setmining from blinds - Page 4

On May 20 2008 01:14 chipsOwner wrote: Show nested quote + On May 20 2008 00:58 [vital]Myth wrote:   On May 20 2008 00:48 chipsOwner wrote:   On May 19 2008 20:06 Daut wrote: i flat my entire playable range in the blinds vs ep raisers you flat QQ+ ?? of course he does, lol, what would be the point of ONLY 3betting QQ+? even retards play well when your hand is face-up exactly, so im pretty confused why not to 3bet the whole playable range from the blinds instead??

wouldn't u then be playing a bloated pot oop against ranges that have adjusted to your 3bets but are still tighter than yours??

On May 20 2008 01:14 chipsOwner wrote: Show nested quote + On May 20 2008 00:58 [vital]Myth wrote:   On May 20 2008 00:48 chipsOwner wrote:   On May 19 2008 20:06 Daut wrote: i flat my entire playable range in the blinds vs ep raisers you flat QQ+ ?? of course he does, lol, what would be the point of ONLY 3betting QQ+? even retards play well when your hand is face-up exactly, so im pretty confused why not to 3bet the whole playable range from the blinds instead??

the point is that they only open raise with sick monsters anyway. so if you are trying to be really aggro to combat their nittiness, by 3betting a lot of hands, then you are REALLY often 3betting into KK and AA, which is just rofl

what are the stats of these people we are talking about that we should fold TT pf ?

i mean if we are so often 3betting AA-KK then setmining with PP is super profitable cuz our implied odds are huge

On May 20 2008 03:25 Baal wrote: what are the stats of these people we are talking about that we should fold TT pf ? i mean if we are so often 3betting AA-KK then setmining with PP is super profitable cuz our implied odds are huge

yeah don't listen to daut, it's complete nonsense to fold TT due to somebody having an ultra-nit range, when you can just setmine instead. and even if you think setmining is bad because they never stack off, then you should call with any 2 and just force them to fold almost every time.

but as for their stats, there are tons of FR regs with under 10% pfr, and they just limp JJ utg

On May 20 2008 04:17 [vital]Myth wrote: it's complete nonsense to fold TT due to somebody having an ultra-nit range

that is, with 100bb in play facing an open raise to 4 (or fewer) bb.

i am 1000% positive if someone calls my 4x utg raise in full ring in the small blind with tens they are losing money
you can go ahead and keep thinking they can somehow make money by increasing their bluff frequency and i wont notice it and will lose to them

thats in a tough game at least
in softer games where i am loosening up significantly utg....thats a diff story, and its probably profitably to play stuff like KQs and down to 77 because the players are much worse and my range is much wider

the key point is you are oop, youre up against a good player who understands what your range is fairly well in spots and knows fairly well when you have it/when you dont. you arent going to magically start outplaying someone who is good that has a tight range when youre out of position and not really that deep.


you should be defending with the top 75% of their range in the big blind i believe, and maybe a little bit tighter in the sb.
so ifthey are opening 88+ AK, you should be defending TT+ AK in bb, slightly tighter in sb

if they are opening 22+ AJ+ and big suited connectors, you should be defending 66+, AQs, AK in bb, slightly tighter in sb.

the deeper you get bb wise or the smaller the opponent raises effectively (like if he minraises or 3xs instead of 4x'ing) the more hands you should be playing because once someones hand is pretty face up and yours is not and the stacks are deep enough then you can really take advantage of situations and it becomes worth it to run more serious bluffs a bit often.

nice quad post daut, really good info

On May 20 2008 08:15 Daut wrote: the key point is you are oop, youre up against a good player who understands what your range is fairly well in spots and knows fairly well when you have it/when you dont. you arent going to magically start outplaying someone who is good that has a tight range when youre out of position and not really that deep. you should be defending with the top 75% of their range in the big blind i believe, and maybe a little bit tighter in the sb. so ifthey are opening 88+ AK, you should be defending TT+ AK in bb, slightly tighter in sb if they are opening 22+ AJ+ and big suited connectors, you should be defending 66+, AQs, AK in bb, slightly tighter in sb.

are we talking about gap concept here.. daut?
yes this makes perfect sense .. but this is against some realy good TAG and LAG players

if utg raiser is realy bad tag lets say.. who probably don't know when to fold good hands then setmining with any PP even from blinds is very profitable for us..
and thx God that very very big % of players on micro stakes are very very bad

agree if guy cant fold or puts in way too much money every hand then its good to setmine
or if he 3x's its good to as well

On May 20 2008 13:46 Daut wrote: agree if guy cant fold or puts in way too much money every hand then its good to setmine or if he 3x's its good to as well

if we don't call with tens then why are we calling with JJ or QQ either? don't see how they're different really.

but my point is that people are asking whether they can generally setmine from the blinds. the correct answer is yes, of course. and if they can't setmine vs supertight ranges, then it's implicit that they can DEFINITELY just go nuts with any 2 and win tons of pots, even oop

you, skillwise, are in the top 1% of FR players and shouldn't even be considered in the relevant learning that is going on in this thread.

so if you're playing against daut, probably don't setmine. as long as it's not daut, either setmine or play any 2 as if you flopped a set

well the diff with JJ or QQ is that youre ahead of 88+ AK whereas TT gets in some sticky spots
just nice to be clearly ahead of someones raising range when youre oop and theyre good.

but i feel like even more than just me, people just pot control so much they dont stack off. they go into this check call mode where they wont fold but its hard for you to get a ton of value or push them off hands

but i totally agree vs low limit players at .5/1 or lower its correct to. vs super spewy guys its correct to. and guys really tight guys that never fold overpairs its correct to. but good players youre going to lose money by doing it

you just have to make them believe. they have no pot control when you take the initiative

check/call flop, lead turn for same $ amt they bet on flop, insta overbet shove river for 3x pot

now what daut?

actually pot size will be like

9 pre
14 flop
14 turn
= 37bb

and we have what, 82 bb's left

yeah my line is fucking brilliant

actually probably lead turn for a lot more so that you win more money from the river folds

check/call, pot, shove is prob really nasty for demolishing weak/tight idiots when the board makes it obvious they never have a set

because think about it, we're only doing this on boards that are like T high or lower since the nit-tard's opening range utg is like JJ+ anyway, so on those types of boards there will inevitably be some kind of possible straight as well

and nits are nits dude

you just gotta be able to discern the nits who fold AA way too much from the nits who fold JJ way too seldom, and proceed appropriately

plus since almost 100% of their range is paired, they almost never have a flush on a 3flush board so that just gives our represented range more power

daut you need to sweat rekrul for a while