On May 21 2020 20:34 tutz wrote:
I was never a "beginner", there is no such a thing... Someone that never meditated can be a spiritual guru. It's just rare.
If there is no such thing as a beginner, then it logically follows that there is also no such thing as an advanced or expert person either. Yet you yourself said you were more advanced than others in your previous response. This is nonsensical, and it illustrates why dismissing logic isn't going to allow you to fulfill your important mission which requires you to communicate with people in a clear and consistent way.
You are moving the goalpost. My claim was that I was more experienced in meditation than you were. It wasn't that I was "more spiritual". You granted yourself that status on your own, and I didn't care to challenge it, because there is no evidence of it. My claim was simply relating to experience.
There are stages of development. Usually, the more experience you have with something, the better/more knowledgeable you are at that one thing. When people assume that they are proficient in something despite having little knowledge and experience, that is called false confidence. This is ego-based. The Dunning-Krugger experiments have a lot to say about this.
We are what we are not because of hours sitting in meditation. All we are is deeply related to past lives karma. Meditation is just a way to speed up the process so you can get rid of all the karmic entaglement you are in. That we all are in.
Those are unfounded beliefs that help certain people make sense of the world. Psychologists have a name for it: "the just-world fallacy". These mistaken beliefs fall under the category of a self-serving bias. This is also ego-based, and can be proven to be wrong. By promoting these beliefs we harm others.
There is no way to teach spirituality to a person that is not looking for it. All I write here will be interpreted as me being condescending, fake, bullshitter. I understand. As I'm always saying: I'm here to talk to the ones who want to listen. Yet, you and others insist on coming here every time I post anything. Why not just leave me alone to post my spiritual bullshit, as you think it is? Why do you even need to come here? You will probably say it's because you can't let a scammer run freely with his bullshit. Or something to that effect. Whatever... I will keep posting here anyway. And I hardly believe you will stop coming here.
I am here because I am participating in the game that you created for the purpose of your ego-gratification. I am doing the same thing that you are doing: insisting that knowledge has value, and insisting that it is a good thing to engage in philosophical discussion, which also gratifies my ego.
Humans, like all animals, are playful animals; we like attention, we like social engagement, and we like to do things that we are good at. None of these things are bad in and of themselves; the ego is not bad in and of itself. It's when the ego is dependent on self-deception and domination to gratify itself that it becomes harmful.
The purpose of intellectual pursuits should be the same as the purpose of spiritual pursuits: to become more self-aware, more compassionate, more adaptable. More grounded in reality. It shouldn't be about dogma and gaining followers.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On May 21 2020 20:34 tutz wrote:
I was never a "beginner", there is no such a thing... Someone that never meditated can be a spiritual guru. It's just rare.
If there is no such thing as a beginner, then it logically follows that there is also no such thing as an advanced or expert person either. Yet you yourself said you were more advanced than others in your previous response. This is nonsensical, and it illustrates why dismissing logic isn't going to allow you to fulfill your important mission which requires you to communicate with people in a clear and consistent way.
You are moving the goalpost. My claim was that I was more experienced in meditation than you were. It wasn't that I was "more spiritual". You granted yourself that status on your own, and I didn't care to challenge it, because there is no evidence of it. My claim was simply relating to experience.
There are stages of development. Usually, the more experience you have with something, the better/more knowledgeable you are at that one thing. When people assume that they are proficient in something despite having little knowledge and experience, that is called false confidence. This is ego-based. The Dunning-Krugger experiments have a lot to say about this.
We are what we are not because of hours sitting in meditation. All we are is deeply related to past lives karma. Meditation is just a way to speed up the process so you can get rid of all the karmic entaglement you are in. That we all are in.
Those are unfounded beliefs that help certain people make sense of the world. Psychologists have a name for it: "the just-world fallacy". These mistaken beliefs fall under the category of a self-serving bias. This is also ego-based, and can be proven to be wrong. By promoting these beliefs we harm others.
There is no way to teach spirituality to a person that is not looking for it. All I write here will be interpreted as me being condescending, fake, bullshitter. I understand. As I'm always saying: I'm here to talk to the ones who want to listen. Yet, you and others insist on coming here every time I post anything. Why not just leave me alone to post my spiritual bullshit, as you think it is? Why do you even need to come here? You will probably say it's because you can't let a scammer run freely with his bullshit. Or something to that effect. Whatever... I will keep posting here anyway. And I hardly believe you will stop coming here.
I am here because I am participating in the game that you created for the purpose of your ego-gratification. I am doing the same thing that you are doing: insisting that knowledge has value, and insisting that it is a good thing to engage in philosophical discussion, which also gratifies my ego.
On May 21 2020 17:03 tutz wrote:
The fact that your family was into spirituality also means nothing. Having spiritual knowledge means nothing if you don't experience it
I wouldn't even bother to reply anymore. hard to not reply when you keep changing the meaning of what I said ( yea bruh, now it's my ego trying to point out that you are wrong and I am right, which doesn't mean that I'm not right )
what I said means that I am open minded about spirituality and I don't fall into your generalization here:
The ones that are then are quickly dismissed by people like you because in the eyes of a person that has never been touched spiritual understanding, that is, a person that is totally entangled by the raging ego, it is more comfortable to believe these masters are fake than to face the reality of being wrong their entire life. The ego hates to admit being wrong.
anyway, seems like you are very raw, simply copy pasting books quotes that are not even relevant in the current discussion, and talking nonsense even more compared to most other fake gurus out there
tbh seems like you've been tripping balls into some heavy drugs
On May 21 2020 17:03 tutz wrote:
The fact that your family was into spirituality also means nothing. Having spiritual knowledge means nothing if you don't experience it
I wouldn't even bother to reply anymore. hard to not reply when you keep changing the meaning of what I said ( yea bruh, now it's my ego trying to point out that you are wrong and I am right, which doesn't mean that I'm not right )
what I said means that I am open minded about spirituality and I don't fall into your generalization here:
The ones that are then are quickly dismissed by people like you because in the eyes of a person that has never been touched spiritual understanding, that is, a person that is totally entangled by the raging ego, it is more comfortable to believe these masters are fake than to face the reality of being wrong their entire life. The ego hates to admit being wrong.
anyway, seems like you are very raw, simply copy pasting books quotes that are not even relevant in the current discussion, and talking nonsense even more compared to most other fake gurus out there
tbh seems like you've been tripping balls into some heavy drugs
but GL
Alright no problem, sorry if I offended you. I'm glad you said what you felt like saying to me.
No drugs at all here.
All the best to you buddy, I mean it
If Jesus himself came back to earth most would dismiss him as a hippie communist. "Turn this water into wine right now, or you are fake" they would scream at him. You think that just because I enjoy the feedback I receive from people then this is proof my ego is at work. What I enjoy is fulfilling my life's mission, seeing it unfold. I enjoy seing other souls touched by my words, my ways. Because I see the good I'm doing in the world. It comes from my heart, not from my ego.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
I had missed that Jesus part. Jesus wouldn't simply be dismissed, because Jesus actively fought oppression. When you are a threat, you are not dismissed, you are oppressed just like those whom you are fighting for.
"When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” - John 2:13-16
You are not like Jesus at all. And yes, when you feed your self-esteem through the positive feedback of people, that is ego. It doesn't mean that there is something wrong with that. Google the definition of "ego" and you'll find that it is "a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance." We all have egos. It's when they are over-inflated that we run into trouble. Unfortunately, spirituality is also one way that people over-inflate their egos and become self-deceived. Comparing the resistance that you receive to that of Jesus seems indicative that yours is in peril.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On May 22 2020 18:15 Loco wrote:
I had missed that Jesus part. Jesus wouldn't simply be dismissed, because Jesus actively fought oppression. When you are a threat, you are not dismissed, you are oppressed just like those whom you are fighting for.
"When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” - John 2:13-16
You are not like Jesus at all. And yes, when you feed your self-esteem through the positive feedback of people, that is ego. It doesn't mean that there is something wrong with that. Google the definition of "ego" and you'll find that it is "a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance." We all have egos. It's when they are over-inflated that we run into trouble. Unfortunately, spirituality is also one way that people over-inflate their egos and become self-deceived. Comparing the resistance that you receive to that of Jesus seems indicative that yours is in peril.
If Jesus himself came back to earth most would dismiss him as a hippie communist. "Turn this water into wine right now, or you are fake" they would scream at him. You think that just because I enjoy the feedback I receive from people then this is proof my ego is at work. What I enjoy is fulfilling my life's mission, seeing it unfold. I enjoy seing other souls touched by my words, my ways. Because I see the good I'm doing in the world. It comes from my heart, not from my ego.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
If Jesus himself came back to earth most would dismiss him as a hippie communist. "Turn this water into wine right now, or you are fake" they would scream at him. You think that just because I enjoy the feedback I receive from people then this is proof my ego is at work. What I enjoy is fulfilling my life's mission, seeing it unfold. I enjoy seing other souls touched by my words, my ways. Because I see the good I'm doing in the world. It comes from my heart, not from my ego.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
He is saying that intellect, because it can perform reductive analyses (what he calls 'dissection'), can only perform reductive analyses. He is saying that intellect is "blind to the whole", meanwhile he is the one who is blind to the whole of intellect. He is guilty of the very thing that he condemns the intellect for: reducing something complex to something simple.
Reason can dissect things but it can also bring things together. This is why we have systems science and complexity theory now. It has unlocked many possibilities, the most notable one being identifying and mapping all of the genes of the human genome from both a physical and a functional standpoint.
But even prior to those developments in modern science and modern philosophical theorists of emergence/anti-reductionism, there were philosophers who were critical of reductionism. Here's a quote from a famous philosopher of the 17th century:
“If man made himself the first object of study, he would see how incapable he is of going further. How can a part know the whole? But he may perhaps aspire to know at least the parts to which he bears some proportion. But the parts of the world are all so related and linked to one another, that I believe it impossible to know one without the other and without the whole.
Man, for instance, is related to all he knows. He needs a place wherein to abide, time through which to live, motion in order to live, elements to compose him, warmth and food to nourish him, air to breathe. He sees light; he feels bodies; in short, he is in a dependant alliance with everything. To know man, then, it is necessary to know how it happens that he needs air to live, and, to know the air, we must know how it is thus related to the life of man, etc. Flame cannot exist without air; therefore to understand the one, we must understand the other.
Since everything then is cause and effect, dependant and supporting, mediate and immediate, and all is held together by a natural though imperceptible chain, which binds together things most distant and most different, I hold it equally impossible to know the parts without knowing the whole, and to know the whole without knowing the parts in detail.”
-- Blaise Pascal
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 24/05/2020 00:15
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Big_Rob_isback United States. May 24 2020 07:18. Posts 211
On May 21 2020 20:49 tutz wrote:
About the use of intelect in spirituality, Sadhguru can explain better than me:
I have to say, this is one of the most naive, or ignorant rather, things that I've seen in a while. It feels like a bad attempt at some sect conversion
I've had the book on my to-read list for a while now though, it was Steve Jobs's favorite book that supposedly deeply influenced him at a later stage in life, when he wasn't that big of an asshole anymore and connect back with his daughter
