Bad Call late in tourney?

I'm not really sure but I really thought I was making a good call here.

Submitted by : [GiTM]-Ace

PokerStars Game #19800186008: Tournament #102283189, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVIII (2500/5000) - 2008/08/21 - 22:49:17 (ET)
Table '102283189 111' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: kdog1102 (83096 in chips)
Seat 2: JTflop (51430 in chips)
Seat 3: Mikedagreat1 (119440 in chips)
Seat 4: jd & coke15 (41942 in chips)
Seat 5: 1Gary (77481 in chips)
Seat 6: KranklHansi (108942 in chips)
Seat 7: scor1348 (57988 in chips)
Seat 8: doorite (164288 in chips)
Seat 9: compster (68022 in chips)
kdog1102: posts the ante 500
JTflop: posts the ante 500
Mikedagreat1 : posts the ante 500
jd & coke15: posts the ante 500
1Gary: posts the ante 500
KranklHansi: posts the ante 500
scor1348: posts the ante 500
doorite: posts the ante 500
compster: posts the ante 500
1Gary: posts small blind 2500
KranklHansi: posts big blind 5000

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Mikedagreat1
scor1348: folds
doorite: folds
compster: folds
kdog1102: folds
JTflop: raises 45930 to 50930 and is all-in
Mikedagreat1 : calls 50930
jd & coke15: folds
1Gary: folds
KranklHansi: folds

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $113,860.00)

   

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $113,860.00)

   

River (Pot : $113,860.00)

   

Showdown
JTflop: shows (a pair of Sevens)
Mikedagreat1 : shows (high card King)
JTflop collected 113860 from pot

Summary
Total pot 113860 | Rake 0
Board  
Seat 1: kdog1102 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: JTflop showed and won (113860) with a pair of Sevens
Seat 3: Mikedagreat1 showed and lost with high card King
Seat 4: jd & coke15 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 1Gary (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: KranklHansi (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: scor1348 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: doorite folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: compster folded before Flop (didn't bet)

might as well find out if my shove after was correct as well?
Submitted by : [GiTM]-Ace

PokerStars Game #19800382192: Tournament #102283189, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVIII (2500/5000) - 2008/08/21 - 22:58:27 (ET)
Table '102283189 111' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: kdog1102 (71096 in chips)
Seat 2: JTflop (90360 in chips)
Seat 3: Mikedagreat1 (56510 in chips)
Seat 4: henryphillip (135706 in chips)
Seat 5: 1Gary (171962 in chips)
Seat 6: KranklHansi (103942 in chips)
Seat 7: scor1348 (44988 in chips)
Seat 8: doorite (114807 in chips)
Seat 9: compster (96522 in chips)
kdog1102: posts the ante 500
JTflop: posts the ante 500
Mikedagreat1 : posts the ante 500
henryphillip: posts the ante 500
1Gary: posts the ante 500
KranklHansi: posts the ante 500
scor1348: posts the ante 500
doorite: posts the ante 500
compster: posts the ante 500
1Gary: posts small blind 2500
KranklHansi: posts big blind 5000

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Mikedagreat1
scor1348: folds
doorite: folds
compster: folds
kdog1102: folds
JTflop: folds
Mikedagreat1 : raises 51010 to 56010 and is all-in
henryphillip: folds
1Gary: calls 53510
KranklHansi: folds

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $121,520.00)

   

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $121,520.00)

   

River (Pot : $121,520.00)

   

Showdown
1Gary: shows (a straight, Eight to Queen)
Mikedagreat1 : shows (a pair of Queens)
1Gary collected 121520 from pot

Summary
Total pot 121520 | Rake 0
Board  
Seat 1: kdog1102 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: JTflop folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Mikedagreat1 showed and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 4: henryphillip (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 1Gary (small blind) showed and won (121520) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 6: KranklHansi (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: scor1348 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: doorite folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: compster folded before Flop (didn't bet)

hand 1, i fold, but i'm a nit.
hand 2, standard i think ;o

I fold both


if anything I am more likely to raise the A5 to 15k than I am to push it

i think raising a5 and folding is really bad

i wouldn't fold it if I raised


but raising and calling off the rest of your stack is often superior to just going allin


1.) it can scare weak players

and

2.) it gives ur opponents a chance to try to bluff you with a weaker hand, whereas if you just push they are insta calling with a better hand anyways



but really I would be more likely to do that with something a9 or KQ than a5. but as I said I fold a5 there

whoa no offense but i see two hands played terribly.

Hand 1 - fold pf. Theres no point in losing half your stack. Anytime someone does that they either have an A or a pp. Knowing this, i knew you were beat b4 i looked down to see what he had. Plus, you have 2 other guys w/ the stack to call him after you play. If they have a hand they might shove and make you have to go allin. Now your down to two scenarios...Fold and lose 1/2 your stack for call and risk getting knocked out by a shove and and re-shove and all you have is a measley KJo :/

Hand 2 - Fold pf. You have roughly 10 bb. that gives you PLENTY of time to wait for pp or AK AQ etc to shove and get your stack back up. Not as bad as hand 1, but you def had time to wait for a better opprotunity. Plus if your image at that table was loose, it's instacall if they have a decent hand. I ran into that a couple tournies ago where i was playing like a madman...wayyy different from what i normally do, and my image was sooo loose and i got sooo many calls by like KQ and KJ and i'd have my AT or A8 and win... Actually i split just about every coinflip. I would win one then the next coinflip i would lose then i would win then i would lose. pissed me off.

the A5 push isn't that bad at all...

its completely standard with 9bbs but i dunno about 11

Hand one you need a read, i reshove here against some people cause they shoving a huge range. Against a random i'd just fold. Also if you are going to play the hand you should move allin after him to make it obvious to people behind you are allin and make sure they don't try anything stupid and further discourage them putting chips in. The other thing is if you lose this hand you are in push fold, and lose the ability to resteal with FE, and raise/fold preflop so that clearly has to factor in depending on table dynamics.

Hand two seems fine if the people left to act are tight, not convinced peopled in $5 donkaments are folding enough though.

yeah echo i am of the opinion that in lowstakes crap it is best to try to avoid losing as much as possible

they are so easy that there is no reason to risk 10-11bb like that

i also fold both

Ok so obv I made some big mistakes. So what Hands am I calling(shoving) with in this spot? Well in both spots actually

first one AJ+ 88+

2nd one 22+ KT+ QJ A7+

1st hand) Fold. You cant really expect to beat anything from a late position shover with king high, other than hitting your pair. They are always going to be shoving PP's and Ace high. Your stack is good, you have the blinds left to act, and no real reason to take on this opponent in such a marginal situation.

2nd hand) Shove. The antes are going to eat you up and you are going to run out of fold equity as the button orbits away from you. Only the SB can afford to take a hit making a hero call here, expect someone in the blinds to make a douche call with like, KJo or somethin


Hand ranges =

On August 22 2008 04:56 CrownRoyal wrote: first one AJ+ 88+ 2nd one 22+ KT+ QJ A7+

QFT

u just said shove the 2nd hand, and then quotes crownroyal with "QFT" when crownroyal says to fold the 2nd hand

that makes no sense at all

everything echo said is right.

snap fold first one and on the second one i would jam if i had not just lost a all in with KJ. but considering u just called off with KJ u wont get much credit because they think u r either bad or tilting so id fold.

its a 5 dollar tournament, if they have better than a5 they are calling

for god's sake people

again, yes chip stack is low and blinds are going up but imo theres still a lot of time to wait for a better hand than A5...i would say any pocket pair or AJ+...no KJ no KQ no QJ...too risky if i'm playing for as much profit as possible. wait until you make another level ITM b4 you do that.

On August 22 2008 17:57 eightfourO wrote: again, yes chip stack is low and blinds are going up but imo theres still a lot of time to wait for a better hand than A5...i would say any pocket pair or AJ+...no KJ no KQ no QJ...too risky if i'm playing for as much profit as possible. wait until you make another level ITM b4 you do that.

This is a bad range. I'm not going to tell you a better one since its easier to learn if you work stuff out yourself but 22+ AJ+ is silly

also I dont necessarily think randoms in $5 tourney will call with a6+ or whatever in that one hand.. ive made similar pushes with like, QT and had some guy behind me timebank fold and say "aq".. some of them are just really bad in the sense that theyre way way too tight with their tourney life.. but some will also happily call with any ace while folding kq.. variation in calling ranges is huge, even bigger the lower tournament you play i think..
I certainly push a5 sometimes but it just depends a lot on feel.

i've had similar experiences in micro donkaments.. it sometimes feels like these players tighten up their game when the blinds get big and they have some time invested in the tournament

On August 23 2008 08:47 Liquid`Drone wrote: also I dont necessarily think randoms in $5 tourney will call with a6+ or whatever in that one hand.. ive made similar pushes with like, QT and had some guy behind me timebank fold and say "aq".. some of them are just really bad in the sense that theyre way way too tight with their tourney life.. but some will also happily call with any ace while folding kq.. variation in calling ranges is huge, even bigger the lower tournament you play i think.. I certainly push a5 sometimes but it just depends a lot on feel.

Completely agree here.

just remember as a rule of thumb, you can shove a lot of crap and it'll never be terrible, aggresion wins in poker

just have a very tight strong calling range, that KJ call is sooo bad on many levels, you can use those 10bb to just open random hands in late position and steal blinds, whereas if you call you HAVE to have the best hand and KJo may be slightly ahead of his range but your just flipping your stack away. If your gonna call you really want 60%+ equity against their range

for the sake of god