KK vs random donkey ?

Submitted by : JohnnyMoss

***** Hand 1226087102 *****
1.00/2.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - Saturday, September 06, 2008 6:15:59 PM
Turbo TH 32 (Real/Cash Game)
Seat 1: parrot999 (173.51)
Seat 2: ÀÐÒÈÑÒ (355.65)
Seat 3: leinad55 (161.75)
Seat 4: wtfichigo. (442.25)
Seat 5: tiribochi (401.25)
ÀÐÒÈÑÒ post SB 1.00
leinad55 post BB 2.00

Holecards
tiribochi
wtfichigo. Fold
tiribochi Raise to 7.00
parrot999 Fold
ÀÐÒÈÑÒ Call 7.00
leinad55 Call 7.00

Flop (Pot : $21.00)

   
ÀÐÒÈÑÒ Check
leinad55 Check
tiribochi Bet 21.00
ÀÐÒÈÑÒ Call 21.00
leinad55 Fold

Turn (Pot : $63.00)

   
ÀÐÒÈÑÒ Check
tiribochi Bet 58.00
ÀÐÒÈÑÒ Call 58.00

River (Pot : $179.00)

   
ÀÐÒÈÑÒ Bet 134.25
????????????????

shove

edit: if ppl slowplay sets on drawy boards then I'll pay them off...

I see very little value in shoving, calling looks best

I would shove and lose to A2c

hes got about 130 behind

vs his calling range

35 games 0.005 secs 7,000 games/sec

Board: 3c Jc Ts 2h 2s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.857% 51.43% 01.43% 18 0.50 { KcKh }
Hand 1: 47.143% 45.71% 01.43% 16 0.50 { TT+, 33, AJs, Ac2c, AJo }



if he calls with JT which i think this type of player will

44 games 0.072 secs 611 games/sec

Board: 3c Jc Ts 2h 2s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 62.500% 61.36% 01.14% 27 0.50 { KcKh }
Hand 1: 37.500% 36.36% 01.14% 16 0.50 { TT+, 33, AJs, Ac2c, JTs, AJo, JTo

On September 06 2008 11:34 Yugless wrote: hes got about 130 behind vs his calling range 35 games 0.005 secs 7,000 games/sec Board: 3c Jc Ts 2h 2s Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 52.857% 51.43% 01.43% 18 0.50 { KcKh } Hand 1: 47.143% 45.71% 01.43% 16 0.50 { TT+, 33, AJs, Ac2c, AJo } if he calls with JT which i think this type of player will 44 games 0.072 secs 611 games/sec Board: 3c Jc Ts 2h 2s Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 62.500% 61.36% 01.14% 27 0.50 { KcKh } Hand 1: 37.500% 36.36% 01.14% 16 0.50 { TT+, 33, AJs, Ac2c, JTs, AJo, JTo

lol @ these ranges

i'd include J9, KJ, QJ, AT, KT, QT some stupid AcXc which dosnt even have a pair but will call cause hes commited now

I think TT+ is also a silly range since it's almost inconceivable (even for most bad players) to have QQ-AA here

im just trying to show that we're flipping or ahead of a tight calling range

call

On September 06 2008 10:44 royalsu wrote: shove edit: if ppl slowplay sets on drawy boards then I'll pay them off...

I just think you catch him bluffing more than half the time here with a busted straight draw or something so I'd prolly just flat.

On September 06 2008 14:07 JonnyCosMo wrote: I just think you catch him bluffing more than half the time here with a busted straight draw or something so I'd prolly just flat.

lol so what, the thing is if he call us with worse over 50% than with better and this is obviouslyt he case.

shove always

On September 06 2008 17:14 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On September 06 2008 14:07 JonnyCosMo wrote: I just think you catch him bluffing more than half the time here with a busted straight draw or something so I'd prolly just flat. lol so what, the thing is if he call us with worse over 50% than with better and this is obviouslyt he case. shove always

Fancy math sir!

What kind of range are you putting him on for taking this line and lead/calling the river?

I'd call, I don't see him calling a shove with a worse hand. I think he's showing bluffs a lot here.

you realize if we shove hes getting $130 to win $570, fish will convince himself to call here VERY often

call

he can valuebet here one pair? after playing two streets by c/c?
shouldn't it be missed draw ( KQ/98/clubs - and can he play like this missed draw OOP? ) or something that beats us ( A2cc/33/TT )? + JT

also 'random donkey' is 40/3/0.7 or 30/10/3?

I think I'd flat also. Don't think he calls enough of the times with worse to make a shove profitable actually. Could be that he called 2 streets with a deuce as well.. hands like A2cc or pretty much any flush draw with a deuce.

I think he almost always has a missed draw here though. I'd be content with just flatting here and taking a note.

rofl u guys are insane, he has to call 130 to win 570, he calls with ANY hand that has showdown value, for example, any jack and most Ts, if he has TT or 33 so be it -_-

bah.. just call and save some money if you're beat

I have no idea how a jack or a ten is in his range when he leads the river. This is just such a standard spot where villian has a monster or air and he is going to have 2x or 33 more often than Jx 10x when he lead/calls the river because nobody fucking leads a jack here wtf

On September 09 2008 05:27 SakiSaki wrote: I have no idea how a jack or a ten is in his range when he leads the river. This is just such a standard spot where villian has a monster or air and he is going to have 2x or 33 more often than Jx 10x when he lead/calls the river because nobody fucking leads a jack here wtf

This.

you say he does some stupid things but the answer to this question lies in how stupid the villain really is. if hes mildly retarded (range here is boats, trips(?), and bluffs) then we call. if he is absolutely braindead and his leading range can include Jx then we shove. either way his line is asssssssssssssssssss

he has 33 ,,.,.,.,.,., i dont think he call call and bet one pair here ,he has a monster or missed draw most of the time

So you shoved or called?

he has JT

shove.

On September 09 2008 07:07 n0rthf4ce wrote: you say he does some stupid things but the answer to this question lies in how stupid the villain really is. if hes mildly retarded (range here is boats, trips(?), and bluffs) then we call. if he is absolutely braindead and his leading range can include Jx then we shove. either way his line is asssssssssssssssssss

yaya me & peachy are sharing brain waves recently. I feel like im going to be high stakes pro soon!

I'm kind of drunk right now so don't berate me too hard if what I say doesn't make sense, but imma simple kinda guy so imma drop that simple kind of knowledge on you guys right now, check it:

In spots like this I like to read the situation by villan's bet sizing. If their bet size is on the smaller side, I can more easily interpret the bet to be some sort of blocker bet with a marginal to good holding (for example in this case, if he made some lead like $60 or $80ish or something gay like that I'd read that for a pretty wide range such as missed draw bluffs / JX and sometimes as weak as TX). The reason for this is that *he thinks* the smallish bet has the intent to stop you from value betting them to a bigger amount. On the flip side, if they are leading an amount that is much closer to an amount that you would have value bet yourself, more often than not it is because they are seeking the same type of value you'd be seeking if you got checked to on this river. Obv this is mainly because he doesn't really give a shit to what you might have because he thinks he has the best hand. Therefore I'd read his range on the river to be more polarized the bigger the bet he makes on the river. The more polarized his range is on the river, the less profitable a shove becomes. See how that works? How good do you feel with KK here if he just ships $265 as his river bet? To me, it's really feel like I only beat a bluff in that situation and vs most idiots who are incapable of trying that kind of bluff in this spot you might find a fold.

And on a side note, Baal sucks at poker.

On September 09 2008 05:27 SakiSaki wrote: I have no idea how a jack or a ten is in his range when he leads the river. This is just such a standard spot where villian has a monster or air and he is going to have 2x or 33 more often than Jx 10x when he lead/calls the river because nobody fucking leads a jack here wtf

And I disagree with this, I've seen plenty of random people lead a jack or a ten here, but usually with a smaller bet.

And villan's line in this hand sucks some huge cock no matter what he has

I call there

On September 09 2008 05:27 SakiSaki wrote: I have no idea how a jack or a ten is in his range when he leads the river. This is just such a standard spot where villian has a monster or air and he is going to have 2x or 33 more often than Jx 10x when he lead/calls the river because nobody fucking leads a jack here wtf

*taps nose*

just call

Yeah you could make an ev calc to see whats better, but I suspect the EV of a call is higher than a shove.