lol game 1
lol game 2 (killer (baxter) big build order advantage and still just.. dies really easily)
fantastic game by JD in game 3, that build order on that map is absolute genius. Even then, if consume finished like 2-3 seconds later he might have died, but it was pretty great either way.
sloppy game 4 by the two players that really weren't good enough to qualify. (losing drone vs scouting probe is like.. come on. progamers really shouldn't do that.)
and a very entertaining, but also kinda terrible game 5. tastosis completely neglect to mention it all game, but man.. killer squanders this so hard. he stays on 2-1 carapace-melee upgrades for like, 10+ minutes. 4-1 ultralisks vs 3-3 marines vs 5-2 ultralisks vs 3-3 marines is huge - marines go from needing 100 shots to needing 134 (+ healing), and ultralisks end up needing 3 instead of 2 hits against a marine that is getting healed. I actually get why he's not using more defilers offensively (circuit breaker has a huge open area, dark swarm is only really good for ultraling vs marines when you manage to corner them, and irradiate normally kills the defilers before they can really throw the juicy plagues.
lol game 1
lol game 2 (killer (baxter) big build order advantage and still just.. dies really easily)
fantastic game by JD in game 3, that build order on that map is absolute genius. Even then, if consume finished like 2-3 seconds later he might have died, but it was pretty great either way.
sloppy game 4 by the two players that really weren't good enough to qualify. (losing drone vs scouting probe is like.. come on. progamers really shouldn't do that.)
and a very entertaining, but also kinda terrible game 5. tastosis completely neglect to mention it all game, but man.. killer squanders this so hard. he stays on 2-1 carapace-melee upgrades for like, 10+ minutes. 4-1 ultralisks vs 3-3 marines vs 5-2 ultralisks vs 3-3 marines is huge - marines go from needing 100 shots to needing 134 (+ healing), and ultralisks end up needing 3 instead of 2 hits against a marine that is getting healed. I actually get why he's not using more defilers offensively (circuit breaker has a huge open area, dark swarm is only really good for ultraling vs marines when you manage to corner them, and irradiate normally kills the defilers before they can really throw the juicy plagues.
I mean.. game 5 ... cmon he should NEVER be losing that game, he doesnt need defilers defensively, he just needed 2 plagues to finish it off, except for good 10 minutes he only had 1 defiler at a time and no plague... plus attacking that terran expansion while he s going for ur base was kind of terrible ... he literally had control over the whole map, killed insane amounts of vessels and still ended up losing.. dafuck
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blackjacki2 United States. Sep 02 2018 17:52. Posts 2581
Please use spoilers when posting results, especially when it's less than 24 hours since the match aired. Matches are at bad hours for a lot of people due to time zone differences so a lot of people here don't watch live and come here looking for links to streams.
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blackjacki2 United States. Sep 02 2018 20:34. Posts 2581
lol game 1
lol game 2 (killer (baxter) big build order advantage and still just.. dies really easily)
fantastic game by JD in game 3, that build order on that map is absolute genius. Even then, if consume finished like 2-3 seconds later he might have died, but it was pretty great either way.
sloppy game 4 by the two players that really weren't good enough to qualify. (losing drone vs scouting probe is like.. come on. progamers really shouldn't do that.)
and a very entertaining, but also kinda terrible game 5. tastosis completely neglect to mention it all game, but man.. killer squanders this so hard. he stays on 2-1 carapace-melee upgrades for like, 10+ minutes. 4-1 ultralisks vs 3-3 marines vs 5-2 ultralisks vs 3-3 marines is huge - marines go from needing 100 shots to needing 134 (+ healing), and ultralisks end up needing 3 instead of 2 hits against a marine that is getting healed. I actually get why he's not using more defilers offensively (circuit breaker has a huge open area, dark swarm is only really good for ultraling vs marines when you manage to corner them, and irradiate normally kills the defilers before they can really throw the juicy plagues.
Just finished the stream and had the same thoughts for the entire 2nd half of game 5. Really surprised Tastosis didn't catch that. It's clear the Korean casters were talking about it because the observer was clicking on the evo chamber and circling over the upgrades with the cursor when clicking on zerg units. A single upgrade essentially makes marines do 25% less damage on your ultras, I seriously don't understand how a progamer can overlook that. I just really don't understand it. It must be really frustrating if you're a fan of Killer. Seems like the 2 most deserving players went through today.
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FrinkX United States. Sep 03 2018 13:24. Posts 7561
we prob dont need more than 1 starcraft thread tho. would avoid noob spoilers like in this one
I don't have any stats for neo transistor vs regular transistor, and I haven't been as active the past couple months so I'm a bit out of the loop. I think neo transistor was changed to make the ramps wider (making defending the main bases a bit worse), but I think they reverted them after that again. honestly don't know how it differs right now.
Autobahn, Sylphide and Circuit breaker have some games played though. (well circuit breaker has been around for a long time and has a LOT of games)
They look good for terran tbh.
There are ELO-adjusted stats also, and the maps end up looking a bit less terran favored when taking those into account (as always, Flash is the terran player who plays the most sponsored matches, which is what these statistics are derived from), but still, terran looks strong.
Transistor is one exception though - but this is mostly from the old Transistor. (and once again, I don't know exactly how neo transistor differs, if the changes made terran better) - however they're not playing that in the ro24 anyway
There you have
TvP: 124-160 (43.77%. actually goes all the way down to 36.9% when adjusting for ELO)
ZvP: 393-309 (56%)
TvZ: 246-231 (51.6%)
Just from looking at the maps, I think Sylphide genuinely is a pretty solidly terran favored map. tvz is somewhat terran favored in the current meta on most maps, but in tvp, it's pretty great for t because they can expand towards the protoss while keeping high ground positions that are pretty much impossible for protoss to push towards. Autobahn I think things might well change with more games being played.
I think JD's build order in his zvt there was absolutely brilliant and one that might slightly change the meta - he didn't win that game because he took an undetected ninja expansion, he won because successfully taking that expansion makes it 100% impossible for terran to defend against lurker ling defiler attacks.
On September 14 2018 07:46 Baalim wrote:
this is exactly the same event as other thread right? should I merge the threads?
nope. it's not exactly the same event. this is afreeca star league organized by a korean company. the other one is korea starcraft league organized by blizzard.
i was having some bandwith problem with the Afreeca.tv vod anyone else experienced it? I have 200Mb so it was not on my end, it wasnt terrible but not perfect
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
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PoorUser United States. Sep 15 2018 06:57. Posts 7471
would've totally sucked balls if rain got eliminated cause of that dragoon glitch in G1 ... he would've defended that shit with 2 batteries if the goon didnt glitch
Last edit: 18/09/2018 23:58
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FrinkX United States. Sep 19 2018 02:40. Posts 7561
make sure u tune into the kor version of group A so your ears dont bleed
casters are like " yep Last should now think about who he s playing the ro8 cause he just won the game" - 2min later " he lost all of his tanks, how did this happen" lmao
guess only question is who wins this ASL, Last or Flash
Remaining field is actually reasonably hard for Last. Sharp has great TvT, should be only 1-2 zergs, and since Last got second in his group, probably about a 20-25% chance he faces Flash in QF (1/3*60% or so).
To be fair to Artosis/Tasteless, I didn't think Mini would break that push either.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
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blackjacki2 United States. Oct 04 2018 06:21. Posts 2581
Final group is playing in a few hours. Features Flash v Jaedong.
so basically JD had won all 3 games he played and just blundered in 1 single attack, actually the first one was about the same but the attack worked... still love him sad he is going to the military service but... all good things must come to an end
On October 04 2018 13:11 whammbot wrote:
Dude should retire already.
Why? If he pushes trough his problems he has decent chance of beating even Flash as we saw even in multiple games. In fact the 2nd game he blundered pretty hard(it was like someone took over the controls for a moment).
JD losing to action was criminal. At least vs Flash there was some urgency due to having only 2 bases and a significant tech disadvantage. But vs action he had spores and a supply advantage, he could have turtled, got upgrades, droned a little, and won easily
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
On October 04 2018 13:11 whammbot wrote:
Dude should retire already.
Why? If he pushes trough his problems he has decent chance of beating even Flash as we saw even in multiple games. In fact the 2nd game he blundered pretty hard(it was like someone took over the controls for a moment).
Won't mention name but ever since he's lost that "edge" he's been playing super lazy in the worst possible way. It's weird because he plays godly in other areas then seems to give up when it matters the most and just coasts. I've seen him do this numerous times - it's not that he's terrible but it feels that he is no longer as motivated as he was back then (totally understandable playing this demon of a game at the highest level all your life)
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NMcNasty United States. Oct 05 2018 01:28. Posts 2039
Short game but Flash vs Jaedong didn’t disappoint. Jaedong had an excellent strategy with a great plan B, but Flash’s micro was too strong. Feel like most any other Terran loses to that rush.
On October 04 2018 13:11 whammbot wrote:
Dude should retire already.
Why? If he pushes trough his problems he has decent chance of beating even Flash as we saw even in multiple games. In fact the 2nd game he blundered pretty hard(it was like someone took over the controls for a moment).
Won't mention name but ever since he's lost that "edge" he's been playing super lazy in the worst possible way. It's weird because he plays godly in other areas then seems to give up when it matters the most and just coasts. I've seen him do this numerous times - it's not that he's terrible but it feels that he is no longer as motivated as he was back then (totally understandable playing this demon of a game at the highest level all your life)
He definitely seems to pick a strategy and fully commit to it. He also tries to take the aggressive action every time he has a choice. It reminds me of Fedor during the period where he lost to Werdum/Bigfoot/Hendo. Skills wise he wasn't really worse than he was a few years earlier, but he just had no patience and refused to adjust from trying repeatedly to land one big shot.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Last edit: 05/10/2018 02:24
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blackjacki2 United States. Oct 05 2018 03:17. Posts 2581
I think this is just where the meta is today. Terrans like Flash and Last are using super greedy build orders and zergs like jaedong and soulkey respond with the fast lair speedling/muta rush. Can't blame them for trying to keep the terrans honest, they're just gonna get owned in a standard macro game if they let their opponents fast expo and get every tech unfettered.
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bigredhoss Cook Islands. Oct 05 2018 03:18. Posts 8648
On October 04 2018 14:14 lebowski wrote:
damn it
video unavailable
i think he just needs some psychological coaching from specialist(and ofc if he has problems with his body he needs to sort it out) - many athletes struggle not because they are not good but because they crack in clutch moments... actually i think he would have won all those games yesterday if he was just a little bit more patient and precise in his decisions - btw the first game you can see he is trying to blunder it too - he stopped controlling his mutas here and there but his advantage was so big that it was not enough for this blunder to become significant
p.s the games vs last where he lost 4-0 - if he had won that first game(again blunder - he lost 3 lurkers due to not reacting on time) it could easily go 4-0 his way(he has huge momentum + he chooses next map)
I am JD fan too, but he loses first game to Last even with the lurkers saved. He underestimated Action, which is strange since the level today among the pros is quite even and this will show from the future games of Flash where he won't steamroll everyone like in the past. I definitely agree JD could be much more precise with a help from a specialist to strengthen his mindset and motivation. He had a chance in the 2nd game vs Flash too, besides Flash saying in the interview "I knew I win when he overextends". Sad to see JD gone so early, but if he wants to be top again he needs to change things in his life and adapt to the situation (and start giving more respect to others besides Flash).
how do these guys train for such events? do they just play between each other or what exactly happens, I doubt there are many people on this skill level, if they play between each other then the meta game is on a whole different level.
also, its pretty fuckin dumb that SC tournaments keep using the bo1 for early stages
I just wanna see a 4 group, bo3 between each player in the group kinda tournament.
Also Flash wont steamroll everyone cause the maps are not exactly terran friendly, its not like last season with all the air control maps, but still. I kind of like them though, cause they open the room for huge meta game, where people could play the high risk high reward game, fun to watch (e.g. think it was rain who went for a fast expo on that 3man map in close spawn positions and go punished )
this is gold btw... if someone can do such translations when analysis of competitive games occur from the top pros i think he can gather some donations as well
On October 06 2018 02:24 Spitfiree wrote:
how do these guys train for such events? do they just play between each other or what exactly happens, I doubt there are many people on this skill level, if they play between each other then the meta game is on a whole different level.
also, its pretty fuckin dumb that SC tournaments keep using the bo1 for early stages
I just wanna see a 4 group, bo3 between each player in the group kinda tournament.
Also Flash wont steamroll everyone cause the maps are not exactly terran friendly, its not like last season with all the air control maps, but still. I kind of like them though, cause they open the room for huge meta game, where people could play the high risk high reward game, fun to watch (e.g. think it was rain who went for a fast expo on that 3man map in close spawn positions and go punished )
there is bo5 groups and bo7 eliminations in KSL now, i think we can have bo1 double elimination in ASL - it really changes the dynamic
On October 06 2018 02:24 Spitfiree wrote:how do these guys train for such events?
JD was asked this and his reply was he goes through all the strategies in his head. This then boils down to simple X vs Y units battle, which you train vs others.
Only saw first 2 games and tbh, if effort didnt lose 16 drones to that DT he probably would've taken game 2 as well ... Rain felt very passive in both games, no real corsair abuse, nor drops(obv only the 1 DT drop) and still i'd say he lost game 1 solely due to his templar positioning, they seemed to throw "good" storms but it doesnt really matter if your opponent is just going to remake his army in 10s while ur templars die cause they are in front of all of ur army... and honestly I dont know how zergs in that position are susceptible to drop in the main, like just have it covered with overlords, it's not like Rain couldve done much about it
Last edit: 09/10/2018 21:51
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bigredhoss Cook Islands. Oct 15 2018 00:45. Posts 8648
lol at mini trying to fast expand vs flash when his rush is like 100% effective lol. he just sucked after that. lost his 2 reavers while trying to carrier rush zzz
better reaver micro in game 2 [not missing that shot vs tank on the ramp...and very obviously not losing his 2 reavers later] and he probably wins that game. bit of a shame, but he got mauled in games 1 and 3.
Yeah, highest level of TvZ both ways in that match. Really cool innovative stuff, hope Effort didn’t empty the tank and has something left for Flash (or mini). Whatever happens in semis, finals is a non-mirror with elite talent.
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[GiTM]-Ace United States. Oct 22 2018 00:24. Posts 1585
blackjacki2 United States. Oct 23 2018 03:26. Posts 2581
On October 22 2018 23:27 whammbot wrote:
great ZvT scrap! None of that late game macro bs
Fun to watch but at the same time I'd like to be able to see some standard macro games too. Literally every game is bust or tap out vs these greedy 1/1/1 builds. We just need the busts to work more than 50% of the time so the meta can switch back to Terrans not being so greedy where Zergs can actually compete in a macro game.
Fun to watch but at the same time I'd like to be able to see some standard macro games too. Literally every game is bust or tap out vs these greedy 1/1/1 builds. We just need the busts to work more than 50% of the time so the meta can switch back to Terrans not being so greedy where Zergs can actually compete in a macro game.
I agree with this 100%. That said, I think I am going to watch the last game of this match like 6 times
On October 23 2018 19:03 alejandicto wrote:
Really excited for the finals, btw when are the semifinals?
those were the semi finals
Flash vs SHuttle & Effort vs Last
if you re asking about the finals - not quite sure, liquidpedia says 28th October for the final which is this Sunday, but no info about the 3rd place match
Effort needs to instill some fear in Flash by showing all those all-in builds. Otherwise it's just another "Flash is playing with his food" type of finals. A scrappy Zerg has a better chance of fucking with Flash's builds than any Zerg build out there. I feel if Flash knows you can go five games doing all-in builds it allows you to set up for a macro game more. Most of Flash's losses vs Z in the past finals e.g. Effort, JD had been to finely crafted allins that makes him more tentative in setting up his perfect builds. Jangbi has had most success vs Flash precisely because he's such a fearless, crafty player who gambles a lot in big games
KSL Group A - Rain VS Light and Where vs Action, I'm just gonna say that all matches were so fucking good. Other groups are in the same channel, will post them when i watch them
Thanks in advance for your cooperation,
The Mod Staff
(Do not reply to this message. No one will receive it.)"
I just saw it is for the top post from this page, which I do NOT consider a spoiler thus I will stop posting in threads requiring spoilers since I obviously misunderstand your interpretation of the spoiler definition and I don't want to get a ban for something like this.
Well, the two best for me could be player A and B, while the two best for you could be C and D - this is not a spoiler for me (I haven't named any players etc).
On October 26 2018 14:54 Expiate wrote:
Well, the two best for me could be player A and B, while the two best for you could be C and D - this is not a spoiler for me (I haven't named any players etc).
At the very least, the 'Two best' in the finals means Flash is in the finals. I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean a Flash vs Effort finals but comon, don't say that it isn't obvious from the statement that Flash won his match.
don't say that it isn't obvious from the statement that Flash won his match.
If it is obvious mate, it is not a spoiler aka you already know for yourself Flash will be there, if you don't then how do you know I consider Flash among the two best from these 4 players (I am not Artosis in disguise and I never ever wrote on these forums before I consider either one of these two as "Best", and even if I did the two best statement might relate to their current form).
It's your mind which relates statements to facts, not my writings requiring spoilers.
Flash is the undisputed best player in the world; there is not a close second either. Therefore, if he is the best in the world, he is also one of the two best out of the 4 players remaining (talk about a trivial logical jump. lol )
Of course ex-ante it is very likely he will be in the finals, let's say 95% he will win his match. It is not a certainty however.
If anyone who knows even the smallest info about the Starcraft scene says "Wow the best player in the world isn't in the finals" or "The best player is in the finals again", this is the exact same statement as saying "Flash lost his match" or "Flash won his match". I don't care much that you said that, and I don't think it was some egregious sin or something, I am just more dumbfounded by your insistence that you didn't spoil it.
You did spoil it, everybody makes mistakes sometimes and it's not a big deal, don't worry about it.
If anyone who knows even the smallest info about the Starcraft scene says "Wow the best player in the world isn't in the finals" or "The best player is in the finals again", this is the exact same statement as saying "Flash lost his match" or "Flash won his match".
Not if one means the current form of the player and you can't know what is meant exactly by that statement. For example "the two best" in previous Afreeca did not include Flash. Simple logic.
Tell the mod to fix his mistake (and remove the warning) or I'll stop posting in spoiler threads. There is no third option here.
Hmm, I'm not sure what I should say that would illustrate my point more clearly.
Of course you could say 'when I said best player you don't know in what way I'm talking about, I might have meant the players with the best shuttle micro and therefore you don't know if I'm talking about Flash or not." Given you said no such specification and the context of the thread though, it would be ridiculous. It would be almost as absurd if I said
"OMG I can't believe shuttle won, what an epic match" and if you bitched at me for telling you the results of his Starcraft match, I would say "well I wasn't necessarily talking about his starcraft game... I was actually talking about a pickup soccer game he played in yesterday". Given the place and time I made the statement, nearly everybody would understand it to mean he won the last starcraft match that he played.
If you still disagree with what I say, we would probably have to discuss logic and information/signalling at a much more basic level, which I'm sure neither of us have time for.
Alright, can't help myself, so I guess I'll waste a bit more time.
As a poker player you probably have an understanding of signalling and how statements and actions give away information about all kinds of things. In this thread, you can think of a spoiler as anything that gives away information about potential match or game results. For example, in my previous post, I said "I am going to watch the last game 6 times", indicating the last game was good. Notice I was careful to not say which game, because that could give away information about game results. Let's say that the game I liked happened in game 5 of the match for instance: if I said "I'm going to watch the 5th game 6 times", once you get to game 4, you know the results of game 4 before the game even starts, because you know the match goes to a 5th game.
Another example: lets say Rain plays a match and someone says "holy cow I just can't believe how good Rain is, he is playing unbelievably well". I think you might say this isn't a spoiler because it didn't state whether Rain lost or won, only that he played extremely well. However, this statement signals a large amount of info: a smart reader might not be 100% certain that Rain won after reading it, however the conditional probability of Rain having won given that someone wrote that statement is extremely high.
Similarly, if someone came into the thread right after elimination matches involving Flash and said "Well, looks like the best player isn't in the ASL finals two seasons in a row", it is sending an extremely strong signal about what happened in Flash's match. Sure, the person didn't explicitly say Flash lost, but still a lot of information has been received by knowing readers.
So rule of thumb: just think about what you wrote and what information it signals, and if a person could adjust their probabilities of which player was going to win based on what you said, just throw it in spoilers to be safe
Exactly because I did not specify any details it is not a spoiler. I don't find it neither ridiculous, nor absurd. And since I speak only for myself, you can't know my pov. If Flash was outplayed and haven't made the final, and I wrote the same statement, what would you do then:
1) Argue with me Flash was one of the two best
2) Tell me I have done a mistake and Flash did not make the final
I would do neither thing, because either one of those things gives away info about the matches (or I would do so in spoilers).
I'm finished clogging up this nice thread with my rambling, if you would actually like to have a real discussion about this, I'd be happy to make some time to talk about it later. PM me if you would like, we can talk on Skype or something. Cheers.
Signaling comes from the way of wording. It is an international forum so it's quite understandable people might misinterpret things. I clearly didn't say "All times best player made the final" and if someone thought this it is his fault, not mine. I might have said the two most pretty SC players made it and someone like Artosis with Flash bromance would instantly be spoiled perhaps - again, it would not be my fault thus the warning is wrong in this case. Anyway, I wanted to make things clear, so you understand the mod overextended in this situation.
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bigredhoss Cook Islands. Oct 27 2018 19:59. Posts 8648
lol of course it was a spoiler, jesus christ at this bizarro try-hard reasoning trying to say it wasn't. i mean whatever, it's not a big deal, etc. but yes it was a spoiler.
'I'm glad that stupid bug race got stomped in that TvZ
btw it's completely subjective which race more resembles bugs, it could totally be either one. or maybe i was referring to a bug as some kind of glitch in the terran buildings, totally not a spoiler guys'
mod is basing his opinion of spoiler on his bias thinking that Flash is the best player ever, while the argument here is that the 2 best players made the final, which is obvious since they won their games, except there is no specification, thus mod has warned Expiate based on his beliefs. Assuming something does not make it right, get ur shit together.
if it wasnt Flash making the finals, there would be no warning for the exact same post, would there be...
Last edit: 27/10/2018 20:01
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bigredhoss Cook Islands. Oct 27 2018 20:07. Posts 8648
On October 27 2018 19:00 Spitfiree wrote:
mod is basing his opinion of spoiler on his bias thinking that Flash is the best player ever, while the argument here is that the 2 best players made the final, which is obvious since they won their games,
you don't think it's possible for the best player (as in the person who played the best in said BO5) to lose a BO5 in BW?
you guys are retarded... Flash is considered by pretty much everybody in the BW scene not only the current best player but the best player of all time by a big margin, saying the best passed heavily implied Flash did.
"oh but you cant know whats inside my head and.." shut the fuck up and use simple spoiler tags when commenting on fresh results, period.
blackjacki2 United States. Oct 28 2018 08:07. Posts 2581
Anyone that's dumb enough to think that "the 2 best players are in the finals" isn't a spoiler that Flash is in the finals might just be dumb enough to believe that Shuttle is a better player than Flash. So maybe he's telling the truth and he's just really dumb? In which case we owe him an apology.
traxamillion United States. Oct 28 2018 09:47. Posts 10468
Effort fpvods got me back into the game a couple years ago. Raw skill and handles pressure. Great games and just so well played by effort. Zerg is the coolest race by far and sk/effort/jd/larva/her0/zer0 and a few others keep this game alive imo
Great that EFFORT did not go the long game and pressured early most games. It's really the only way to beat Flash and the only time I saw Flash completely get owned was vs Last who was on an insane tear and 3-0 Flash. Nice use of the the burrow and hydra-ling felt like it was 2000 again
On October 28 2018 15:19 VanDerMeyde wrote:
I had to mute that commentator.
seriously why do they go away from tastetosis for the biggest series of the tournament?
Blizzcon > ASL - they are commenting SC2 games and there is an incoming Rain vs Last BW show match as well
@blackjacki saying that the 2 best players are in the finals means that the 2 players which won their games are in the final, its the literal equivalent, if you understand the statement in any other way then you're auto assuming things, which is your own problem
flash literally killing his base 2nd game with effort having no units, "effort might hold this" .... i mean even if you have never played RTS you'd think "is that guy fucking high"
I feel like effort completely disregarded ZvT meta altogether and pressured him with weird timings ... he lost the 2 games where he played the meta and got wrecked, the commentators made it look like he had a chance in game 3, but that was very far from the truth, like Flash had 8 vessels that couldnt be contested in any way, perhaps if effort didnt suicide his mutas it wouldve looked differently...
anyone else notice how Flash stormed off stage the second he typed GG? guy seems pretty emotional, must be tough to be the GOAT and to lose a final
Maybe it's just because I've been watching all the big tournaments lately, but these commentators are much better than they used to be -- they were completely horrible a few months ago, now they're passable in a vacuum, but still terrible compared to Tastosis.
Excellent finals, really enjoyed those games.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
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blackjacki2 United States. Oct 29 2018 00:08. Posts 2581
On October 28 2018 22:15 Spitfiree wrote:
@blackjacki saying that the 2 best players are in the finals means that the 2 players which won their games are in the final, its the literal equivalent, if you understand the statement in any other way then you're auto assuming things, which is your own problem
The players that win their games are always in the finals.... so why would he even post that if that was the intention of the statement? You think he has nothing better to do than make meaningless posts?
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blackjacki2 United States. Oct 29 2018 00:15. Posts 2581
On October 28 2018 23:00 Daut wrote:
Maybe it's just because I've been watching all the big tournaments lately, but these commentators are much better than they used to be -- they were completely horrible a few months ago, now they're passable in a vacuum, but still terrible compared to Tastosis.
Excellent finals, really enjoyed those games.
I feel exactly the same way. NoregreT has gotten a ton better now that he actually knows the game and isn't just "a sc2 guy casting Brood War." It's kind of sad that he's more insightful than Rapid though considering Rapid has had years of a head start on BW knowledge lol
Haven't checked starcraft vids for a number of months, excited to see a lot of uploads on afreeca. Watching the flash/effort finals atm, surely gg's
Thx 4 the thread bros
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
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FrinkX United States. Oct 29 2018 01:04. Posts 7561
why dont u guys just watch the korean stream instead of rapid/no regret?
they've casted a handful of times now. do we not learn from our mistakes? they are not the only viewing option.
i hate people who spoil with a fucking passion, but nothing tilted me more than reading the discussion afterwards as to whether it was spoiling or not. holy fucking shit punch yourselves in the face
bitch on a pension suck my dong
Last edit: 29/10/2018 01:11
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FrinkX United States. Oct 29 2018 01:05. Posts 7561
Assortment of thoughts:
1. Flash is obviously the best player in the world -- he has the highest ELO, the most accomplishments in the past, a winning record vs every other player, and has finished 11155 in the previous 5 ASLs while nobody else even made the finals twice. Saying "the two best players made the finals" spoils Flash vs Shuttle, but does it really matter? Shuttle was probably <3% in the series anyway. Last however, was probably considered the better player in his series with Effort, so this match was not spoiled. Think the comment was a relatively light spoiler overall, and probably not deserving of a warning. The argument afterwards gave me AIDS though.
2. My general view on spoilers in this thread is, don't post info that would spoil a match without spoiler tags in the thread before a link/video to the match is posted (so that someone trying to avoid spoilers can begin reading on an earlier page and see a link before reading a comment), and try to wait 24 hours before posting without tags. Since the match is now over 24 hours old and the youtube was posted above this comment, I will not be using spoiler tags in this comment.
3. I cannot believe Flash lost to lings in game 1, held off the burrowed strategy game 2 after having a couple vultures surrounded, or that Effort won game 5 after Flash completely crushed the muta attack and sniped a lot of overlords with wraiths.
4. This is probably not true with respect to individual matchup ELO or his historical winrates, but I think TvZ is Flash's most vulnerable matchup. On neutral maps he completely smothers Protoss players, and other than the 0-3 vs Last in season 1 of ASL, Terrans seem to have no chance vs him. He really crushes zergs in the 8-15 minute window, but is susceptible to ling timings early (vs both Effort and Action), and elite dark swarm users that grab 4 gas can beat any Terran. I don't want to call it an imbalance, especially when the rest of the matchup looks so difficult for Zerg, but as a Protoss player it sometimes looks impossible for a Terran to beat an elite 5 gas Zerg with no melee units that fire under dark swarm (firebats just do splash and can't be the backbone of an army like zealots/archons). When Terrans do win, it's cause they simultaneously outlast the Zerg and perform a couple base killing drops that reduce the Zerg's gas count. I think Zergs are starting to figure out that the time to kill Flash is either very early with lings (or do enough damage with the lings that the mutas have an easy cleanup) or with dark swarm late and they cannot win in the mid game.
5. Effort's 2 base swarm build was incredible. Soulkey likes to 2 base into guardians, but this seems way better vs 1/1/1 when Terran have more wraiths/vessels by the time guardians hit.
6. Effort's mole build is also incredible. It's such a small investment and can win or save a game if vultures sneak into a mineral line.
7. It's seemed over the past 6 months that Effort had an edge in ZvZ vs larva/soulkey, but now it also seems that he has made a huge leap in his ZvT compared to them too. And his ZvP looks great, completely steamrolled Rain in ro8.
8. My current top player rankings are 1. Flash, 2. Last, 3. Effort, 4. Rain, and a huge dropoff to whoever is #5. Effort vs Rain is close, and I'd normally be inclined to put Rain ahead due to more consistent results lately, but Effort beating Rain/Last/Flash b2b2b in this starleague is something I just can't picture Rain doing. I've been a soulkey truther for a long time in the sense that I thought he was better than his results and capable of beating anyone in this first tier if he prepared and that he was just unlucky to not win something big because ZvZ is such a flip. But when you go long enough without winning, and don't even consistently top 8 things it's a sign you aren't at the highest level. It seems like nobody is close to these 4 players right now (with hero and bisu in military service, both would be in the 3-6 range alongside Rain/Effort right now)
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Last edit: 29/10/2018 15:35
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FrinkX United States. Oct 29 2018 18:21. Posts 7561
short and sweet and very creative games, beautiful finals.
Flash was quite sloppy defending the 1-1-1 opening, Effort just like Soulkey gave him a lot ot grief early on, his vultures were getting trapped easily and his famous SCV control wasn't there
Very good finals, the "early" swarm was awesome and also last game. I am a flash fan but I am happy effort won this.
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FrinkX United States. Nov 02 2018 18:16. Posts 7561
this was just posted on the casual game of the week thread on TL, Flash POV vs Mini
unbelievable game. this man isnt human. must watch
bitch on a pension suck my dong
Last edit: 02/11/2018 18:18
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ToT)MidiaN( United Kingdom. Nov 03 2018 09:30. Posts 5070
On October 29 2018 14:18 Daut wrote:
Assortment of thoughts:
1. Flash is obviously the best player in the world -- he has the highest ELO, the most accomplishments in the past, a winning record vs every other player, and has finished 11155 in the previous 5 ASLs while nobody else even made the finals twice. Saying "the two best players made the finals" spoils Flash vs Shuttle, but does it really matter? Shuttle was probably <3% in the series anyway. Last however, was probably considered the better player in his series with Effort, so this match was not spoiled. Think the comment was a relatively light spoiler overall, and probably not deserving of a warning. The argument afterwards gave me AIDS though.
2. My general view on spoilers in this thread is, don't post info that would spoil a match without spoiler tags in the thread before a link/video to the match is posted (so that someone trying to avoid spoilers can begin reading on an earlier page and see a link before reading a comment), and try to wait 24 hours before posting without tags. Since the match is now over 24 hours old and the youtube was posted above this comment, I will not be using spoiler tags in this comment.
3. I cannot believe Flash lost to lings in game 1, held off the burrowed strategy game 2 after having a couple vultures surrounded, or that Effort won game 5 after Flash completely crushed the muta attack and sniped a lot of overlords with wraiths.
4. This is probably not true with respect to individual matchup ELO or his historical winrates, but I think TvZ is Flash's most vulnerable matchup. On neutral maps he completely smothers Protoss players, and other than the 0-3 vs Last in season 1 of ASL, Terrans seem to have no chance vs him. He really crushes zergs in the 8-15 minute window, but is susceptible to ling timings early (vs both Effort and Action), and elite dark swarm users that grab 4 gas can beat any Terran. I don't want to call it an imbalance, especially when the rest of the matchup looks so difficult for Zerg, but as a Protoss player it sometimes looks impossible for a Terran to beat an elite 5 gas Zerg with no melee units that fire under dark swarm (firebats just do splash and can't be the backbone of an army like zealots/archons). When Terrans do win, it's cause they simultaneously outlast the Zerg and perform a couple base killing drops that reduce the Zerg's gas count. I think Zergs are starting to figure out that the time to kill Flash is either very early with lings (or do enough damage with the lings that the mutas have an easy cleanup) or with dark swarm late and they cannot win in the mid game.
5. Effort's 2 base swarm build was incredible. Soulkey likes to 2 base into guardians, but this seems way better vs 1/1/1 when Terran have more wraiths/vessels by the time guardians hit.
6. Effort's mole build is also incredible. It's such a small investment and can win or save a game if vultures sneak into a mineral line.
7. It's seemed over the past 6 months that Effort had an edge in ZvZ vs larva/soulkey, but now it also seems that he has made a huge leap in his ZvT compared to them too. And his ZvP looks great, completely steamrolled Rain in ro8.
8. My current top player rankings are 1. Flash, 2. Last, 3. Effort, 4. Rain, and a huge dropoff to whoever is #5. Effort vs Rain is close, and I'd normally be inclined to put Rain ahead due to more consistent results lately, but Effort beating Rain/Last/Flash b2b2b in this starleague is something I just can't picture Rain doing. I've been a soulkey truther for a long time in the sense that I thought he was better than his results and capable of beating anyone in this first tier if he prepared and that he was just unlucky to not win something big because ZvZ is such a flip. But when you go long enough without winning, and don't even consistently top 8 things it's a sign you aren't at the highest level. It seems like nobody is close to these 4 players right now (with hero and bisu in military service, both would be in the 3-6 range alongside Rain/Effort right now)
On point 8 - How you feel about soulkey is how many people felt about effort for a long time though. I'm so happy he won because he has consistently under performed relative to his ability for a long time.
One day good. One day bad. And some days, even hope
Last edit: 03/11/2018 17:50
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ToT)MidiaN( United Kingdom. Nov 03 2018 09:35. Posts 5070
Regarding commentators I think rapid and noregret are beyond awful. It's actually a close call between listening to music in the background or them.
If you read comments during live streams a large proportion of them are about how bad the commentators are instead of the game itself. It's a real shame that other than Artosis and Tasteless there's no-one (at least in terms of availability) who are good to listen to and know what they're talking about.
One day good. One day bad. And some days, even hope
tastosis also brings that nostalgia that brood war is legendary for so yeah
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[GiTM]-Ace United States. Nov 04 2018 05:45. Posts 1585
On October 30 2018 01:22 whammbot wrote:
The way I see it, Effort did three things correctly/differently which is something Flash is not familiar in dealing with:
*Early game semi all-in builds
*Use of Hydras early to mid game
*Burrow (have been wondering why this is so underutilized all these years)
i haven't watched flash stream in a couple months but when I did he was familiar with just about everything and even things that caught him by surprise he always seemed to have perfect reactions too. That being said effort used to beat him a pretty decent % of the time on stream back then so i wasn't really surprised seeing him do it in tourney too.
[GiTM]- GoSu in the Making
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LemOn[5thF] Czech Republic. Nov 04 2018 18:23. Posts 15163
Wow
A Finnish payer won wcs in sc2
History being made
FishEye (ex owner of Liquid incl this forum), Elky and Rhaegar all 3 of which were members of this community at some point, have all been either top2 or top3 in WCG lol
Maybe it's just because I've seen a loooot of sc.. but that game didn't seem too special. Gg tho
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
I also though it was an extraordinary game(I wouldn't call it the 'craziest' though) because it started off with nearly perfect play, interesting build order interaction, and amazing decision making/micro, and over the course of the entire dynamic game it seems both players were playing at an unusually high level, even for top players in the professional scene.
I kinda exaggerated a bit but it was generally the "type" of game that makes broodwar different from any other game. I feel esports games don't have this kind of back and forth that BW has. CSGO does have it to some degree but there's just something different about scrappy games in BW that makes it unique
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FrinkX United States. Nov 15 2018 18:00. Posts 7561
KSL Larva vs Jaehoon + Sharp vs Movie
no spoilers in my spoiler, just about quality of matches & one game in particular is a must watch if u dont have time to watch all games, timestamps included.
I thought movie's micro was abysmal that entire series. Carrier micro was meh, shuttles kept flying into turrets, and scouting scvs would just walk past dragoons as movie tried to attack-move kite and bumble the attacks.
Games start around 09h05m
Flash + JD vs Effort + Leta 2v2 on hunters - they played lots of games, you can view the games from Effort and JDs stream aswell.
The fish call, the shark raise.
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blackjacki2 United States. Nov 29 2018 05:56. Posts 2581
Leta vs modesty series was like watching a starcraft series from 13 years ago
not really, btw i feel KSL is seriously worse in quality with so much pros deciding to skip it... very few games worth watching untill the 1/2 finals kick in... i wonder why flash skips it - he is like auto 1/2 finalist even with his B game = free money
the stress/reward ratio probably not worth it, and he probably makes a lot from streaming already
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FrinkX United States. Nov 30 2018 01:18. Posts 7561
i think flash was out of the country when the qualifiers took place/he wanted to focus on ASL anyways since the finals took place at the beginning of KSL. i forget why everyone else skipped but yea game quality has been bleh. hopefully some cool end games
w/e, not gunna complain, had to wait so long between ASL seasons before KSL came out
bitch on a pension suck my dong
Last edit: 30/11/2018 01:18
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FrinkX United States. Nov 30 2018 07:11. Posts 7561
sharp vs mind last night was pretty good actually, regardless of outcome/it being TvT
On November 29 2018 13:49 Zografa wrote:
not really, btw i feel KSL is seriously worse in quality with so much pros deciding to skip it... very few games worth watching untill the 1/2 finals kick in... i wonder why flash skips it - he is like auto 1/2 finalist even with his B game = free money
The very top players skip it because they're tied up with Afreeca's stream $$ which is majority of their income. Tbh they can make 20k USD in a month by donations and adverts. KSL feels more like BWs Bellator
JD + Flash vs Effort + Myth.Leto (one of Korea's best top 2:2 dudes)
My god this game was too scrappy I did not understand how this played out. I want to see a replay analysis of this haha
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FrinkX United States. Dec 07 2018 12:33. Posts 7561
man ksl really isnt delivering. i think the finals will be really good tho
When Flash, BIsu and JD leaves for the military, we're left with B+ versions of what we used to see. It's not a huge drop-off but man I really need to see games that at least have that level of play. Historically Broodwar spoiled us with better eras each year and since the SSL days this will be the 2nd time we'll be seeing a less elite pool of players competing.
Last edit: 12/12/2018 03:44
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FrinkX United States. Dec 12 2018 04:25. Posts 7561
On December 12 2018 00:34 Daut wrote:
Last vs Soulkey
Happy to see Soulkey win one. He has been such a strong and well-rounded player, I think it's about time.
I agree that last game was great, but Soulkey's advantage was too great going into the midgame. I guess 5-racks isn't an allin in a strict sense, but it is very allin-ish in the sense that you are putting all of the eggs in the 'deny or at least greatly delay the 3rd' basket. Sharp wasn't able to do that, and even though he played great in the second half of the game he couldn't claw back from extreme disadvantage.
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FrinkX United States. Dec 16 2018 12:51. Posts 7561
On December 14 2018 23:59 whammbot wrote:
Unfortunately it's Sharp vs Soulkey
Im expecting 4 games of failed 2 port wraith builds. fucker can't help himself with that stupid build vs zerg
are u thinking of leta?
bitch on a pension suck my dong
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blackjacki2 United States. Dec 16 2018 22:16. Posts 2581
Loved Soulkey's play the entire series, especially game 4(?) where he faked Sharp with the fast lair + hydra den and took a fast 3rd to another nat. There was one moment where Sharp stormed that nat expo and burned down the nydus and Soulkey saved the entire game with a clutch consume + swarm from a half health defiler. Has to be stressful playing as a zerg when if your swarm is just 2 seconds late or out of position you just get run over. It's probably the only matchup where I find myself rooting for one race over the other regardless of who is playing.
On December 14 2018 23:59 whammbot wrote:
Unfortunately it's Sharp vs Soulkey
Im expecting 4 games of failed 2 port wraith builds. fucker can't help himself with that stupid build vs zerg
are u thinking of leta?
Sharp loves "tricks" too, he's managed to win with crafty builds that throw off people who don't know how to adapt (Rain). Leta feels like a worse version of him. I enjoyed game 1 a lot, nostalgia 1 base builds are my favorite thing to watch
I agree with you blackjack, good zerg play is inherently stylish and fun to watch imo. I'm always hoping zergs win, or mid/late game micro based play from other races (like bisu going corsair reaver as or very drop heavy play)
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traxamillion United States. Dec 19 2018 02:44. Posts 10468
zerg is the sickest race by miles. everyone wants zerg to win
Soulkey just went 8-1 in the semifinals and finals vs all terran. beastmode
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FrinkX United States. Dec 21 2018 03:49. Posts 7561
He is just not the JD from the past. His form is in steady decline for long time now. His KSL performance was a pleasant surprise but that was it. I am excited every time he plays and disappointed when he loses after silly mistakes or allins.
yeah jaedong has been riding on pure reputation the last couple of years. before it was only flash who was the hump he needed to overcome but it seems now it's almost everybody else
in the end we should not be expecting much - he is from the oldest players and even with less practice is a top5 zerg... qualifies for every tournament group stage and probably with little more concentration and motivation he could always go into the elimination phase...
If you observe his 3 games from the group - he went for unorthodox strategy all games... even the ZVZ he did not play his usual style.
United States. Sep 04 2018 17:44. Posts 8955
