Too spewy vs loose player?

Villain has being playing a lot of hands and being very aggro. I guess this only difference is this is the first time I have seen them 4 bet.

Villain is 28/28/6 and I am playing pretty tight abc @ 18/16.

Submitted by : PandaSaurus

PokerStars Game #17239309996: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/05/06 - 08:56:38 (ET)
Table 'Demophon' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Drateks ($411.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Lorzy1 ($111.50 in chips)
Seat 3: PandaSaurus ($100 in chips)
Seat 4: metal_muts ($101.50 in chips)
Seat 5: tme03 ($100.50 in chips)
Seat 6: lamine203 ($86 in chips)
Lorzy1: posts small blind $0.50
PandaSaurus : posts big blind $1

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to PandaSaurus
metal_muts: folds
tme03: folds
lamine203: folds
Drateks: folds
Lorzy1: raises $3 to $4
PandaSaurus : raises $10 to $14
Lorzy1: raises $20 to $34
PandaSaurus : raises $66 to $100 and is all-in
Lorzy1: calls $66

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $200.00)

   

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $200.00)

   

River (Pot : $200.00)

   

Showdown
Lorzy1: shows (two pair, Jacks and Threes)
PandaSaurus : mucks hand
Lorzy1 collected $197 from pot

Summary
Total pot $200 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: Drateks (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Lorzy1 (small blind) showed and won ($197) with two pair, Jacks and Threes
Seat 3: PandaSaurus (big blind) mucked
Seat 4: metal_muts folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: tme03 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: lamine203 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

He probably raises 75-80% of my BB as well.

well I'd get it if he was the one 3betting you preflop and if he was doing it really often
but this seems spewy
I think you let him get to you,why overplay such a good hand
wouldn't you normally flat this?

the more relevant information is how much you have been 3-betting him blind on blind

your first sentence is key: just because people raise a lot doesn't mean they 4bet light.
it's situational aggression and stacking off with 88 is fine IF you've been abusing his light opens from the small blind

Yeah the more I look and play with said villian the more I agree Royal.

It was still relatively early into the session (~30 mins) so it was definitely a spew.

I guess I was thinking the way he was playing + the way he preceived me, I had some good fold equity vs AJ/AQ maybe even AK.

I've seen villain 4 bet with 66, but it was vs a 50bb stack so meh.

Live and learn.

This is exactly why people play LAG. To get you to stack off with 88 for 100bb.

wrong way to deal with one of these guys hehe.

against these type of players 88 is not the hand i'm stacking off against because they may even 5 bet push J10s.

so for me i rather wait for 10s/Js or better for a preflop. Or i call with something like KQs and when i get my king or Q then i'm going allin over his CB.

Uhm, you never have fold equity vs AK BvB, and after a 4bet you never have fold equity vs AQ either, and if he's 4betting AJ he's probably not folding. I would want some more info / history before I shovel my stack in with 8s.

EDIT: This is in reference to Panda's post above.

ya noones folding AK here, or in general =p

Erm ya you can't be playing to 4 bets with 88 unless you think it's good against his range.

I actually puked inside a little

I dont mind this

On May 06 2008 07:40 KeyleK_uk wrote: ya noones folding AK here, or in general =p Erm ya you can't be playing to 4 bets with 88 unless you think it's good against his range.

I wasn't pushing without reason. I thought I had decent fold equity vs his range and there was a good chance I was flipping slightly ahead.

My biggest mistake here was overestimating his 4 bet range which I learnt the more the session went on.

Thanks for the help though guys, I have brain snaps like this sometimes, but this one I thought may have been justified.

Panda, thinking hes 4bet folding AJ-AK isn't good thinking. You shouldnt be shoving wanting FE, you are shoving for value. He should only be folding total air here

What if he thought I was super nitty and he wanted to see where he was at?

By raising to $34 is he commiting himself to showdown?

On May 06 2008 09:52 TwistedEcho wrote: You shouldnt be shoving wanting FE

Uh, yes you should. You are "shoving for value" because you expect to be ahead of his 4betting range and expect a decent number of folds from it. His 5bet calling range either has you as a slight favorite or a 1-4 dog. You need to pick up extra money somewhere or else it is spew.

That being said, this is all dependent on how likely he is to 4bet you, or anybody. Some people may be very aggro preflop but their 4betting range is very tight. So can't really tell you what to do.

On May 06 2008 10:48 PandaSaurus wrote: By raising to $34 is he commiting himself to showdown?

No, it's not. 34 is pretty much the perfect amount to be able to 4bet and fold as a bluff. I just can't picture myself doing this unless I've seen him 4bet and fold before or that he has 4bet a large amount of the time.

On May 06 2008 11:10 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: Show nested quote + On May 06 2008 09:52 TwistedEcho wrote: You shouldnt be shoving wanting FE Uh, yes you should. You are "shoving for value" because you expect to be ahead of his 4betting range and expect a decent number of folds from it. His 5bet calling range either has you as a slight favorite or a 1-4 dog. You need to pick up extra money somewhere or else it is spew. That being said, this is all dependent on how likely he is to 4bet you, or anybody. Some people may be very aggro preflop but their 4betting range is very tight. So can't really tell you what to do.

meh you know what i mean, im just hungover and explained it badly

Obv i meant we shove cause he has air a decent % of the time and just folds, and vs his calling range of our shove its not that bad depending on his range blah blah blah.

I shouldn't use the internet drunk/hungover

i'd like this if you stated any history or you seeing him 4 bet light at all.

On May 06 2008 07:15 TianYuan wrote: Uhm, you never have fold equity vs AK BvB, and after a 4bet you never have fold equity vs AQ either, and if he's 4betting AJ he's probably not folding. I would want some more info / history before I shovel my stack in with 8s. EDIT: This is in reference to Panda's post above.

who wants fold equity when they have the best hand -.-a

Read his post yo
"I think I have fold equity vs AJ, AQ and even AK"
Or something to that effect.

Obviously we don't need fold equity when we are slightly ahead but we don't have any regardless of if we wish we did or not !!