Money won/lost without showdown - Page 2

Baals graph wins imo, steady winrate in both lines are rare.

i think it means that baal is consistently full of shit on the river and doesnt get looked up much which is a very good thing. either that or hes shoving a lot early in the hands (flop/turn) and running really really good

i think if you are shoving earlier in the hand with more crap you either have higher nonshowdown winnings from having people fold and lower showdown winnings cause they have better hands than you on avg or you have better hands than them on avg which means your showdown winnings go up but your nonshowdown winnings go down cause you usually ahve it

Last couple of graphs have been interesting guys. Very kewl

my nonshowdown winnigns are high coz im making plays all the fucking time lol (to the regulars)
im like 24/20 btw nothing crazy

and it might be a huge leak coz baals and dauts graph looks so much sexier
baal seems to have just the right mix but is having the right mix optimal?

i bet midian has a really high nonshowdown winnings graph

Hint hint Midian post a graph

This entire topic baffles me. I pretty much always have a steadily downsloping graph at the end of every session in Non-SD. One session in 10 or so ends up breakeven/winning a bit but my long term graph has lost an absolute shitload at Non-SD while my SD winnings are pretty damn big.

I think it really is a style thing, but I honestly find it hard to spot big differences in the play of an 'agressive, Non-SD' kinda player and myself. It seems to be greatly orientated around the small differences. I think adding considerably more light 3betting almost instantly boosts non-SD a huge amount. I've been experimenting with 3betting much more lately and almost every session when I made it my prerogative to just 3bet relentlessly, probably even in spots where overall its -EV, my non-SD has been steadily rising.

As Midian said I think it also has alot to do with floating once with your 77 on A52 or whatever and folding to a turn bet, or floating once with your JJ on a Q85 in a 3bet pot.

I honestly find it incredibly hard to actually purposfully force my non-SD into the black. I have dropped down limits before for a session with the single purpose to just make my non-SD winnings a steadily rising line, whether it makes my overall style +EV or not, and failed.

I'm not particularly bothered as my current style works fine for making the moneys, I just wonder why I literally find it almost impossible to make my non-SD consistently positive/breakeven like say Daut or Baal.

On October 29 2008 19:17 Daut wrote: i think it means that baal is consistently full of shit on the river and doesnt get looked up much which is a very good thing. either that or hes shoving a lot early in the hands (flop/turn) and running really really good i think if you are shoving earlier in the hand with more crap you either have higher nonshowdown winnings from having people fold and lower showdown winnings cause they have better hands than you on avg or you have better hands than them on avg which means your showdown winnings go up but your nonshowdown winnings go down cause you usually ahve it

No its not runing good, this graph goes the same for 200k hands, and it isnt either that people give me credit, i play really really loose and i take away many pots so i get looked up with unvelibable hands, to the point i know even if its like such a perfect spot to bluff i cant cuz they will look me up with bottom pair.

I dont want to go much in depth how i play but lets just say i play really loose and im quite stationary, i seriously doubt anyone on lpnet (even Midian) goes to showdown as much as i do.

It's mainly about just finding spots to pick up pots with strong hand reading, player reading and aggression. Building pots in order to steal them on later streets mixexd with strong hand reading can do wonders for your non-SD winnings. A lot of people are missing a lot of spots to pick up money.

My non-SD winnings are pretty ridiculous when I'm playing 4-6 tables. Selective, relentless aggression. It doesn't have to do with 3 betting. Most of the pots I pick up are from just attacking people's weaknesses. Passive players who call too much with hands that can't stand a lot of heat. They don't have the stones to just raise you out of the pot or call you down. Or giving an aggressive player opportunity to gift you some money and then shoving on him. It's about figuring out where and why people's ranges and frequencies are poorly balanced and attacking them properly. A lot of people are very, very bad at balancing their ranges in a lot of spots and it makes it really easy to define their very weak or polarized range and then to just attack, attack, attack.

And know when to back off. And why you're doing everything. Overdoing it is much, much worse than not doing it at all. You just end up owning yourself.

i play like freak too. freak post ur graph!

i have this theory that that is gonna be alot more variance in sd winnings but not so much in non-sd so having a high non-sd might be actually better

On October 30 2008 02:06 angryfishes wrote: i have this theory that that is gonna be alot more variance in sd winnings but not so much in non-sd so having a high non-sd might be actually better

non-SD winnings also have huge variance, maye bigger than showdown ones

I can't replicate those graphs as I don't have PT3, but I can show with PokerEV, this is last 100k hands, if I enumerate anymore my comp blows up.



As you can see having negative non-showdown winnings is not necessarily a bad thing. For what it's worth I 12-20 table FR

then your graph makes more sense babs
theres a lot of spots you call call fold river in full ring so won w/o showdown is lower

fwiw my won money without showdown is plus in 6max, and slightly negative in full ring

lulz

my W$WSF is 51%.
my WTSD is 27%.
my W$SD is 48%.

AF flop: 4.27
AF turn: 2.84
AF river: 2.59

On October 29 2008 23:58 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: It's mainly about just finding spots to pick up pots with strong hand reading, player reading and aggression. Building pots in order to steal them on later streets mixexd with strong hand reading can do wonders for your non-SD winnings. A lot of people are missing a lot of spots to pick up money. My non-SD winnings are pretty ridiculous when I'm playing 4-6 tables. Selective, relentless aggression. It doesn't have to do with 3 betting. Most of the pots I pick up are from just attacking people's weaknesses. Passive players who call too much with hands that can't stand a lot of heat. They don't have the stones to just raise you out of the pot or call you down. Or giving an aggressive player opportunity to gift you some money and then shoving on him. It's about figuring out where and why people's ranges and frequencies are poorly balanced and attacking them properly. A lot of people are very, very bad at balancing their ranges in a lot of spots and it makes it really easy to define their very weak or polarized range and then to just attack, attack, attack. And know when to back off. And why you're doing everything. Overdoing it is much, much worse than not doing it at all. You just end up owning yourself.

Yeah I basically do this too.

Seems like people who have negative graphs at non-sd don't pick up enough pots in obvious spots.

Example: like when it's a 3way limped pot (one guy limping, small blind coming in and you're on the bb) and you have no showdown value on a very dry board and not betting it when SB checks. Stuff like that.

On October 29 2008 22:13 angryfishes wrote: i bet midian has a really high nonshowdown winnings graph

Not particularly, however this month's non SD winnings are really high.

Quite a few screenshots here, but here ya go:

Since I restarted playing on the 8th August





This month:

so i guess i suck at poker :-(

I think it really depends of how many tables you play, if you are 4 tabling and have negative non-sd you are playing too weak but if you 24 table you are gonna have them in the negative but its ok.

Anyway here is my graph for the last 3 months on FR

On October 30 2008 06:05 ToT)MidiaN( wrote: Show nested quote + On October 29 2008 22:13 angryfishes wrote: i bet midian has a really high nonshowdown winnings graph Since I restarted playing on the 8th August

Stop copying my graph 8D