set of Kings on the river by Joe - Page 4

On July 17 2008 13:32 [vital]Myth wrote: tim, KKK is foldable here, though it's pretty rare. if you don't have enough FR experience to know that, then don't tell people that they should be banned for suggesting it. i have definitely seen FR regs flat a hand like 999 in a spot like this. obv the villain here can't have 999 but if we know he would flat 999 in a spot where that hand was in his range, then we probably have to fold. (i do think that the post about folding may have been a joke though)

wtf

just when i think FR can't possibly be any nittier there's always a hand like this posted where i give bad advice (i guess) and folding the 2nd nuts is good. and it seems you're always the one to correct me

sorry if i gave bad advice but i don't see how we could evvvvver consider folding here against even the nittiest of nits

On July 17 2008 17:50 whamm! wrote: Show nested quote + On July 17 2008 17:13 handbanana21 wrote: well the villain could be raising for value on the river with AK as well, which would be more prone to call a shove, so since he induced the play i think that villains range could include made hands that turned into a bluff on the river as well as AA and AK just help us out here and tell us wtf YOU had ffs ROFL

lol qft
I'd love to call myself villain sometime
the Julious Cesar syndrome

even Daut stands in awe watching Myth's nittyness

On July 17 2008 13:32 [vital]Myth wrote: tim, KKK is foldable here, though it's pretty rare. if you don't have enough FR experience to know that, then don't tell people that they should be banned for suggesting it. i have definitely seen FR regs flat a hand like 999 in a spot like this. obv the villain here can't have 999 but if we know he would flat 999 in a spot where that hand was in his range, then we probably have to fold. (i do think that the post about folding may have been a joke though)

amen to that

joe shoved and villian showed AA

On July 17 2008 17:13 handbanana21 wrote: well the villain could be raising for value on the river with AK as well, which would be more prone to call a shove, so since he induced the play i think that villains range could include made hands that turned into a bluff on the river as well as AA and AK

no. if villain is bluffing then he's not calling a raise. only AK and AA will call a shove and when we're up against a range of only AK/AA, we are losing on a shove but profiting on a call.

just take a minute and look at what i'm saying. it's EXTREMELY easy to see why shoving is bad and calling is marginal but fine.

and, at OP: lead the flop in the future

besides, villain is just never bluffing here, ever

i don't care if you claim that you bluff here, because you don't. i don't care if you think you can be turning made hands into bluffs here, because you can't

and in fact you'd probably be an even WORSE player if you DID tend to bluff like this

nobody else can advocate the folds i recommend

and even i can't make the folds i recommend

this is obv not a bluff thats why flatcalling is the worst play imo

On July 18 2008 00:49 [vital]Myth wrote: nobody else can advocate the folds i recommend and even i can't make the folds i recommend

loooooooooooooooooooooool its funny bc its true.

Corwin is teh king of "meh im beat here like 99% but fuck it I call".

Just like steve is king of the call with a bluff catcher that can't beat a bluff.

Maybe Im wrong here, if so plz correct me, but If we give him the ridic tight range of AA/AK only, there are 3 combinations of each left so the EV of a shove is the same as for a call, and since we are not even sure his range is that tight doesnt it make it more of a shove for the outside chance he has something else there that is raise calling ?

no, if you call you are getting like 4:1 or ridic massive odds, if you shove you are getting 2:1 or less AND you're risking more

plus if you shove AK is somewhat likely to fold, AND AK might not raise the river anyway, AND worse is never calling so the fact that he could have worse is irrelevant

I don't wanna give out my reads,but I know the villain and he has AA here 100% of the time.

i've been playing poker again

shoving top pair trash kicker for value non stop telling myself PLZ CALL PLZ CALL PLZ CALL

then i see this thread and i just don't know what the hell to do with myself

/life

On July 18 2008 02:45 Cro)Deadman wrote: I don't wanna give out my reads,but I know the villain and he has AA here 100% of the time.

You basically just gave out all your reads for the player

But if we are 50/50 we just split whatever is in the pot, it doesnt matter if there is 200 or 200k in it, the EV is the same.

Besides I dont think reads of this particular player are very relevant since Joe didnt have those at the time and prolly wont be playing too much 200nl fr regularly.

On July 17 2008 20:08 handbanana21 wrote: joe shoved and villian showed AA

j*&$^&$quot said &*$^#&*$( ****ing rigged site zomg &^&#^%$&


amen to that.

On July 18 2008 03:08 EvilSky wrote: But if we are 50/50 we just split whatever is in the pot, it doesnt matter if there is 200 or 200k in it, the EV is the same.

no, this isn't true at all

if we are 50% to win but we get 4:1 that's clearly far superior to getting 2:1 with the same winning %

but i think it's highly unreasonable to think we're 50% to win here. AA is just a lot more likely than AK to be shown down, especially if we shove