ASL 8 (get in here lol)

The newer hydra busts aren't meant to be pure busts, but are more strategic ways of taking the map. Basically zergs take 3 bases, get a specific number of drones mining each base (9 main, 7 natural, 3 3rd), put 4th hatchery at a 4th base, and attack with hydras to try to rip down the forge+gateway at front before +1 weapons finishes. They poke in just to keep the protoss honest with enough cannons, but the main goal is then to drone up, get lair, tech into lurker/muta, and eventually tier 3 and just prevent the protoss from getting a 4th base while they eventually grab a 5th and run the game over.

It's forced protoss to alter some of the corsair builds -- going forge expo into corsair into templar tech leaves Protoss behind against the best zergs (look at games 2/3 and the position Action was in before Snow outclassed him), so now most Protoss mix it up between going gateway expo, forge expo then straight citadel, or forge expo into sair/reaver before citadel. Of course the original build is still great if the zerg does anything else, like lair tech, but the 9734 (referring to the drones at each base and the 4th hatchery at a 4th expo) hydra build is designed to destroy it.

I don't play zerg but I honestly don't understand why zergs don't go early hydras every game. Not a hydra bust but just the 6 or so hydralisks with range to snipe down the gateway/forge and force a bunch of cannons. SnOw must have made 10 cannons at his natural, that's 15 zealots worth of minerals. That has to be so worth cutting your drone production a bit. I feel like zergs have gotten away from that and gone more for all-in hydra busts or just leave the protoss unfettered until you get rolled by a 2-base push.

On August 25 2019 03:35 blackjacki2 wrote: I don't play zerg but I honestly don't understand why zergs don't go early hydras every game. Not a hydra bust but just the 6 or so hydralisks with range to snipe down the gateway/forge and force a bunch of cannons. SnOw must have made 10 cannons at his natural, that's 15 zealots worth of minerals. That has to be so worth cutting your drone production a bit. I feel like zergs have gotten away from that and gone more for all-in hydra busts or just leave the protoss unfettered until you get rolled by a 2-base push.

That's what Zergs have realized lately. FLash explains this new 9-7-3-(4) ---> Drones on each base breaks the Bisu (Protoss) build almost entirely. Timing builds are so precise nowadays the Protoss needs some new thing in response.

Flash says here that map tweaks or removal have broken 1-1-1 for a while now which is why nobody uses it anymore. I will miss seeing Flash and how brilliant this guy analyzes the game in general.

Also zergs found that 2 hatch muta works vs either 5 rax or 1-1-1.

I think Protoss will find that gateway first builds work vs anything zerg does. I don't think Protoss can start going sair reaver as a catch-all build, as that seems far inferior vs the power drone into scourge into hydra/lurker into defiler builds. Nor can they just go citadel as that gets destroyed by muta builds since mutas can outmicro archons and snipe temps. The main problem now is that zergs are often faking what they do, either making it look like 9734 by going overpool into den but then canceling and going muta which forces protoss to make a few unnecessary cannons at the front, or going lair then canceling and going 9734 which is built to dominate the bisu corsair into templar builds.

I think at the highest levels the matchup will remain balanced, but it's very easy for a mid level to decent zerg to learn these types of builds and dominate protoss players who can't keep scouting probes alive long enough to see tech routes and then are forced into either a guessing game or overdefending against multiple threats.

I think more skipping sair with faster DA will be new meta personally. the 9734 seems to crush sair openings fairly hard (assuming the zerg plays really well - this is a build order where I myself don't feel skilled enough to benefit from it, depends a little on map though.)

It's funny cause I've been hearing protosses whine about 973 for more than a year now. I've never found it troublesome - for two reasons, one that I like gateway expand more than forge expand, second that I like going into citadel more than stargate. And in theory this should mean that I'm weak against mutas - but I usually get a fast dark archon, so I'm fine against that. (Incidentally this normally responds much more poorly towards lurker builds, but it's 'established knowledge' that you should go muta against non-stargate). I see much more DA from protosses in general these days.

I've also been experimenting with DA rush pvp lately and it's actually working fairly well. :D Basically if the opponent scouts me, I just go citadel+templar archives while the probe is still in my main. then they all go robo and obs first, and then they all go into reaver afterwards. But what I do is instead of attack with my first two dts, I just make a DA and get mind control right away, and timing wise it works out so I have MC before the first shuttle with reaver gets to my base. I've done it twice against good players now (bonyth one of them) and while I didn't actually get to MC the shuttle either time (both players saw the DA and ended up not harassing me much - which is also a win), I still won one of the games because in the first big fight that happened, I started it off by feedbacking all 4 templars he had.

but how does DA stop the mutas you need to also research storm and get the templars don't you? is there time?

I mean that all depends on the flow of the game. If zerg is doing a 973ish build mutas aren't gonna come around really early - especially not if you are doing 4 gate speed zealot. In this case you go templar first, and then depending on what your zealots scout (natural with gas taken quickly, low hydra/hatchery count will indicate mutas, a faster 5th hatchery and more hydras will mean no mutas for a good while) you add cannons in your main+natural while going into DA. cannons+storm supposed to keep him from killing too many probes until maelstrom is out. If zerg isn't doing a 973ish build (meaning he doesn't apply any pressure with hydras) then you are free to open stargate as normal.

The main point with the DA is for when you push out later. If p opened stargate and maintained his corsair fleet, zerg usually avoids getting one of those muta flocks for templar snipes / those snipes end up being really expensive. but if there are less than 3 corsairs, when p moves out with his 30 goon zealot 4-6 templar force, you often see zerg swooping in with 9 mutas and killing 3+ of the templars before a 50 hydra force defeats the rest of the p army. If protoss goes dark archon and maelstrom, this entire muta swoop is nullified, and then you have 8 storms to go with your army instead of 2 storms and suddenly 50 hydras are much less fearsome.

corsairs have an added benefit, which is really significant for progamers cause they have such amazing multitask, in that they can clear away any overlords making storm and dt drops/harassment significantly more powerful. But for players at my level or lower I think going the DA route is much easier in general - and specifically against the 9734 build which counters sair openings, I think DA route is how you have to go.

LIVE

pumped

My god...

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Is there a working video of the finals? Somehow the video above is not working anymore.

On September 01 2019 19:32 SpasticInk wrote: Is there a working video of the finals? Somehow the video above is not working anymore.

http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/47343188

G1 was amazing haha
hard to blame the guy that lost for getting greedy with expansion he couldnt protect
All the timings were out of whack for both after that ridiculous low supply start

Flash attack timings are always perfect, there are many times where if he attacks a bit sooner or later he is in trouble but he goes out at the exact correct time every time. its amazing.

That 3rd game damn... is there a point to even invite him to the tournament? Just give him that 1st prize money and let the rest battle it out for 2nd place


2.5 years break before he comes back ?:D

when he went to sc2 for over a year (and did well there too) and came back he just crushed everybody lol