ASL Season 5 - Page 8

How about late game, assuming you have an advantage after 15 minutes but can't kill zerg and manage to secure your 4th (or 3rd if you dont get corner base)? Turtle your natural, turret your main, and switch over to mech on the other side? Would absolutely love to watch a game get that far, but so far it seems either Terran wins before that or cannot get the 4th base.

It also seems that way on Sparkle, Flash is just 1-2 levels above every other Terran because nobody else is nearly as good at him at anything but the +1 5rax build. Mind seemingly went in with the mindset that he needed to prevent hero from getting another main because a 6 gas zerg is unbeatable, he worked very hard at scouting and keeping vision over the map and wasn't doing much harassment. Flash goes in with the mindset that he is going to be as efficient as possible -- he bunched his air units up to do more damage and is blind to some areas of the map but uses them to constantly harass, kill workers, kill gas, kill morphing hatcheries, kill scourge, pick off overlords, repair his low health units, and try to overcome a 7-8 gas zerg with 5-6 gas himself. It's insane he can be that efficient and make the map a 50/50 or better against the very best players.

Daut I disagree with you about Hero's muta micro in game 5 against Mind. It was an exciting game for sure, but he was making mistakes left and right. Countless times that a muta didn't fire, messed up rally twice (at least I think it was a rally mistake and not a muta command mistake). I remember thinking at one point "they must be getting tired, this doesn't look like pro level anymore", although perhaps considering the sheer length of the fight that is an unfair characterization.

On April 26 2018 18:33 HungarianGOD wrote: Daut I disagree with you about Hero's muta micro in game 5 against Mind. It was an exciting game for sure, but he was making mistakes left and right. Countless times that a muta didn't fire, messed up rally twice (at least I think it was a rally mistake and not a muta command mistake). I remember thinking at one point "they must be getting tired, this doesn't look like pro level anymore", although perhaps considering the sheer length of the fight that is an unfair characterization.

I went back and rewatched it, there were more mistakes than I noticed during first watch, but I still think it was pretty great -- he lost one muta unnecessarily, a few were damaged more than they should have been when chasing a medic, and he had a few idle and not in battle while he was intensely microing and just mashing hotkeys to macro, but overall he managed to pressure Mind incessantly for 8 straight minutes, picked off lots of turrets/scvs/marines and even a medic all while expanding twice to get 4 gas running, constantly spending his money on muta/scourge, and pressure hard enough to keep Mind producing only wraiths/marines/turrets and prevent him from ever making an armory to get goliaths or valks. It wasn't quite as good as I originally thought, but I don't think we can expect much more from someone in a 10 minute long micro battle in an elimination game after 2 hours of grueling starcraft against a top 3 Terran in the world.

I cant believe Mind couldnt take the base below his main in the 1st game, he was doing great multi-tasking attacks, great but what is the point if you cant hold that base which he should do with ease with tanks above and a bunker or something, it feels as if he actually is lacking the APM of the strategy he tries to do.

On April 27 2018 06:14 Baalim wrote: I cant believe Mind couldnt take the base below his main in the 1st game, he was doing great multi-tasking attacks, great but what is the point if you cant hold that base which he should do with ease with tanks above and a bunker or something, it feels as if he actually is lacking the APM of the strategy he tries to do.

It's hard to do because herO was expoing like a mad man. herO just needed to stabilize vs the drops/harass in order to win. If Mind let's herO take a breath while he secures an expo he may be just as good as dead anyway.

On April 27 2018 06:14 Baalim wrote: I cant believe Mind couldnt take the base below his main in the 1st game, he was doing great multi-tasking attacks, great but what is the point if you cant hold that base which he should do with ease with tanks above and a bunker or something, it feels as if he actually is lacking the APM of the strategy he tries to do.

He should have been able to hold off what hero used to prevent the expansion. But if hero brought defilers and dark swarmed the bunkers it would have been very difficult to hold while doing everything else (not apm wise, just splitting forces between defending main from drops, starting area from attacks, and having enough forces to harass hero's new expansions). I agree though, it's bad that hero was able to deny the expo without using a single dark swarm.

I guess what Mind should have done is secure the expansion, tech switch to mech on the other side, and then use mines/tanks to counter swarm.

On April 27 2018 16:39 Daut wrote: I guess what Mind should have done is secure the expansion, tech switch to mech on the other side, and then use mines/tanks to counter swarm.

yeah thats what I mean, I would understand if he was denied by dark swarms but he was denied by silly attacks at one point he has a marines that would have easily held the expansion if they had a single medic but they didnt.

On April 27 2018 08:47 blackjacki2 wrote: It's hard to do because herO was expoing like a mad man. herO just needed to stabilize vs the drops/harass in order to win. If Mind let's herO take a breath while he secures an expo he may be just as good as dead anyway.

Yeah its hard but it was very clear that he was trying to operate at a pace faster than he can actually play

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snow vs flash is very interesting. you guys are a gambling crowd. I heard pinnacle was offering like 4:1 odds for snow victory, and while flash is flash, I just have to say, this is a very, very good offer.. If I had any money available for betting, I'd put it all on him. Seems like the odds-setters went by name recognition without factoring in map balance - Larva was a solid favorite against Mini too, by the same odds-makers, although the consensus among the good players I talked to before the game was that Mini was a big favorite. I mean I think flash probably is a slight favorite for the series because he's flash, but it's more like a 55:45 kind of favorite, not 75-25/80-20 like odds indicate. Third world and Transistor are both good pvt maps, snow is one of the best pvters (especially with the reaver-carrier style which is what you want to do on those maps), flash's tvp is his worst, and they're playing 3 out of 5 games on third world/transistor.

Last I checked Snow was +255 on pinnacle. I'd guess he's >29% to win given it's Flash's worst matchup, good maps for PvT, snow's great at PvT, and these are actually good maps for Snow's skill with shuttles, but I'm not 100% on it just because Flash is such a monster. I don't have access to a pinnacle account, but going to look to make a small wager on Snow.

Really looking forward to tomorrow's match. I also think that Snow probably has the highest chance of beating Flush, but tbh I don't feel like the odds (+255 = 28.2% Snow wins) are too much off. Flash is just way too good. I think Flash is maybe like 65 - 70% to win it even on those maps.

Here is a solid preview of the series on tl.net:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/533288-asl5-ro8-preview-pt2-snow-fall

I like Snow's chances on Transistor and Flash's chances on Sparkle. Third World is getting played twice if it goes to 5 games.