Satisfying desires

Well, I think there are different distinctions to be made. Living in Colombia and teaching Math to rich kids I wouldn't necessarily say is ordinary but if you are a householder (own or rent), wish to get married and have kids, etc etc etc. by a monk or diligent layperson's standards it is quite the ordinary life. I would venture a guess that most people on LP don't want to be "ordinary." By monk standards we all are. I would also venture a guess that almost none have aspirations to be a monk. So, where does that leave us exactly? I continue on as a more or less diligent layperson that writes blogs occasionally and everyone kind of does their own thing. We all have to find our own path but it is kind of like are you dissatisfied? Probably. Oh, here is a path that looks to shore that up.

My mind and my body oppress me. I am afflicted with consciousness.

I have to say sometimes I get a little bit frustrated. It feels like I have to get through the Anattalakkhana Sutta instead of finishing "Infinite Jest" or "Insert Classic Here" or whatever. I want to have sex with a beautiful woman but I can't even flirt with any woman. I can say I am only practicing 5 precepts but I know there are benefits with practicing 8. So, then I just practice them at my convenience and it all gets fucked up. I am just bored. I had a mediocre meditation session. I got drowsy and a little bit lost in thought which doesn't usually happen anymore. I have had plenty of sleep. Fuck it, this just gets back to my mind and my body oppressing me. I am nauseous with consciousness. I don't think the answer is smoke cigarettes and fuck a petit French woman or smoke cigarettes and discuss philosophy. Who knows? I want to get a tattoo but there is not going to be enough time today. I keep trying to not get a tattoo but it keeps coming back to me. C'est la vie. L'être et le néant. Posting here just seems like the most pleasant way to pass the time currently. Eh, fuck it, I will feed the cats and see how I feel.

Au revoir,

My fellows contracted with dukkha meaning you are A L I V E. This post makes me want to listen to Outkast "ATLiens" or Gojira "L'es enfants sauvages (Live)." Listening to music or partaking in entertainment goes against one of the 8 precepts. I mean I know where they are coming from but that really is kind of a bummer.

The precepts are not commandments to be obeyed, but training rules. They are not beneficial rules to follow if they are not understood as such. The five precepts are fully sufficient for someone in your situation, living at home, dealing with mental illness and trying to build a consistent meditation practice and not preparing for a retreat. The 8 precepts are held temporarily by laypeople when they know they can commit to them fully for a period of intensive meditation practice. Adding but not committing to the other precepts is basically the equivalent of fuckarounditis when it comes to fitness. Instead of sticking to what is known to work and bring progress, you just wing it, "go with the flow," stagnate and bring yourself undue stress and dissatisfaction. It shows a lack of trust in the teachings or a lack of seriousness (impatience). At this rate, with the self-caused stress that you bring to yourself by trying to become what you cannot become, or being unclear as to what should be aim toward, it is only a matter of time before you are completely disillusioned and decide meditation is not worth it for you, and you give it up again, as you did in the past, and as Y warns in the very book you linked:

"The second important principle is that meditation must be performed continuously. Meditation practice, like any training, must become habitual if it is to help one overcome bad habits of clinging and partiality. If one practices meditation intermittently and is unmindful between sessions, any clarity of mind gained from the practice will be weakened by subsequent distracted mind states, making the meditation practice seem useless. This is often a cause for frustration and disillusionment in new meditators until they learn to be mindful throughout their daily activities and continuously from one meditation technique to the next. Once they are able to be mindful continuously, their concentration will improve and they will realize the true benefit of the practice."

All this time spent worrying about the precepts is time not spent dealing with reality mindfully. It's just another distraction. If what you really want is more distractions, then you should be very, very clear with yourself, and say to yourself "right now, I can't meditate, it's not working for me, I will distract myself". And do that. There is no point in doing things half-assedly. Go back to meditation only when you feel like it's purposive. And it's easy to know if that's what you really want. Is it what you're doing most of the time? When you're not focused on getting validation from others, do you prefer distracting yourself or meditating and studying or structuring your life to make them easier? Be honest with yourself and go from there.

If you know yourself well, then you know you are prone to overreaching, being impatient, distracting yourself, arguing for the sake of arguing (or discussing for the sake of discussing), and forgetting what you need to be doing. So take the appropriate measures to prevent those things as much as possible if that is your goal. Have reminders. For instance, "I will not mess around with the precepts, I will be disciplined and follow the appropriate ones" as a reminder on your phone popping up every day. If it is not your goal to improve, then indulge in those things you desire until you've had enough of them. If you do not indulge in them it shouldn't be because someone told you these things are bad, even if it's the Buddha, but because you know experientially that these things are not bringing you anything positive. If it's a drudgery to read scriptures, read something else until the desire to read scriptures comes back. There is no Buddhist police watching over you, and you have nothing to prove to anyone. The goal is less stress and suffering, not more, remember? Maybe make a reminder of that too.

Training rules is a good way to look at it. Here is the thing though. I have tasted the 8 precept training and trust in its effectiveness. Except for maybe eating before noon. That one is really difficult for me to sustain but it still feels like some form of laziness that I don't attempt it. Now that I am listening to music again... I don't know. I don't know if abstaining from music is beneficial for me. It's a close one. I don't listen to it nearly as often. Would my meditation be better if I didn't come on LP, listen to music, visit r/ggw, etc? Yeah, probably and that's probably what it's meant for. I would say I actually have a lot of confidence in the teachings but it's more so a lack of impetus. I am not there yet. I meditated for 2 hours today with some breaks. That felt good enough. I actually meditated for an hour straight the first time ever yesterday. There is probably some danger at looking at this as great evidence of anything but this last week has been flourishing for me not stagnating. Honestly, I could be hitting my current limits. It just seems really difficult to push through to say 4 hours a day. An hour and a half session of meditation seems much easier for some reason. Y, of course, is right. I have been mindful from session to session with great benefit but most of the time when I am done meditating I cash out and "unwind." This can make the next session no easier than the first although sometimes the first is the easiest or it really just depends. Sometimes I study something and it helps tremendously sometimes it feels like a hindrance. I have a hard time staying mindful on days that I work and also on days that I don't.

I don't know exactly how I feel about meditation. It's something that I do that feels beneficial. Recently, to experience and understand the hindrances or non-self is something I place a really high value on. This type of thing which is happening quite often for me is what I find the benefits of meditation to be. The example of obsessing about this Thai girlfriend one hour and having that thought completely vanish the next. I do doubt the path. It comes up in my meditation a fair amount. Not as often as it used to. Nowadays, I can just note it and move on where in the past it could have the capability of making a session quite miserable because I didn't want to acknowledge it. There is something else. Acknowledge reality. Really, in understanding the hindrances has so much value in meditation and daily life.

Sometimes I get fired up about studying and charge through it all and then sometimes not so much. You are right though to be honest and go from there.

Thanks man. That was a good post.

The purpose of vipassana meditation is to develop nibbidha nana, the knowledge of dispassion or sense of weariness. Only when the phenomenon of incessant arising and ceasing has been personally seen and experienced, the nature of impermanence can be fully and thoroughly grasped. It is only then the senses of weariness is developed.

Furthermore, in connection with the contemplation on nama (mental phenomena), immateriality, only three components of vedana (feeling) are mentioned. Nothing was said of other components-mind and mental formations. It is clear here too that taking note of only the three vedanas (sukkha vedana, dukkha vedana, upekkha vedana)(pleasant, pain, equanimity feelings) at the moment of their arising will develop the sense of weariness. But it must be noted that it is not just the painful feeling but all the three kinds of feeling that should be contemplate on, because it must be understood that all three vedanas are manifesting themselves.

- Mahasi Sayadaw

Buddhism ain't compatible with the modern world believe me
You don't ever want to get too good at it or become awakened unless you're ready to be detached from western society
So much stuff starts looking absurd but drives the world and motivation
I've been there, and I'm using a balanced practical approach ever since the realisation

Also
becoming one with your emotions without all that observer shit is fucking fun baby aww yeah, suffering is the price you got to pay, and it's worth paying I'd say

I don't want to be compatible with the modern world. I am so much better off in meditation.

I already am detached from Western society to a point. It's difficult though because I have to make an income, have health insurance, etc.

Yup.

Yeah, that's probably where I will end up. I don't know. Who really knows. You can't unsee things after practicing Buddhism or maybe you can. I want to enjoy music so much but every time the Buddha is right. It leaves me in dukkha (suffering, dissatisfaction). Today, the sukkha (pleasure) was high listening to music but I am left craving and almost numb. A slight, penetrating dukkha that has been with me for all of the early afternoon. It's like I ate a chocolate cake with cocaine but anymore would nauseate me and I am frantically trying to find sukkha or even just upekkha (equanimity) but I can't control it. I can't control it. If there were a Self (living entity) within me it could control what is pleasurable or what is not un-pleasurable. That is not the case so I am oppressed and afflicted by whatever arises and ceases.


I should really spend some more time with the noble 4 truths and the noble 8fold path. That is like the barebones on the nature of suffering and what we can do about it. Instead of obsessing over whether or not I should listen to music anymore. I mean it's obvious I shouldn't but I want to so I'll just continue that cycle until I am fed up with it. Currently, I am too stubborn and think I can control the high but then it fucks up my meditation and my day to a point. That is the point of the added precepts it is in line with right effort so that we do not disrupt our meditation. Believe me: entertainment, music, pornography, sexual activity, eating too much, etc etc. definitely disrupts meditation. I know this. It's just something I will continue to have to work through.

What if I am sick of my abdomen rising and falling? Even if I end it all I probably end up in some worse rebirth. It's a lot of motivation to get to Nibbana. I want the cycle of samsara to be over. Fuck Nietzsche's idea of eternal reoccurrence.

Actually
All those things you can enjoy in meditative state
Read Siddhartha, he became enlightened through fucking and indulging and shit and then staring at the river :D
It's just about constant practice and being able to retain the state of an observer (and observer of the observer and so forth, I'm sure you do this during meditation)

The problem is that once you are able to do that even when fucking pussy, listening to awesome music and really strong emotion it's awesome at first you just become detached and find that going for fasting and staring at the river and going into your inner world more fascinating.


I just found that going all out on that is just dumb when you're a poker pro, love to compete, goals love to get lost in awesome music your GF etc. And in the modern world you just have to not be a weak bitch, accept some suffering for being able to phase in and out of the detached observer state as situations require it and as you are able to do, that's what buddhism and meditation does for ya.

The people that go all out on Kwan Um Zen I know either get really great at it but detached, lose all (western measured) ambition etc. And normal people just stop connecting with them.
Or become/remain damn hypocrites who preach enlightenment and absence of ego one day, and then post pictures of babies they spent hours arranging on facebook the next day xD

What?

You must be doing some meditation far different from me. There is no enjoyment out of any of those things being mindful.

Siddhartha as in the Buddha????? The Buddha did not become enlightened through fucking and indulging and shit and staring at the river. He tried many gurus, he tried living as an ascetic then he had a bowl of rice pudding and sat under the bodhi tree.

You are at least right here from my estimations. It does take constant, consistent practice. I think your idea of an observer coincides with the idea of being mindful.

I'd rather meditate than do a lot these days.

Well, it's hard to be a serious Buddhist practitioner and play poker for a living. Poker does not fit in with right livelihood. So, either poker has to go or Buddhism has to go. I won't comment on the others. It's the path you've chosen and as long as their isn't adequate dukkha (suffering, dissatisfaction, stress) you won't have any impetus to change anything. I used to be the same but now I refuse to compete, rarely listen to music, and while I sometimes get cravings for a girlfriend they subside usually pretty quickly. The music one is probably the most interesting. I was a music junky. Listening to all kinds as sort of an anthem for whatever I was doing. Actually, competition too. I was a competition junky. Sports, video games and poker are great for that. As weird as it sounds a girlfriend would likely completely disrupt my meditation practice. Just starting to think about my life with a girlfriend there is probably very, very few women in the world that would want to be with me at least in the West.

What is Kwan Um Zen?

People are complex. Arranging baby facebook albums is similar to my posting on LP. I would say I have become somewhat detached and have very little Western measured ambition. It can be jarring at times, depressing at times, hopeless at times. Sometimes it even feels that I am becoming disconnected with a Buddhist recovery group. I don't mind being disconnected from "normal" people. What are we going to talk about or do together anyways?

Kwan Um zen is Formal practice
I've done it quite a few times
It's just way easier to join a group like that and do a 2 or 7 day long retreats than go it alone if you're really serious

Siddhartha is a book
Not about Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha you're referring to)
Definitely recommended read, it's really short too and shows a path of indulgence leading to mindfulness
I read that + Chopra's book on Gautama Liked both (I know Chopra has some controversy around him )

On September 29 2018 00:26 RiKD wrote: What? You must be doing some meditation far different from me. There is no enjoyment out of any of those things being mindful.

When you gain the ability to come into a mindful state you can enjoy almost any task differently (A lot people will say better, I say differently as you lose the high of becoming the emotion you feel, which is many times necessary/beneficial)
As you are suddenly able to step back from yourself and realize emotions you feel, details of things you never noticed before and it becomes fascinating.

E.g. Pain during exercising when you're pushing yourself really hard just kinda becomes a different kind of experience nor good or bad but just fascinating thing you're observing and you just go through it

During sex it you just get to focus on all these different things in your partner, your feelings etc. There's a whole millions of people doing tantric sex etc.
Same happens with mundane tasks, they actually make it easier to be mindful, Kwan Um Zen practice is a lto about repetitive rituals and tasks that make meditation easier. The stronger the experience and emotional response the harder it is to be mindful and move into the observer or retain the state.


If you do it long enough it changes how your body works actually - monks that have been able to practice all their life get close to psychopaths on a deep level in that even extreme situations barely if at all raise their heart rate and bodily functions.

(There was a study with a sudden gunshot or carcrash happening right next to them, can't remember the specifics. Psychopaths's heart rate stays the same or even lower and they become calmer in these situations, and the only non psychopathic people that came even close were people with high level of mindfulness )

On September 29 2018 07:55 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Kwan Um zen is Formal practice I've done it quite a few times It's just way easier to join a group like that and do a 2 or 7 day long retreats than go it alone if you're really serious Siddhartha is a book Not about Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha you're referring to) Definitely recommended read, it's really short too and shows a path of indulgence leading to mindfulness I read that + Chopra's book on Gautama Liked both (I know Chopra has some controversy around him )

I have no interest in zen. Especially when it is founded in the 1980s. It's likely better than nothing though.

So, it's called Siddhartha and it's not about the Buddha but a random guy who indulges in everything and gets to mindfulness? Why not just read the actual story of the Buddha? He goes from a worldly life to Nibbana. I am not going near Deepak Chopra.

The stronger the experience and emotional response the harder it is to be mindful and move into the observer or retain the state.

This I have found to be very true.

I disagree that mindfulness heightens the experience. It dulls it for me. If I am eating chips and guacamole and I start noting "chewing, chewing, chewing, swallowing, swallowing, grabbing, grabbing, dipping, dipping, raising, raising, chewing, chewing chewing, etc" I don't lose myself in pleasure. I don't eat too much. Actually, the taste of the food rarely becomes prominent. I am more so in a state of equanimity. Otherwise I am liable to go on a chips and guac rush.

If I am completely mindful in sex I won't reach orgasm. Again, there just reaches an equanimity where it almost comes to the point of what is the point? If I am noting my pleasures they vanish. If I am noting my dissatisfactions they vanish. Fucking could be the anchor as whatever else prominent arises. It would make myself last longer but I wouldn't be a very interactive sex partner. The fun in sex for me is completely getting lost in each other. Feelings, emotions, NIN Closer. Of course, that would completely disrupt meditation. And then there is the strong craving. And then there is all the bullshit that comes with having intimate sex. Dukkha (stress, suffering, dissatisfaction).

what d you mean chew chew chew lol
you are aware of the food, the other thoughts that start popping up and use that for meditation itself
Mindful eating is also a big category many people practice
boredom and pointlessness are also great meditative subjects to observe in themselves!

You start to step a level on top of the part of your ego that is nothing the pleasures and start nothing the part of you that observes dissatisfaction with losing the pleasure, those activities are almost as great for meditation as formally sitting itself, again breathing is the easiest and the most basic one of those that's why most people use it

Orgasm becomes irrelevant also just a part of the experience, you probably are having intimate sex wrong if you wouldn't even do it without orgasm. You can find point in pointless activities if you become truly mindful! Also the interaction part is no necessarily true, you can use mindful touch, even let yourself go and do things you'd be afraid of otherwise because you step back and observe them, notice little details etc.

That's why having a guide at some point is very useful like the formal groups, at some point you will grow apart from them like pretty much everyone but it leads to faster basic realisations.

I mean you'll come to all this yourself but it can take you 40years instead of 5 hah



From what you're saying you are at a really basic level or merely just noticing things more, that's a start

It's just a different method. The "New Burmese Method" to be precise. One notes whatever arises most prominently.

When I eat mindfully it is usually the chewing and the swallowing that is most prominent. I typically don't start noting "liking, liking." When I am mindfully eating it is just food not this idea of Food. It is sustenance and nourishment not a Drug.

I am Theravada Buddhist so have my ways of doing things. I study under the Mahasi Sayadaw lineage so will have my way of doing things. It is based on the Satipitthana Sutta. Anything else is not viable in my opinion.


Well, all sex is intimate but there is a deeper level of intimate. My nature is to use sex as a drug.

I think I think too much. Writing these posts is a distraction from meditation. I found myself wanting to reflect on things I had posted or other people had posted and think about what I could post while in meditation today. Which is fine. Thoughts will arise in meditation that is a very natural thing. Sometimes I kind of just dump my thoughts that have been in my mind here and I don't know if that's a good cycle. If I was truly mindful I would just note "thinking, thinking" and the thoughts would vanish but it feels ("feeling, feeling", it feels liberating to be able to just get them out here instead of labeling them. It is hard to be mindful all day long. But, I am learning it's not real liberation. It is just yet another example of clinging and suffering. I think a lot and my mind can be chaotic so unpacking it here "feels" good. Yet, it disrupts meditation and overall leads to dissatisfaction. When do I stop writing? When do I stop being mindful? Where is that smooth, slight sukkha (pleasure) I just had in meditation. I was even noting "liking, liking" and I stayed there for a while. But, that's no different to yesterday when the waves were nice and I could actually get in a nice body surfing session. It's an investigation that's all. An investigation of how I am doing in that moment. I can appreciate zen for going out into the forest and cutting firewood and carrying water and doing chores and meditating. I can't appreciate being hit with a kendo stick for being drowsy. Drowsiness will occur. It is much better to note it and move on to the next moment.

Isn't attaching yourself to one practice and "your way of doing things" pretty much against the principles in the first place? Don't think Buddha became enlightened by using I, My way of doing things , I study, my nature and being close minded

No. There must be trust in the Buddha and trust in one's teacher(s). Once the Buddha became Enlightened he was very specific with his teachings.

Satisfying Desires

I had this re-occurring fantasy today that I was in a tuxedo and this gorgeous woman (reminded me of Joanna Krupa) was in this little black dress. It was all the little things. I was drinking champagne. There were chocolate covered strawberries. Sometimes we were at a restaurant sharing tiramisu. Sometimes our eyes were smiling at each other devilishly. There was unbuttoned tuxedos and black lingerie. I had a black Ferrari. Revving up the engine and flying across the streets turned her on, turned me on. I have to say it all sounded pretty good.

I have a crush on a waitress. She kind of reminds me of Alexis Texas with a bigger ass and prettier in the face.

Greed, lust, delusion.

I don't know if any of these thoughts matter.

I don't want to be reborn. "wanting wanting."

I ate a bowl of "rice pudding" tonight so I could sit by the bodhi tree and reach Nibbanna. I don't have any bodhi trees though. Even getting "Stream Enterer" status leaves me with up to 7 more lives in human form.

Clinging to sexual gratification is like getting caught in a shark's jaws.

Oh well, I can always go meditate more.