Invest your winnings ?!? - Page 4

On August 21 2008 05:25 Baal wrote: the thing is we poker players dont want a bussiness, atleast not one that consumes money cuz we play poker for a living...

I wouldn't imagine that anyone would want a business that consumes money.

lol sorry i meant time dunno wtf i was thinking

On August 21 2008 01:06 sChOuA wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2008 14:52 TenBagger wrote: Mattias, You say that you've worked as a client advisor for US domiciled clients for 4 years. Then I am assuming that you know about securities regulations regarding solicitation of investments in the US. I also assume that you are registered with the SEC/NASD as a licensed invesment advisor? I worked for the Business that UBS has closed now after the Birkenfeld/Olenicoff case. Because some of our lcients profit from thethe bank secrecy we are obviously not licensed investment advisors in the US. However the growing business for the future is white money.   On August 20 2008 17:44 TenBagger wrote: OK, I try to give people the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise but I'm gonna go ahead and say that I think this guy mattias is worthless. here is why: Mattias talks a good game and lists the following sexy terms that may grab one's attention: "1) For US domiciled clients: - currency diversification - Access to Hedge Funds that are normally blocked for US Persons - Private Equity Investments that are not availlable on the market. - geographical diversification - security - good financial network in Switzerland" But the true intentions are evident when he lists one specific product in detail: "Furthermore so called "DVA's" might be very interesting for anyone: http://www.valorlife.com/e/investment_products/vip_privatissimo_e.html" I took a look here and this is basically a variable insurance policy. I think I've stated this before but insurance is one of the most misunderstood financial products and there is a high degree of misrepresentation. The reason for this is two fold: insurance policies, especially variable universal life policies are often quite complex and the commissions on these products are just about the highest in the industry. This creates great incentive for the salesman or "financial professional" to push this product. This is not to say that variable insurance contracts are bad. In fact, they are a great tool for the right situation. However, I highly doubt anyone in this forum is in that situation. Generally speaking, the client profile for this type of product is someone wealthy, 50+ in age that is concerned about estate planning and tax strategies. The fundamental benefit of a variable policy is that it allows the insured to invest a significant amount of money tax deferred. In exchange for this benefit, you give up liquidity and you pay significant fees. Bottom line is that this financial vehicle is rarely suitable for young people, even if you do have significant amount of investable assets. The fact that you mention that one option on a forum full of twenty somethings shows that suitablity is a secondary concern and that maximizing commissions comes first. All of what you say is true. Reason why i posted is that some of you or maybe relatives might be interested. For your information since our start July 1st, 2008 we have raised so far USD 20 Mio. and none of it is under a DVA construction. Why I did not link any investment vehicle that I like is because investing is very personal. Some may like to invest into Vietnam other prefere the Next 11 from Goldman Sachs and others again like bonds....   On August 20 2008 22:49 Ket wrote: ps, i like how schoua was responding to every post until tenbagger owned him after which his posting in the thread abruptly stopped Have been away from my computer since the last post, so sorry I could not answer :-) If you have some free time, check out www.sovereignsociety.com, think is a very good homepage. If you want to have a log-in drop me a PM. edit: @TenBagger you work also in the Financial Industry?

Mattias,

You say that you mentioned the DVA because : "Reason why i posted is that some of you or maybe relatives might be interested".

Let's be completely honest, there is one reason and one reason only that you mentioned it and that is because it generates the biggest commission for you. Of course you didn't mention no-load funds or ETFs even though they are way more suitable for most of the people on this forum because you will make no money off of it. I don't mean to be an asshole and in a way, what you did is industry standard. You want to make money and you won't make any money advising people to purchase no load funds.

But just because that is the nature of the business does not make it right. The DVA that you mentioned has a minimum 5 year lockup and if you wish to terminate it early, then you will have to pay all expenses. Those expenses are huge because it includes the fat commission that you will make on the sale. I've seen many young people purchase this type of investment and the vast overwhelming majority ends up canceling and incurring huge fees. The reason why these people purchased this investment is usually because they were mislead by their "advisor". If they truly understood the constraints on liquidity and the fees incurred by not sticking with it for 5, 10 or even 20 years in some cases, they would have never got it in the first place. Now if you really think about it, anyone advising someone to make this kind of purchase when it is not suitable for their investment objectives is no better than a scammer. It all boils down to you fucking someone over so that you can make money.

Mattias, you have two ways that you can run your business. If you are looking to do this just for the short term, then from a purely selfish standpoint, it is in your best interest to maximize your profit. Go ahead and sell variable annuities to 22 year olds that have no clue when or where they may need that money. Put people in unsuitable wrap accounts and push mutual funds with the biggest fattest load that you can find. But if you want to make a long term career out of this, my advice to you would be to think long term. This is a different era than when the 50 - 60 year old guys in your UBS office started, when they can just socialize and play some golf and people will trust them blindly and they can churn the same client over and over for 20 years without anyone noticing. We have the internet and the information age is making consumers a lot more savvy. I mean, here we are on a poker forum and you spot just got blown up. If you want to have a truly prosperous career, I believe that you need to put the needs of your client first, even if it means you make nothing on the first few transactions. Only then can you build the trust that is required and as our generation gets older and start succeeding in life, our assets will grow, and so too will your asset base. But sell a variable annutiy to a 22 year old who then suddenly realizes a year later that he needs it to buy a car or take a vacation. And when he gets hit with those termination fees and only gets back 80 or 90 cents on the dollar, then while you might've made a quick couple thousand, you've lost a client for life.

Yeah so build that trust and THEN fuck them over.

As long as we're talking about investing here's an idea:

www.prosper.com

Anyone check this out before? I think it's a super cool idea. Basically cuts out the bank and lets borrowers take out loans with a smaller interest rate while at the same time letting lenders earn a relatively high return. Not only is there a potential to earn money here but also to help people in need.

On August 20 2008 20:00 Baal wrote: tenbagger i want to invest halp!!!

On August 21 2008 10:56 TenBagger wrote: Show nested quote + On August 21 2008 01:06 sChOuA wrote:   On August 20 2008 14:52 TenBagger wrote: Mattias, You say that you've worked as a client advisor for US domiciled clients for 4 years. Then I am assuming that you know about securities regulations regarding solicitation of investments in the US. I also assume that you are registered with the SEC/NASD as a licensed invesment advisor? I worked for the Business that UBS has closed now after the Birkenfeld/Olenicoff case. Because some of our lcients profit from thethe bank secrecy we are obviously not licensed investment advisors in the US. However the growing business for the future is white money.   On August 20 2008 17:44 TenBagger wrote: OK, I try to give people the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise but I'm gonna go ahead and say that I think this guy mattias is worthless. here is why: Mattias talks a good game and lists the following sexy terms that may grab one's attention: "1) For US domiciled clients: - currency diversification - Access to Hedge Funds that are normally blocked for US Persons - Private Equity Investments that are not availlable on the market. - geographical diversification - security - good financial network in Switzerland" But the true intentions are evident when he lists one specific product in detail: "Furthermore so called "DVA's" might be very interesting for anyone: http://www.valorlife.com/e/investment_products/vip_privatissimo_e.html" I took a look here and this is basically a variable insurance policy. I think I've stated this before but insurance is one of the most misunderstood financial products and there is a high degree of misrepresentation. The reason for this is two fold: insurance policies, especially variable universal life policies are often quite complex and the commissions on these products are just about the highest in the industry. This creates great incentive for the salesman or "financial professional" to push this product. This is not to say that variable insurance contracts are bad. In fact, they are a great tool for the right situation. However, I highly doubt anyone in this forum is in that situation. Generally speaking, the client profile for this type of product is someone wealthy, 50+ in age that is concerned about estate planning and tax strategies. The fundamental benefit of a variable policy is that it allows the insured to invest a significant amount of money tax deferred. In exchange for this benefit, you give up liquidity and you pay significant fees. Bottom line is that this financial vehicle is rarely suitable for young people, even if you do have significant amount of investable assets. The fact that you mention that one option on a forum full of twenty somethings shows that suitablity is a secondary concern and that maximizing commissions comes first. All of what you say is true. Reason why i posted is that some of you or maybe relatives might be interested. For your information since our start July 1st, 2008 we have raised so far USD 20 Mio. and none of it is under a DVA construction. Why I did not link any investment vehicle that I like is because investing is very personal. Some may like to invest into Vietnam other prefere the Next 11 from Goldman Sachs and others again like bonds....   On August 20 2008 22:49 Ket wrote: ps, i like how schoua was responding to every post until tenbagger owned him after which his posting in the thread abruptly stopped Have been away from my computer since the last post, so sorry I could not answer :-) If you have some free time, check out www.sovereignsociety.com, think is a very good homepage. If you want to have a log-in drop me a PM. edit: @TenBagger you work also in the Financial Industry? Mattias, You say that you mentioned the DVA because : "Reason why i posted is that some of you or maybe relatives might be interested". Let's be completely honest, there is one reason and one reason only that you mentioned it and that is because it generates the biggest commission for you. Of course you didn't mention no-load funds or ETFs even though they are way more suitable for most of the people on this forum because you will make no money off of it. I don't mean to be an asshole and in a way, what you did is industry standard. You want to make money and you won't make any money advising people to purchase no load funds. But just because that is the nature of the business does not make it right. The DVA that you mentioned has a minimum 5 year lockup and if you wish to terminate it early, then you will have to pay all expenses. Those expenses are huge because it includes the fat commission that you will make on the sale. I've seen many young people purchase this type of investment and the vast overwhelming majority ends up canceling and incurring huge fees. The reason why these people purchased this investment is usually because they were mislead by their "advisor". If they truly understood the constraints on liquidity and the fees incurred by not sticking with it for 5, 10 or even 20 years in some cases, they would have never got it in the first place. Now if you really think about it, anyone advising someone to make this kind of purchase when it is not suitable for their investment objectives is no better than a scammer. It all boils down to you fucking someone over so that you can make money. Mattias, you have two ways that you can run your business. If you are looking to do this just for the short term, then from a purely selfish standpoint, it is in your best interest to maximize your profit. Go ahead and sell variable annuities to 22 year olds that have no clue when or where they may need that money. Put people in unsuitable wrap accounts and push mutual funds with the biggest fattest load that you can find. But if you want to make a long term career out of this, my advice to you would be to think long term. This is a different era than when the 50 - 60 year old guys in your UBS office started, when they can just socialize and play some golf and people will trust them blindly and they can churn the same client over and over for 20 years without anyone noticing. We have the internet and the information age is making consumers a lot more savvy. I mean, here we are on a poker forum and you spot just got blown up. If you want to have a truly prosperous career, I believe that you need to put the needs of your client first, even if it means you make nothing on the first few transactions. Only then can you build the trust that is required and as our generation gets older and start succeeding in life, our assets will grow, and so too will your asset base. But sell a variable annutiy to a 22 year old who then suddenly realizes a year later that he needs it to buy a car or take a vacation. And when he gets hit with those termination fees and only gets back 80 or 90 cents on the dollar, then while you might've made a quick couple thousand, you've lost a client for life.

k u earned my trust

wut shuld i do with my money

u guys should ship t-bag some money for his advice ;D

--- Nuked ---

On August 21 2008 10:56 TenBagger wrote: suddenly realizes a year later that he needs it to buy a car or take a vacation. And when he gets hit with those termination fees and only gets back 80 or 90 cents on the dollar, then while you might've made a quick couple thousand, you've lost a client for life.

Rounders imo; "you can sheer a sheep many times but only skin it once"

Again if we want to have this conversation (am I realize I'm bumping this thread by making this post) we should start a new thread without the spam in the OP.

I agree with the buy when everyone else is selling in theory but it seems like there's still a lot of market glossing going over right now and it's not like America is suddenly immune to cyclical pullback or a period of stagflation. I'm no expert, but if you're looking to take a positive equity position I'd heavily recommend some research to fully understand the recent monetary policy of the US (inflation), what's going on at this point with respect to mortgages (if we're out of the crisis), as well as current lending rates vs the recent history compared with the current market volatility (ie VIX) vs the recent past (ie the market premium offered over the risk free rate compared to the risk taken on by being exposed to that added volatility over a risk-free instrument). Of course you can always profit in any market and of course a buy and hold investor will surely profit off of a positive equity allocation long term but there's reason to at the very least investigate the issues and if you're still hellbent on blindly taking a position at least consider leveraging in.

Again I still think the OP is spam and thank Tenbagger for calling him out on it.

On August 20 2008 22:32 ggplz wrote: who cares about EL sometimes u just gotta check/fold your life

QFT.

My whole life has been one big check fold.

On August 21 2008 16:16 sChOuA wrote: Tenbagger, once more it's all true what you say. Thinking about it again it was maybe wrong to post the DVA product... All I wanted to do with this post is to show you some opportunity that might be intersting for you. I have no problem if someone wants to invest all his assets into some ETF's, because most of the mutual or hedge funds are just not able to outperform the ETF's. And I did not mention the DVA because it generates the most income, but because I thought it might be interesting for some. As for Fees some Hedge Funds that generate 2% upfront and on top of it yearly another 1.5%. Honestly I don't know as of today how much exactly we get on a DVA. As you do I am thinking long term and with selling the right product rather then thinking about profit's shortly you will have more success.

I must say that I'm quite impressed with the way your reaction. I put it very bluntly and you've taken my criticisms with class.

I responded harshly and people have flamed you but I understand how difficult it is to be in your position. You are judged soley on your sales numbers and the revenue that you generate and nice guys usually finish last. With all the pressure to sell, it isn't unreasonable for even decent people to push products with high commissions and put the needs of the client second

Also, I think that many people are overlooking a critical first step. There have been many threads about investing and people generally like to discuss what sectors they think will be hot or the next hot stock etc. People will often invest their money without first thinking things through and having a plan. It's kinda like just c-betting the flop without having a plan on what to do on later streets or if you get reraised, etc. The first thing everyone should be asking themselves is what they want to do in life that money will enable. What are your goals in life and how can you manage your finances to enable you to reach those goals? Do you want to buy a house or apartment? How about starting a business? You may have no idea except that you want to have the flexibility to act upon something quickly if the right opportunity comes along. There are a lot of people out there that haven't really thought this through and have no plan for their future. It might sound kinda cheesy but everyone should dig deep within and think about this for a while and come up with a plan.

The second step is to come up with a budget and manage your finances. This is the hardest part for many people. I love to spend money and I've always lived a bit above my means. But I did the math and realized that I need to save "x" amount per month to be able to have a down payment for an apartment in "x" amount of time. When you have a plan and the consequences of your spending become clear, then it becomes easier to not splurge on coke and whores for the weekend and put that money aside for more important goals.

The final step is to pick the appropriate investment vehicle for your savings. The two biggest factors in determining this is your time horizion and your tolerance for risk.

As you can see most people focus too much on the final step on where to invest and not enough on planning everything out.

nice posts TenBagger, haven't read them all but you seem to be a great asset to this community.

On August 21 2008 12:56 MaidenFan wrote: As long as we're talking about investing here's an idea: www.prosper.com Anyone check this out before? I think it's a super cool idea. Basically cuts out the bank and lets borrowers take out loans with a smaller interest rate while at the same time letting lenders earn a relatively high return. Not only is there a potential to earn money here but also to help people in need.

i put some money into the dutch version of this www.boober.nl (exact same thing) it all looks really thrustworthy but it claims really low default rates (someone not paying up) but in my 5-6 loans that i put out i already have a default within a few months... so for now im putting my investments here on hold untill i know more about what they are going to do about this guy not paying up. cause the % is very interesting but.. it all depends on the default rates you get whether its worth it.. also youll be loaning mostly to people who can't get bank loans.

about investing. i recommend a diversified basket of ETFs/mutual funds, so youll have a portfolio consisting of LARGE caps/ and some SMALL caps (i would diversify between USA/EUROPE/JAPAN), some world! real estate fund (like 10%), some BOND fund % of your portfolio equal to your age (so if your 25, 25% ) a commodity ETF 5%-10%, and some emerging market ETF/fund or BRIC ETF/fund.

whatever you do, diversify and whatever country you are in do it in a TAX EFFICIENT way. its probably different for everyone so youll just have to look into that for an afternoon.

example:

Vanguard Emerging Markets Stock Index Fund 15%
Vanguard Japan Stock Index Fund 5%
Vanguard Eurozone Stock Index Fund 20%
Vanguard U.S. 500 Stock Index Fund 20%
Vanguard Euro Government Bond Index Fund 20%
Blackrock Merryl Lynch World Mining Fund 10%
Ishares World Real Estate ex-US ETF 10%

not saying do this. just giving an example. look for the total costs of etf's/funds research shows they have to be low for you to get good returns. think 1% or lower = good. good luck everyone!

--- Nuked ---

No one ever got rich diversifying - Jim Rogers

On August 22 2008 06:49 Babs wrote: No one ever got rich diversifying - Jim Rogers

but risk of ruin when putting your whole irl bankroll on 1-2 stocks is high, you can compare it to 2 buyin bankrollmanagement for HU poker. diversifying is to decrease variance

winnings lmao.

On August 22 2008 06:56 rogier wrote: Show nested quote + On August 22 2008 06:49 Babs wrote: No one ever got rich diversifying - Jim Rogers but risk of ruin when putting your whole irl bankroll on 1-2 stocks is high, you can compare it to 2 buyin bankrollmanagement for HU poker. diversifying is to decrease variance

I told Worm you can't lose what you don't put in the middle.

But you can't win much either