On August 08 2008 06:38 SKoT wrote:
most people can see the huge facts discrepancy
I feel like I can't..
what i've learned from this is that i'm easy to manipulate.. I watched an episode of penn&teller: bullshit! about conspiracy theories that argued the exact opposite of this (about 9/11 at least) and felt 100% agreeing with it, but while watching this i felt sympathetic as well
particularly the first part about religion i really feel is correct
but anyways they can just present a bunch of facts (?) in these documentaries and I just utterly fail to see when they're facts and when they're not, and how can u? I feel like u need to study something for years to get the answer to some of these things for yourself
I hear ya jelle, same shit happened to me. I've been back and forth on the 9/11 shit for a long time, but I do feel like while I'm not sure what happened, a lot of shit is inadequately explained. As far as the facts in this movie, they do a great job of sourcing everything: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm
I feel like the religion part is the strongest and I've spent the last hour doing a bit of research and I'm still feeling confident about the religion part. The other 2 parts get a bit harder to stomach, especially cause they leave so many unanswered questions (like what happened to the people on the plane for the pentagon?). But they also bring up a lot of good questions that raise a lot of doubt (like why they won't release the independent security video from gas stations/hotels in front of the pentagon which would show the airplane).
Pokerdoc made a good point that I agree with, which is that the attempt to say a small group of powerful people are controlling everything really didn't convince me. I do think they make a good case for the idea that people have been manipulating events for personal gain, but I am not convinced it's just one group of powerful guys on a plan for world domination. I think there's lots of separate powerful guys who are selfish and they go and screw people over, sometimes they work together.
On August 08 2008 18:16 Baal wrote:
Its common sense Jelle... Steel does NOT melt at the temperature jet fuel burns, yet you can see pictures of molten metal in ground zero, that is alone absolute proof of demolition, but an even bigger one is that the towers fell at nearly gravity acceleration, which is absolutely impossible to happen naturally unless all resistance in the lower floors are removed, a building collapsing naturally would never accelerate at such rate, also no buildling in the world has ever collapsed by a fire, buildings with lower building standards than the WTC that have burned for 100 times longer than the Twin towers did, how on earth are those not definite proof that it was a controlled demolition.
This is the big thing that gets me with the 9/11 shit. the problem is that there seem to be 2 conflicting "experts" on this, some saying it was hot enough and some saying it wasn't. How do we tell which expert is telling the fucking truth? that's what I hate.
Though I have to say I'm with Baal here overall and think he's making a good argument. Keep going man =)
On August 12 2008 09:18 SKoT wrote:
Does that sound more outrageous than a giant thousands of people conspiracy to murder thousands of their countrymen/women just to get us "to get oil" and yet it doesnt seem like a huge priority for our administration to get the wells off the ground? hmm...
Yes it does mainly because you dont need thousands to pull this off, just hundreds which most of them are in high political, CIA and military rankings and obviously are by no means any liability or risk of information infiltration.
Second, you dont know history at all if you believe the leaders of empires give a shit about sacrificing a few country men to go to war for economical reasons, it happened in almost every single way int he world, even germany did it, hitler burnt his parlament claiming it was a terrorist attack and that they had to defend the nation.... .
Totally agreed. I don't know where this "thousands" number keeps coming from, but I have a hard time imagining it's much more than 100 people involved and much less than that who know the full story. I'm sure there was plenty of disinformation going on and false stories being given out. And people HAVE come out to talk about shit they've seen, but also been silenced by gag orders and ignored in the 9/11 hearings (their info doesn't make it into the final report).
On August 12 2008 18:07 k2o4 wrote:
Oh man I feel a huge reply boiling over, sorry. I just watched it and liked it a lot, and gotta reply to a bunch of people here now.
On August 08 2008 06:38 SKoT wrote:
most people can see the huge facts discrepancy
I feel like I can't..
what i've learned from this is that i'm easy to manipulate.. I watched an episode of penn&teller: bullshit! about conspiracy theories that argued the exact opposite of this (about 9/11 at least) and felt 100% agreeing with it, but while watching this i felt sympathetic as well
particularly the first part about religion i really feel is correct
but anyways they can just present a bunch of facts (?) in these documentaries and I just utterly fail to see when they're facts and when they're not, and how can u? I feel like u need to study something for years to get the answer to some of these things for yourself
I hear ya jelle, same shit happened to me. I've been back and forth on the 9/11 shit for a long time, but I do feel like while I'm not sure what happened, a lot of shit is inadequately explained. As far as the facts in this movie, they do a great job of sourcing everything: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm
I feel like the religion part is the strongest and I've spent the last hour doing a bit of research and I'm still feeling confident about the religion part. The other 2 parts get a bit harder to stomach, especially cause they leave so many unanswered questions (like what happened to the people on the plane for the pentagon?). But they also bring up a lot of good questions that raise a lot of doubt (like why they won't release the independent security video from gas stations/hotels in front of the pentagon which would show the airplane).
Pokerdoc made a good point that I agree with, which is that the attempt to say a small group of powerful people are controlling everything really didn't convince me. I do think they make a good case for the idea that people have been manipulating events for personal gain, but I am not convinced it's just one group of powerful guys on a plan for world domination. I think there's lots of separate powerful guys who are selfish and they go and screw people over, sometimes they work together.
On August 08 2008 18:16 Baal wrote:
Its common sense Jelle... Steel does NOT melt at the temperature jet fuel burns, yet you can see pictures of molten metal in ground zero, that is alone absolute proof of demolition, but an even bigger one is that the towers fell at nearly gravity acceleration, which is absolutely impossible to happen naturally unless all resistance in the lower floors are removed, a building collapsing naturally would never accelerate at such rate, also no buildling in the world has ever collapsed by a fire, buildings with lower building standards than the WTC that have burned for 100 times longer than the Twin towers did, how on earth are those not definite proof that it was a controlled demolition.
This is the big thing that gets me with the 9/11 shit. the problem is that there seem to be 2 conflicting "experts" on this, some saying it was hot enough and some saying it wasn't. How do we tell which expert is telling the fucking truth? that's what I hate.
Though I have to say I'm with Baal here overall and think he's making a good argument. Keep going man =)
Its not if its HOT enough or not... no scientist claims that Jet Fuel melts steel... and there is molten steel, GG no RE. i just listed a fuckoad of reasons why this is an obvious demolition dont ignore them :<
Also anybody can get an "expert" to say anything, its independant research what matters, and its your COMMON SENSE what matters, no fucking steel framed building has ever collapsed by fire, NO BUILDING EVER FALLS AT FREE FALL SPEED UNLESS ITS DEMOLISHED... for fucks sake, even in controlled demolitions buildings go sideways or fail to collapse completely.
On August 12 2008 18:07 k2o4 wrote:
Oh man I feel a huge reply boiling over, sorry. I just watched it and liked it a lot, and gotta reply to a bunch of people here now.
On August 08 2008 07:48 Jelle wrote:
On August 08 2008 06:38 SKoT wrote:
most people can see the huge facts discrepancy
I feel like I can't..
what i've learned from this is that i'm easy to manipulate.. I watched an episode of penn&teller: bullshit! about conspiracy theories that argued the exact opposite of this (about 9/11 at least) and felt 100% agreeing with it, but while watching this i felt sympathetic as well
particularly the first part about religion i really feel is correct
but anyways they can just present a bunch of facts (?) in these documentaries and I just utterly fail to see when they're facts and when they're not, and how can u? I feel like u need to study something for years to get the answer to some of these things for yourself
I hear ya jelle, same shit happened to me. I've been back and forth on the 9/11 shit for a long time, but I do feel like while I'm not sure what happened, a lot of shit is inadequately explained. As far as the facts in this movie, they do a great job of sourcing everything: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/sources.htm
I feel like the religion part is the strongest and I've spent the last hour doing a bit of research and I'm still feeling confident about the religion part. The other 2 parts get a bit harder to stomach, especially cause they leave so many unanswered questions (like what happened to the people on the plane for the pentagon?). But they also bring up a lot of good questions that raise a lot of doubt (like why they won't release the independent security video from gas stations/hotels in front of the pentagon which would show the airplane).
Pokerdoc made a good point that I agree with, which is that the attempt to say a small group of powerful people are controlling everything really didn't convince me. I do think they make a good case for the idea that people have been manipulating events for personal gain, but I am not convinced it's just one group of powerful guys on a plan for world domination. I think there's lots of separate powerful guys who are selfish and they go and screw people over, sometimes they work together.
On August 08 2008 18:16 Baal wrote:
Its common sense Jelle... Steel does NOT melt at the temperature jet fuel burns, yet you can see pictures of molten metal in ground zero, that is alone absolute proof of demolition, but an even bigger one is that the towers fell at nearly gravity acceleration, which is absolutely impossible to happen naturally unless all resistance in the lower floors are removed, a building collapsing naturally would never accelerate at such rate, also no buildling in the world has ever collapsed by a fire, buildings with lower building standards than the WTC that have burned for 100 times longer than the Twin towers did, how on earth are those not definite proof that it was a controlled demolition.
This is the big thing that gets me with the 9/11 shit. the problem is that there seem to be 2 conflicting "experts" on this, some saying it was hot enough and some saying it wasn't. How do we tell which expert is telling the fucking truth? that's what I hate.
Though I have to say I'm with Baal here overall and think he's making a good argument. Keep going man =)
Its not if its HOT enough or not... no scientist claims that Jet Fuel melts steel... and there is molten steel, GG no RE. i just listed a fuckoad of reasons why this is an obvious demolition dont ignore them :<
Also anybody can get an "expert" to say anything, its independant research what matters, and its your COMMON SENSE what matters, no fucking steel framed building has ever collapsed by fire, NO BUILDING EVER FALLS AT FREE FALL SPEED UNLESS ITS DEMOLISHED... for fucks sake, even in controlled demolitions buildings go sideways or fail to collapse completely.
Rofl I'm with you man, don't need to convince me. The molten steel doesn't make any sense by the mainstream explanations. And the way they fell doesn't fit either, especially #7.
InnovativeYogis.com
1
PokerDoc88 Australia. Aug 13 2008 02:50. Posts 3527
Just taking a step back on this thread and the arguments being made by both sides, firstly I'd like to mention a few observations:
1. I agree with Baal, but your method of discussion (I prefer the word discussion to argument, because argument implies there must be a victor and a defeated) does put people who don't currently believe in your point of view on the defensive. Knowledge is power, and in any instance where some new evidence or fact or suggestion comes your way which questions what you previously knew, human nature is to choose to remain ignorant rather than confront the fear and loss of empowerment of your current knowledge.
2. Everyone has the freedom to form their own opinions and believe in what they want. When we can all agree upon this fact, then we can begin to move away from 'argument' and move towards 'discussion'. Discussion is a vital part of scientific method, and this is the primary method we use to expand our horizons about what we know. This following statement may sound abstract, but it is true and should help illustrate the necessity to always keep an open mind: "We know 100% of what we already know, but what we know may only be 0.001% of what may actually be known".
3. Everyone has what I like to call a 'belief box'. This box may be divided into numerous sections: Essentially, this belief box is where we draw our certainty when we say "I believe in math, I believe in Catholicism, I don't believe men are born equal" etc. It is human nature to observe a new phenomenon and then try and make them fit into our current belief box. How ever, this is a trap. What is more important, is to be able to break the walls of our belief box, and instead of trying to make our new observation fit our existing box, we expand our box to fit and encompass our new observation.
Now, hopefully reading the above statements we can all agree that none of us will share entirely the same point of view, but that the more important thing is to be able to take in relevant information and not shut it out merely because it doesn't agree with what we already THINK we know.
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PokerDoc88 Australia. Aug 13 2008 03:00. Posts 3527
Moving back to conspiracy movies etc., here are links to a few movies and things of the sorts I have been watching in the past week. Remember, as you watch and read the following, keep in mind those 3 previous points I mentioned.
1. "Hidden symbology of the US $1 bill": A short 5 minute video where a guy discusses hidden symbols in the US $1 bill, with Illuminati and Free Masonic origins.
2. "Thirst for Justice": A series of articles discussing current conspiracy theories, how banks work, the history of current central banking system, etc. Quite a lot of useful information to be read and found here
3. "Ring of Power": A look at religion throughout history, 9/11 attacks, and some other things. There are interesting theories such as the current British Royalty are descendants of Jesus Christ who themselves are descendants of Hebrew migrants into Egypt 4000 years ago.
5. "Bohemian grove exposed!" Linked here is the 1st of a 7 part documentary on youtube, which looks at the Bohemian Grove, other secret societies, etc.
6. "Dajjal Illuminati Satanism": the 1st of a 8 part series of audio recordings on youtube, discussing the illuminati, origin of the great wars of our previous 300 years, and other such things. Images have been added by some body else, although I think the commentator made these recordings during the time of the Vietnam war.
7. "The Illuminati": A brief discussion of the Illuminati, as well as a 134-page long english translation of a document written by Adam Weishapt in 1793, detailing the creation of the Illuminati as well as other philosophical discussions about the position of the Free Masons, their duty and place in society etc.
As well as these conspiracy oriented movies, here are some others I think that should be watched so people gain a better understanding of how the world works, particularly with regards to banks and money.
1. "Money as Debt". A cartoon which explains what money is, where it comes from, how banks control the money supply of our nations, etc. (To give credit, I originally stumbled onto this movie because some one here on LP made a thread called "Banks. You".)
Now, these are all sources of information I have looked to during the past 5 days or so since watching Zeitgeist. I don't pretend to believe I know everything there is to know about these things. I am still looking and researching new things to expand my understanding of these subjects. I've read a lot of other extraneous stuff too: To be able to link and list everything I have come across would be too difficult. Having said that, some topics I think you would do well to learn about would be:
1. American war of independence: What caused it, who was involved, why it happened.
2. Banks (as previously mentioned). I think you really really REALLY need to know how they work.
3. Families of extreme wealth and infleunce in our society today, particularly the Rothschild families, where they originated, and how they seized control of the British economy following the French revolution (war between France and Britain, led by Napoleon on Frances' side).
4. The skull and bones fraternity of Yael: Another secret society. There are videos on youtube of both George Bush and John Kerry where they are asked about the nature of S&B, and they don't deny its existence at all: They merely state that its too secret for them to talk about.
errrrr "There are interesting theories such as the current British Royalty are descendants of Jesus Christ who themselves are descendants of Hebrew migrants into Egypt 4000 years ago." that is just plain retarded......
but lets not de-rail the ongoing discussion
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
1
PokerDoc88 Australia. Aug 13 2008 03:29. Posts 3527
Baal did you even read my original post? Sure the likelyhood of British Royalty being descents of Jesus Christ is small, but until you admit there is a small possibility then you can never begin to search for relevant facts to either prove or disprove your initial assumption. Here is a fact that might pique your interest and lend SOME credibility to the statement: The bloodline of the British Royal family is actually German in origin .
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PokerDoc88 Australia. Aug 13 2008 03:30. Posts 3527
btw i'm not derailing the discussion, a lot of what I posted makes reference to and provides additional information about 9/11 attacks. And the extra info I give is not exactly derailment, I like to think of it as more of an expansion, because much of it is related.
No, those retarded theories (like UFOs and other shit) just weaken information confronting "common" knowledge that expose the fucking bullshit in this plan (like bush's administration and the central bank system) and this real information is just written off as "another conspiracy looney".
It is retarded to believe that the english monarchy is decendant from an imaginary cock sucking carpenter who lived over 2,000 years ago... there is not even fucking evidence than a carpenter named Jesus even existed, and now you are trying to link it 2,000 years ago even when the ONLY book that claims its existance says he didnt have any heir.
This thread is not to discuss the existance of the Jetti, we are discussing real world issuse here, so please stop -.-
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
1
theuntelgman Netherlands. Aug 13 2008 08:02. Posts 9
read kids, READ ^^
1
PokerDoc88 Australia. Aug 13 2008 08:14. Posts 3527
Whatever Baal, the title of the thread is called "Conspiracy Movie", and the movie which is linked in the original post spends approximately 40 minutes discussing whether or not religion is real or not. Just because YOU don't want to talk about Jesus, doesn't mean others might not want to know. You can choose to completely ignore the fact that one of the videos I linked to references this theory (as well as information relevant to what you deem is the only discussion occurring here), and let others decide whether or not they wish to discuss the movie.
You sound quite hypocritical, raving about evil central banks and corrupt governments as having tyrannical power. I see you emulating the same thing here when you say things like
"This thread is not to discuss the existance of the Jetti, we are discussing real world issuse here, so please stop -.-".
I won't make another post discussing this, because this post (and the reply it will probably receive from you) are derailing the thread, and aren't relevant to the discussion.
1
PokerDoc88 Australia. Aug 13 2008 08:18. Posts 3527
In fact, the movie I linked "Rings of Power" also discusses things that aren't mentioned in any of my other movies, which ARE very relevant to your discussion, such as how the State of Columbia, the Vatican, and Central England (IIRC these are the correct names, I may be wrong though), are all essentially separate from the country they 'exist' in. ie. The Vatican is its own country, as is the State of Columbia in Washington. It talks about how America is actually not a sovereignty, but in reality it is a corporation as designated by the Queen (I'm a bit unsure of the exact details of how this is so, so I suggest you watch the movie and perhaps you'll understand better than I do what it is saying).
god i love baal
its so beautiful
why cant it be like this every single day
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
1
XeliN United Kingdom. Aug 13 2008 10:46. Posts 2365
Kerosene (the fuel used in the jet planes) does not burn at a high enough temperature to melt steel, not even close
That simple, undeniable fact (prove me wrong if you disagree) at the very worst, suggests that the portrayal of events by the US Government, Media e.t.c was not the exact reality of what happened and begs the question what did melt the steel?
At worst George Bush got drunk and pressed the tewwowize button on his fisher price laptop, and when he woke up next morning, with dog breath and a headache, decided to cover up the whole thing.
Steal City: if u want to get good at sex u need to read books. Its just like poker, u need to read
On August 13 2008 09:46 XeliN wrote:
Kerosene (the fuel used in the jet planes) does not burn at a high enough temperature to melt steel, not even close
That simple, undeniable fact (prove me wrong if you disagree) at the very worst, suggests that the portrayal of events by the US Government, Media e.t.c was not the exact reality of what happened and begs the question what did melt the steel?
At worst George Bush got drunk and pressed the tewwowize button on his fisher price laptop, and when he woke up next morning, with dog breath and a headache, decided to cover up the whole thing.
Just a thought, energy is also added by million of tons of building material falling down. I have no idea if it's enough to melt steel but it shouldn't be discarded.
Loved the movie and it's seems very fishy, if a few americans lean to think objectively I guess it served it's purpose.
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. - Robert A. Heinlein (Time Enough for Love)
On August 13 2008 09:46 XeliN wrote:
Kerosene (the fuel used in the jet planes) does not burn at a high enough temperature to melt steel, not even close
That simple, undeniable fact (prove me wrong if you disagree) at the very worst, suggests that the portrayal of events by the US Government, Media e.t.c was not the exact reality of what happened and begs the question what did melt the steel?
At worst George Bush got drunk and pressed the tewwowize button on his fisher price laptop, and when he woke up next morning, with dog breath and a headache, decided to cover up the whole thing.
Just a thought, energy is also added by million of tons of building material falling down. I have no idea if it's enough to melt steel but it shouldn't be discarded.
Loved the movie and it's seems very fishy, if a few americans lean to think objectively I guess it served it's purpose.
omg did you even take physics 101 on highschool?
a Tsunami has thousands of times more energy than the towers falling they it doesnt melt steel lol.
energy =/= heat, momentum, inertia or acceleration does not randomly convert to heat melting steel what in the fuck...
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