont forget that we are living in the best times in history. Even some of the lowest income americans have access to goods and services that not even
a monarch would have access to a few hundred years ago.

Books to read:
The Machinery of Freedom - David Friedman
Human Action - Ludwig von Mises
Atlas Shrugged - Ayn Rand
also,
Basic Economics - Thomas Sowell

I am aware that certain libertarians advocate gold standard etc. but economic theory has moved beyond that and it's agreed that its problems would far outweigh benefits. Furthermore, if you are worried about inflation, buy gold bullion and make your own private gold standard, you have the liberty of doing that. Or simply buy stocks, wich on the long term are unaffected by rising prices since they companies can charge more. All the evil corporations are for sale (LMT, MO, NOC, HAL, XOM, etc) join the conspiracy!

On October 05 2008 20:20 r3v wrote: DONT WATCH THIS GARBAGE. Why is it that this communist propaganda stuff is all that people post in forums? Why do people always want to think they are poor because someone is EXPLOITING them? Did Marxism suddenly become hip on the USA also? Here in south america there are lots of populist guys badmouthing the "evil corporations" and the "IMF", and how it's so cruel to end peoples "welfare". People always assume that they DESERVE things, like health, housing, food, etc. Where do these things come from? Goods dont exist in nature, they are created by work. If someone recieves something without work, they recieved it from someone else. If consensual, its called a gift, if not, its called theft. Usually people call this theft "welfare for the needy" and "taxes for the productive". Read some books buys. Also, if the current monetary system is flawed, what does the filmaker suggest, return to the gold standard? As if gold doesnt fluctuate in value by new findings of gold ore, or lack of theroff. Ever heard of something called a deflationary spiral? People hoarding gold, or people digging for gold, creates zero "intrinsic value" for an economy. Also dont forget that we are living in the best times in history. Even some of the lowest income americans have access to goods and services that not even a monarch would have access to a few hundred years ago. Books to read: The Machinery of Freedom - David Friedman Human Action - Ludwig von Mises Atlas Shrugged - Ayn Rand also, Basic Economics - Thomas Sowell

we are able to live better than an ancient monarch because of technology not economy or politics you retarded dumbfuck, if you have seen the movie you would realize that its exactly what they purpose actually, its focusing in technology and technology alone, not on economics and politics.

Also if you dont believe big corporations outsourcing employment in sweatshops in fucking india is not exploitation you are a moron, 10% of the world population owns 90% of the wealth, does that ring any fucking bell to you?.

Atleast have the fucking decency to watch the movie before posting your retardation in the thread, why in the fuck did u even mention gold, they dont mention it a single time in the movie, they aim for oversupply coming from technology rendering a monetary system useless.

you're making this point with the assumption that people will not take more than they need, when in fact that is the exact opposite of human nature. This is what precisely separates us from the "other animals" that live to fulfill their basic functions and then die off after making some type of contribution to the natural order. Humans have the added ability to reason, scheme, plan, articulate, etc. to ensure their own survival (regardless of personal motivation to hoard anything). To say that a hippy colony will become the shining beacon of hope for all mankind to adore and model itself after would mean that humans have lost the option to use reason.

Don't get me wrong, I fucking hate hippies. All it would take to topple the organization is for someone to follow through a selfish thought with action. From an evolutionary standpoint, going back to barter mode would be historical suicide.

I'm basing these thoughts on some philosopher that argued reason separated us from animals. I think it was Aristotle

If 10% of the world population DIDNT own 90% of the wealth, i'd be way more shocked. The thing is, they should own MORE than 90%.

I'm pretty sure the top 1% of the population is responsible for the creation of 90-95% of total wealth. Just think about people who innovate not only in
technology but methodology..

It's like the POKER universe, some people are born with the gift, and 99% are losing players...
Scientists/geniouses/leaders/innovators/etc. produce virtually everything the mob consumes, and welfare exists so that these people wont steal it all.

I think the single most important invention for society is the birth control pill. Imagine if the poor continued having 8 children each like in the 50's all around
the world.

Oh, and if you think the Indian 10 year old child is FORCED to work at the NIKE sweatshop then you are very very alienated.
working there is better than starving dont u think?

Equality is an utopia, people are born vastly unequal with vastly unequal skills and productivity capacity. Why they whould have similar wealth if they produce so differently?
I've never seen a hippie that produced something.. and these movies like Zeitgeist, michael moore shit, the corporation, and neo-hippie-communist bullshit piss me off.

oh, and please dont vote for BARACK! he will bloat up government in the US and china will take over on 20 years..

Mccain's proposals are very much like Margaret Thacher, Ronald reagan did to the world in the 80's wich made americas and britains superstrong economy of today.
Be more rational and less romantic/sentimental. Vote with your brains

r3v allow me a few moments to carefully tear you apart

Good stuff. Another nice little eye opener is Howard Zinn's, The People's History of the United States

On October 05 2008 20:47 r3v wrote: If 10% of the world population DIDNT own 90% of the wealth, i'd be way more shocked. The thing is, they should own MORE than 90%. I'm pretty sure the top 1% of the population is responsible for the creation of 90-95% of total wealth. Just think about people who innovate not only in technology but methodology..

Much of what this top 1% of the population create is inherently biased to survive in our current monetary system. Do you think the scientists and researchers sitting in their labs are free to research and do whatever it is they fancy? Of course not. They need the funding to purchase the tools and pay the people they will use to conduct their research. To get this funding, they have to show that whatever it is they are trying to invent can be sold FOR PROFIT. If I have a fantastic idea to create a machine that can fabricate food out of thin air, yet I require $100 billion dollars of backing to fund my research, who on earth is going to pledge to me $100 billion when there is no inherent profit in creating such a machine? Oh I know, we'll get the money from a giant corporation, who will then claim ownership of the machine and use it to create food at 0 cost to them, and still sell it for $$$ to the masses.

Who on earth has $100 billion to give to me to fund my research in ways in which to harness geothermal energy? Oh I know, the only people with such large sums of money are giant corporations such as the oil companies. Why would they pay that much money when they can just say 'piss off' and continue selling fossil fuels?

The disgusting thing with the monetary system is that no matter how altruistic your intentions are, you still need to do what you must to survive. To survive in such a system, you need to generate money to pay for your food, shelter, and energy. I'm studying to become a doctor and I can tell you, even though I wish to help people, there is no way in hell I'd work for free in order to heal the sick, because in doing so I'd not survive in this world myself. If basic things like food, shelter, and energy could be provided to everyone at zero cost (which with technology becomes more and more possible) then finally I'd be free to do what I want with my time, I could help others freely without worrying that when I come home there won't be a meal on my table to feed myself.

It's like the POKER universe, some people are born with the gift, and 99% are losing players... Scientists/geniouses/leaders/innovators/etc. produce virtually everything the mob consumes, and welfare exists so that these people wont steal it all.

You are seriously happy with the world being like the poker universe? The people running the tables (ie. Pokerstars) are like an empire, and you are all slaves working for them. The top % of winning players manage to grind out a profit, the vast majority of people lose and are perpetually feeding the poker economy as 'slaves', yet the entire time the empire makes guaranteed profit, so long as the game continues to be played.

I think the single most important invention for society is the birth control pill. Imagine if the poor continued having 8 children each like in the 50's all around the world.

Tell that to Africa.

Oh, and if you think the Indian 10 year old child is FORCED to work at the NIKE sweatshop then you are very very alienated. working there is better than starving dont u think?

I'd say if presented with the option of working for 50cents a day or starving, I'm basically being FORCED to choose 50 cents, because the choice of starvation is not a choice at all.

On October 05 2008 20:57 r3v wrote: Equality is an utopia, people are born vastly unequal with vastly unequal skills and productivity capacity. Why they whould have similar wealth if they produce so differently?

This is true to a certain extent, but the current monetary system vastly exaggerates this difference far more than natural differences does. Are you seriously trying to tell me that we are evolutionarily vastly superior to the sweatshop workers? Of course we fucking aren't. We can easily pick up some fabrics and stitch them together. But why should we? Our current money system keeps them as 'slaves' for us, so we don't have to do such menial labor.

I've never seen a hippie that produced something.. and these movies like Zeitgeist, michael moore shit, the corporation, and neo-hippie-communist bullshit piss me off.

Define hippie. I'd say I share many qualities of a hippie, I like helping others, I care about the environment, and I'd like world peace. I don't dress like one and I don't spend my time smoking pot, but these are all pathetic social stereotypes of what a hippie is, built by arrogant, selfish, egotistical assholes to separate 'us' from 'them'. Are you saying I am incapable of producing anything worthwhile? GTFO.

oh, and please dont vote for BARACK! he will bloat up government in the US and china will take over on 20 years..

Politics is irrelevant and delivers us nothing, because the system is so inherently corrupted and tied in with big business.

Mccain's proposals are very much like Margaret Thacher, Ronald reagan did to the world in the 80's wich made americas and britains superstrong economy of today.

Oh, the superstrong economy which is now entering recession? The superstrong consumerist economy whose eventual doom is built into its very mechanism of function?

Be more rational and less romantic/sentimental. Vote with your brains

Rationality =/= selfishness or greed.

Actually damn this was pretty bad, the whole section on how money is created was just absurd and I barely managed to make it beyond then.

I was impressed when it got to around 1 hour 5 minutes, picked up there a bit.

On October 05 2008 19:16 bane wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2008 18:32 ikc5 wrote: edit: I echo the sentiment, which parts of movie 1 did you guys think were ridiculous? If you're referring to part 1, you are a religious faggot and you should die immediately. yeah bro kill em all keep that closed mind

alright, yeah, my comment was pretty retarded. Still, I thought part 1 was very well researched and drew from multiple sources and put only a moderate amount of a slant on the information. But I guess even given all that people are impossible to convince and it's pretty useless and boring to try to open their eyes.

On October 05 2008 19:18 PokerDoc88 wrote: lol

I'm not sure how this is relevant, but it was definitely funny.

i went from liking baal, to hating baal, to loving baal, to being pretty sure i hate baal again

then because of all that

i now forever love baal

On October 05 2008 20:47 r3v wrote: Oh, and if you think the Indian 10 year old child is FORCED to work at the NIKE sweatshop then you are very very alienated. working there is better than starving dont u think?

oh you cocksucking ignorant piece of shit seriously, how can somebody be so fucking stupid.

You think its Ok for Nike to have 10yo indian kids working for them only because they do it willingly?!?!?


If i go to a starving mother with a newborn in africa and offer her a bowl of beans and a loaf of bread every day and that in exchange they have to work for me all day long in any tasks i give them, do you fucking think im a fucking philatropist or atleat a bussiness man? NO you fucktard, i should be shot to death for exploiting the situation of these people, i would be the worst kind of human being there is..... oh but im not forcing her.. and she might have died if i didnt feed her right?

edited to remove a few "FUCK YOU"

On October 05 2008 23:19 nolan wrote: i went from liking baal, to hating baal, to loving baal, to being pretty sure i hate baal again then because of all that i now forever love baal

as long as u are not indifferent im cool with it

yea that's the first time i am on Baal's side and i also think that the guy is "cocksucking ignorant piece of shit"

I was watching that movie quite tired, gonna watch it again. But i don't really understand why goverments do not start using solar, wind etc energies? what stops them from that? corporations? lack of money or w/e ?
As it was said 3 states could produce enough wind energy to supply the rest 47...

In Mexico a politician just came in the news saying that the european eolic power plants are a huge failure and that they dont produce shit... yes go Mexican!, tell those hundreds of european scientists that the billions they spent were useless... go oil go oil!!!

Oh the same guy also said Mexico is immune to the US depression, rofl mexico is the most dependant country of United States, and in less than 1 week the illegal workers stopped sending money to mexico in 20%... and to give u an idea, Mexico recieves more money from those transactions than from oil... yeah we are fucking immune bitches immune!!!



BTW anon why on earth does that rings your bell?, ill give u a bigger bell mentioned in the movie.

American deaths caused by terrorism per year: 68
Budget against terroristm (not counting war lol): 138 billion

American deaths caused by coronary diseases per year: 450,000
Budget for research on heart diseases: 3 billion



wat?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I love this forum.