uncanny ability in a live game

I need help
Last night I went to a very soft tourney-then-cash game that I went to a year or so ago before I started moving like a f*n banshee.
So the dealer has this simply amazing ability, as early in the tourney I bluff on the turn with a gutshot and get called, hit on rvr and bet and the guy folds..
I muck my hand and the dealer says, "Man it must be nice to bet your gutshot then hit it."
w.
t.
f.
He then proceeds to deal the cash game until having his shift switched with another dealer he leaves for an hour to come back with a few friends.
He then calls out another persons hand, and the dealer he switched with says "wow there is that uncanny ability you have again, I've seen you do this night after night, it's just scary."
His reply, "Ya it is but as always I'll just blow it on some stupid hand where I know I'm beat and just screw it/pay it off anyhow."
ya ok
I then raise/double barrel against someone w/ 9dTd on A37Jr and give up on rvr and the dealer/player calls my hand again, "you've nine ten" he says.
I show my hand...

I ask him since he has such an uncanny ability why is he not at the highest level game?
"Because he is fucking retarded" an ex marine/dealer quickly says
hmm
So I remember seeing a video I downloaded on thepokerbay when I first started explaining alot of cheating techniques, one technique in particular being marking the cards with invisible ink and wearing contacts or glasses to see what they are.
Seems like it could easily be what I'm dealing with here.
My question and reason for creating this is because I'm wondering if anyone knows more on the invisible ink stuff and can save me some time or give me some good insight?

For those wondering the conclusion of the night was the obvious hope to rape the fresh meat out of some money totally backfired as they were so bad at it and were total obvious that I ended the night with about $900 in a 1/3 game (almost everyone was shortstacked) and the cute hostess chic with a happy knowing smile towards me the whole night once she saw me up to 700 told me she will be there again on Saturday night and I should come back. I might, just to beat them at their own game again, but I want to be better prepared

just post in your blog and brag openly like a man if you want to brag that you won money playing poker. ROFL at typing all that bollocks and putting in BOLD "My question and reason for creating this is because I'm wondering if anyone knows more on the invisible ink stuff and can save me some time or give me some good insight?" YEAH IM SURE THATS WHY U MADE THE THREAD FOR THAT QUESTION AND GOOD WORK ON "BEATING THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME" THAT WAS PROBABLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING THEY WERE ALL CHEATING AGAINST YOU THATS WHY NOBODY PLAYED THEIR HANDS CORRECTLY AGAINST YOU AND THE DEALER TRIED TO GIVE IT AWAY BY TELLING YOU, ELEMENTARY MY DEAR FKING WATSON WTF KILL YOURSELF

that's really the conclusion you came to ket?
you think the MAIN purpose of that WHOLE post was to say hey I won 900$?

dumb reasoning/deduction but ok

let me help u understand my actions ket

-I didn't post in a blog because this was interesting to me and I didn't want it to get bumped out of sight after 5 other ppl post a blog
-I put the question and reason in bold because that was my main purpose for the whole thing, and I wanted it to stand out and not be ignored
-I put the conclusion to let u know the game ended on a good note for me instead of the other way around and ya sorry it felt good I should be ashamed right?

I've played more than one live game before
this was the most interesting game/situation I've ever been in tho

it was a fun read so i dont care what ur goal was =)

Ket dude you read too much in between the lines and too little of the lines themselves.

Totally blown off on the dude because of your opinion which I doubt is accurate in the current case.

On September 03 2008 15:13 Ket wrote: just post in your blog and brag openly like a man if you want to brag that you won money playing poker. ROFL at typing all that bollocks and putting in BOLD "My question and reason for creating this is because I'm wondering if anyone knows more on the invisible ink stuff and can save me some time or give me some good insight?" YEAH IM SURE THATS WHY U MADE THE THREAD FOR THAT QUESTION AND GOOD WORK ON "BEATING THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME" THAT WAS PROBABLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING THEY WERE ALL CHEATING AGAINST YOU THATS WHY NOBODY PLAYED THEIR HANDS CORRECTLY AGAINST YOU AND THE DEALER TRIED TO GIVE IT AWAY BY TELLING YOU, ELEMENTARY MY DEAR FKING WATSON WTF KILL YOURSELF

i've never seen ket mad, and this is on the internet, but wtf i'm scared.

thanks D_Zoo for the compliment
I am hoping actually to discuss and maybe learn something about live cheating tho
it really isn't a brag post
I'm going to look up stuff on cheating with invisible ink etc
would you guys continue playing in such a game?


instant messenger conversation that I am posting to give more insight:

----------------------------

you should be happy he didn't turn your hands over from the much to prove himself right    

d5:22 PM
was the most interesting game I've ever been to
5:27 PM
well I dunno
5:27 PM
the whole thing makes me think and wonder

z5:28 PM
about being cheated?

d5:28 PM
about the whole thing ya
5:28 PM
how far up it went
5:28 PM
if it was actually cheating

z5:28 PM
did you win?

d5:28 PM
yes

z5:29 PM
hmm with my near zero live experience I think I'm not of much help here

d5:30 PM
ya, I was gonna hit u up about it last night when I came home
5:30 PM
as the details where fresh
5:30 PM
I slept on it, but I keep thinking about it
5:30 PM
if I should go there again

z5:30 PM
missed me by 15 mins
5:31 PM
is it a normal casino?

d5:31 PM
lol
5:31 PM
no casinos are illegal in texas
5:31 PM
its a "unknown" cash game
5:31 PM
an*

z5:32 PM
as long as you win and they don't want to raise the stakes suddenly, you can continue playing I guess

d5:33 PM
well people that are willing to do this might take it to a higher level than just money
5:33 PM
if they keep getting beat

z5:34 PM
what higher level are you refering to?

d5:34 PM
violence

z5:34 PM
ok, was on the right track

d5:35 PM
like I said, this wasn't a casino
5:35 PM
(sorry if I'm not all here, everyones up and at it all around me atm)

z5:35 PM
np

d5:35 PM
and I'm waiting for the high stakes reg that decided to be an asshole in reply to my thread to reply

z5:40 PM
oh and congrats on the nice score btw

d5:43 PM
thanks, it was nice to walk away from that one a winner
5:43 PM
more than any other
5:43 PM
actually

z5:43 PM
why's that

d5:43 PM
heh
5:43 PM
because if they were trying to cheat me

z5:43 PM
they did a piss poor job

d5:43 PM
all the looks I was getting from dealers in the smoking room with a big glass
5:44 PM
the looks I was getting from the waitress girl
5:44 PM
the fact that the guy that ran the place said a half jokingly comment that the reason there were so many ppl there was because he sent them a text saying I was there
5:44 PM
(fresh meat)
5:44 PM
and the fresh meat won
5:44 PM
not only won but annihilated
5:45 PM
it was very good to come out of that ahead

z5:45 PM
of course

d5:45 PM
hmm

z5:47 PM
did you see any soft play between the other guys?

d6:10 PM
yes totally
6:11 PM
between about 3 of them there was tons of soft play

z6:11 PM
ok then you would probably not see me again in there
6:12 PM
to me the risk doesn't justify the reward in this case
6:12 PM
taking the other factors you mentioned earlier into account

------------------------------

but they are just so bad I'm srsly tempted

yaya...brag post just write a blog ok?

about that ink shit I really doubt it but if you're so paranoid ask Polaroid

The whole ink thing isnt really intended to mark cards with the kind of specificity you would need to make proper calls in poker. I thought people just marked high cards and low cards for blackjack, so you have a range to bet with. Either way you realize if you ever got caught you would get killed outside the table in the parking lot right?

why would the dealer cheat... LOL?

On September 03 2008 15:13 Ket wrote: just post in your blog and brag openly like a man if you want to brag that you won money playing poker. ROFL at typing all that bollocks and putting in BOLD "My question and reason for creating this is because I'm wondering if anyone knows more on the invisible ink stuff and can save me some time or give me some good insight?" YEAH IM SURE THATS WHY U MADE THE THREAD FOR THAT QUESTION AND GOOD WORK ON "BEATING THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME" THAT WAS PROBABLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING THEY WERE ALL CHEATING AGAINST YOU THATS WHY NOBODY PLAYED THEIR HANDS CORRECTLY AGAINST YOU AND THE DEALER TRIED TO GIVE IT AWAY BY TELLING YOU, ELEMENTARY MY DEAR FKING WATSON WTF KILL YOURSELF

wtf...

On September 03 2008 18:13 Baal wrote: why would the dealer cheat... LOL?

are u kidding?

I don't think you guys realize how specific this guy was calling ppls cards, more than once...he did this about a dozen times in 5 hours, and not like oh you have a small pcket pair, he would say sixes, and be right - everytime

I am not saying 100% for sure he was cheating and had the cards marked, but there were definite signs of it, and I'd like to get more information about it

but obv not here =[

hi lachlan

oh and encase I was misread let me reiterate
the dealer ended his shift, and came back with 2 of his friends who all definitely softplayed each other, and none of them bought in full

I don't know if they couldn't as $300 would be to much to risk or they just chose not to

lol omg wtf.

it's just logical deductive thinking based on prev action, image, history, tells etc.

I remember some dude jokingly called me a psychic for a good 2 months at my local card room. It's not uncommon to call out the most likely holding in his range and be right sometimes... lol

Is this some underground card room?
Did his friends win money?

if he was cheating you would never know...

ya it's an underground card room
actually I think the 3 broke about even

and no YoMeR trust me this was more than deductive reasoning
never saw the dealer before in my life, I hadn't played 5 hands in the tourney and it was the very first one I played when he says it must be nice to bet the turn and hit your gutshot when I had 6c9c in position on a 3T8Q 7 river
I'm talking exacts, not a "oh he has either this or this"
and the dealer that took his place says he does it all the time and I was witness to it at least a dozen in 5 hours

but w/e lets move along as I feel I'm

here

lol

remember potripper?

cheaters don't always do a good job of keeping it a secret

if you're thinking "YEAH OK THE DEALER TRIED TO GIVE IT AWAY BY TELLING YOU, ELEMENTARY MY DEAR FKING WATSON WTF KILL YOURSELF"

then just lol

aww fuck I was giving up here but I think I realized why there is some mass confusion or misunderstanding

my dumbass didn't state clearly enough that the dealer ended up PLAYING in the game with his 2 friends when his shift ended
I just said his shift ended and he came back with 2 friends

well anyhow
some of the stuff I found

definitions:
Luminous marked cards - These can only be read by using special gimmicked sunglasses or by wearing contact lenses. The original luminous systems used red lenses and greenish ink on the back of red cards

Daub - A special paste is used by a player to mark someone else's deck, on-the-fly, while the cards are being used during a game and even while being watched. This eliminates the need to switch in a pre-marked deck of cards.

Juice dust - An advanced type of daub, it may be used to make an ad-hoc juiced deck. Like daub it also allows a player to mark someone else's deck, on the fly, while being watched. The main advantage of juice dust is that it will not dull the finish of the cards and works on both paper and 100% plastic playing cards.

Detection:
Reflect light off the back of the card. Cut-out-work (scratches or white ink) will display, as well as many inks or solutions tend to dull the finish on playing cards because they are alcohol based. Only the highest quality solutions will not burn the finish of cards. Placing a drop of alcohol on a card then looking at the finish by reflecting light off the back reveals the burn/dulling effect that these cheap solutions can cause

site selling and showing videos of marked cards that can get you up to speed pretty fast but hopefully you never find useful

On September 03 2008 22:22 [vital]Myth wrote: lol remember potripper? cheaters don't always do a good job of keeping it a secret if you're thinking "YEAH OK THE DEALER TRIED TO GIVE IT AWAY BY TELLING YOU, ELEMENTARY MY DEAR FKING WATSON WTF KILL YOURSELF" then just lol

But if they are cheaters why would the dealer know the cards? there is no use for him to know.

Even if it were a "dealing" cheat they know where the aces are, or who has the coolered hand but they cant possibly know if you have TcJd

ya ok I get where ur coming from Baal I didn't realize I didn't clarify well enough
my bad

the dealer ended up playing with the other 8 of us at the table

sixpeppers was at the wynn and he had a dealer take his cards after a huge hand that wasnt shown down, and he threw um on top of the muck in a way that when he pulled the deck to straighten out all the cards he could see sixpeppers 2 cards sticking out of the muck at a diff angle then the rest.. kinda hard to explain in text.. but if he was calling cards while they were still in ur hand then i duno.

if i had a dealer call out hands like 5 times that had no reason why he could figure a range down that much.. then he sat at the table.. id just get up and go, or possibly go b4 that.

ya the cards were still in my hands or whoevers hands every time

God I love ket so much. He always calls people out on their bullshit with extreme rage in such a perfect way.

I wish every forum had a ket, the world would be a much better place imo.

lol i also love ket's calls outs, but this time he definitelly fucked up imo.

since ur in a casino u can always ask to change the carddeck or what

ket rampages are so awesome it doesn't even matter if they're warranted or not

Did you read "Ace on the river", Greenstein enlights the situation you are in and he said if you have a remote doubt about the fairness of the game you should just leave. But you have to admit the dealer would be retarded to give away his "incredible reading skills" if they were cheating, really sounds like he got lucky and called hands correctly. Now it's your call to go back or not, good luck dude.

On September 03 2008 22:22 [vital]Myth wrote: lol remember potripper? cheaters don't always do a good job of keeping it a secret if you're thinking "YEAH OK THE DEALER TRIED TO GIVE IT AWAY BY TELLING YOU, ELEMENTARY MY DEAR FKING WATSON WTF KILL YOURSELF" then just lol

POTRIPPER got caught because they sent the whole history with hole cards revealed, even if players smelled something fishy for obvious reasons like his T hi call they would have never be any scandal if someone in AP didn't volontary send the evidence.

why even bother going back to a game which you think is unfair? you got lucky. go find a better place to play imo

On September 04 2008 06:07 Baal wrote: lol i also love ket's calls outs, but this time he definitelly fucked up imo.

it was a pretty tongue in cheek reply mainly aimed at getting some 'lols', im a little surprised you fools all took my post so seriously and thought i was making a genuine angry rant. i wasnt gonna bother to reply to this thread but enough people misunderstood the intentions of my post that i will reply. sorry if i caused any offense to tloapc i was just killing time by posting on the internets in the way i like to post. if i wanted to do a real call-out you would know it, and this most def wasn't it.

anyhou yeah it makes a lot more sense if the dealer actually played afterwards and shouldve been mentioned originally. because it wasnt mentioned it didnt make any sense that op could feel hes being cheated, so bragging would be the only explanation for the op in the absence of this info.

that said i still think theres an element of thinly veiled bragging even if its a legit thread after all and op would be lying to deny it. not that theres much wrong with thinly veiled bragging, everyone does it. who gives a crap plz dont get riled up over what ppl post in caps lock on the internets plz

On September 03 2008 22:22 [vital]Myth wrote: lol remember potripper? cheaters don't always do a good job of keeping it a secret if you're thinking "YEAH OK THE DEALER TRIED TO GIVE IT AWAY BY TELLING YOU, ELEMENTARY MY DEAR FKING WATSON WTF KILL YOURSELF" then just lol

forget the others who don't know me, id have thought YOUd have been one to realise im wasting time making random spammy replies!

On September 04 2008 08:25 whamm! wrote: why even bother going back to a game which you think is unfair? you got lucky. go find a better place to play imo

/endthread

Everything suddenly seems more interesting and thread-worthy if there's a part of the story where you ...uhmm... own people at poker for example.

So I'm with Ket on this, even after his explanation.

to me ket you caused much more surprise than offense
thought it was venting or something I dunno
water under the bridge here

I can see how it could be deemed a thinly veiled brag as if all I wanted to know was info on ink usage on cards I coulda just made a thread asking if anyone had any info or experience with the subject ya?
but making my posts at least enjoyable or positive to read and hopefully worth someones time is something I like to do as the negativity/flaming/whining/selfishness etc is very easy to find anywhere online
so I thought in writing I could kill two birds with one stone, so yes I used a positive experience which I'll agree is me bragging
wasn't my main intent
just wish I said the dealer came back and played but ah well shit happens

agreed with /endthread

On September 04 2008 09:13 tloapc wrote: to me ket you caused much more surprise than offense thought it was venting or something I dunno water under the bridge here I can see how it could be deemed a thinly veiled brag as if all I wanted to know was info on ink usage on cards I coulda just made a thread asking if anyone had any info or experience with the subject ya? but making my posts at least enjoyable or positive to read and hopefully worth someones time is something I like to do as the negativity/flaming/whining/selfishness etc is very easy to find anywhere online so I thought in writing I could kill two birds with one stone, so yes I used a positive experience which I'll agree is me bragging wasn't my main intent just wish I said the dealer came back and played but ah well shit happens agreed with /endthread

lol stop defending urself

good point

Pretty sure its cheating if youre not making it up.

On September 04 2008 09:40 tloapc wrote: good point

LOL, i"d grab a pen and tap this little mother fucker's balls

On September 04 2008 05:43 SakiSaki wrote: God I love ket so much. He always calls people out on their bullshit with extreme rage in such a perfect way. I wish every forum had a ket, the world would be a much better place imo.

lol agreed

that first post is so quote worthy

ROFL the balls

if what you say is not fabricated he was 100% cheating.