^ Tasteless was never a very good caster to me but holy shit I miss him so much after hearing this guy. Where do they find these people? Doesn't even know which half of the map belongs to which player.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
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whamm!   Albania. Oct 10 2017 15:29. Posts 11625
He's an SC2 guy who was a good caster for the game but yeah i feel for the dude he's been getting a lot of hate lol
Group d JD, Stock, Rain and Soulkey - group of death
Agree with Spets regarding ZvZ at least, and maybe ZvP too. Don't know why he tried for the hidden hatch expand, seemed unnecessary/stupid. JD's muta micro is still unparalleled, but that's not enough.
Still, cannot believe JD lost that game to Rain after the near bust. Just a really tough group for him in general with no terrans. But soulkey would not have lost vs Rain from JD's position.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Last edit: 10/10/2017 23:26
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blackjacki2   United States. Oct 11 2017 06:11. Posts 2581
we saw another zerg do a hidden expo on that map but he did it to the back expo that can only be accessed by worker slide when you kill off the assimilators so it was safe from ling attacks. Really bad idea to try to hide a base right there, especially in the mirror when the opponent knows exactly how far you should be in your build order and has overlords scoping shit out. Should be pretty easy for a pro to realize that you have more than your showing.
Really sad to see JD exit. Based on these brackets I think we are likely to see a SK vs Flash finals. SK beat flash in the ASL team battle ace match and flash beat SK out of ASL last season. Would love to see a SK vs Flash finals with SK winning to create a new great TvZ rivalry now that Jaedong is receding
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spets1   Australia. Oct 11 2017 10:22. Posts 2179
whamm!   Albania. Oct 14 2017 04:18. Posts 11625
Betting is on! Won last time picking Soulkey and Jaedong which was a gimme. It gets more compllicated with Bo5s later next week
Larva - he is terrible vs top TBLS and vs 2nd tier players BEST ZERO LAST SK etc, well he sucks vs them too lol. I'm not fooled by the colored beard/glasses, that guy is shit. His willingness to play TBLS 24/7 makes him dangerous against lesser players though, his sheer confidence and experience makes him better than he really is vs others.
,
Odds to win Bo3 +119
Rain - is kind of the best of the 3rd tier players so it's really close here, but probably going with betting on him and his creative PvZ. His macro is shitty but he can micro and multitask very well, does well if there aren't a lot of exchanges early on or his creative builds somewhat hurt his opponent.
Odds to win Bo3 -145
Personally I'm taking Rain here all day, Larva though is a bit "lucky" having fought 2 Zergs and beating them with hustle plays, not really indicative of skill. Also bet on Soulkey-165 to beat Hero, Bisu -385 to beat Killer (i hope "brainfart" bisu doesnt show up though)
About Jaedong, him coming back was great but he was on a downward trajectory the first time he retired. His skills have definitely left him and all that's left are his metagame mastery and his ability to play courageous strats and make opponents pay if they don't play perfectly.
im pretty bad at this game but it seems like the only way to go in a PvZ vs that guy is by turtling till late game... then again if you cant have a map control as a zerg then you're prob done
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PoorUser   United States. Oct 23 2017 00:08. Posts 7471
This is not from ASL but a recent epic game between Flash and Larva
Last edit: 23/10/2017 19:39
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Joe   Czech Republic. Oct 23 2017 21:32. Posts 5987
On October 23 2017 18:19 alejandicto wrote:
This is not from ASL but a recent epic game between Flash and Larva
Epic
there is a light at the end of the tunnel... (but sometimes the tunnel is long and deep as hell)
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traxamillion   United States. Oct 24 2017 00:03. Posts 10468
Whamm larva is a top 3 player now. TLBS does not crush him, in fact he would virtually never lose a bo5 to stork.
And if you want to argue he isn't top 3 he is at least top 5. Don't be fooled by his previous offline performances. He has improved a ton, got over his nerves, and is a monster in spon matches
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traxamillion   United States. Oct 24 2017 00:04. Posts 10468
He will almost certainly be playing Flash in these ASL finals
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Daut   United States. Oct 24 2017 00:15. Posts 8955
I didn't know anything about Larva before this event, but he seems amazing -- great defense, great micro, better tactics than JD ever had, and clever strategies. He seems to macro worse than other top guys, but he makes up for it with unreal defiler control. Think Hero would get demolished by either Flash/Bisu in finals, really hope Larva wins.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Last edit: 24/10/2017 00:16
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Daut   United States. Oct 24 2017 00:55. Posts 8955
Seems like Bisu is a moderate to large favorite vs Larva, Flash is a moderate to large favorite vs both Bisu/Larva but less of a favorite vs Larva than Bisu?
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Last edit: 24/10/2017 00:56
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Liquid`Drone   Norway. Oct 24 2017 01:37. Posts 3093
flash is favorite against all, but I do think Larva has the best shot at beating him - and it's a fair shot. He's a complete player, good at everything, and with the ability to mix it up in a series. Game 1 vs Rain is such a great way to start off a bo5 - when you face that, it really fucks with your mindset for the rest of the series. That's exactly the type of play you see from a champion.
I really hope we get a flash vs larva finals. Larva has a zvz to go through though, so in a way, I'm more confident flash makes it. Flash vs Hero would be anticlimatic imo, I see that ending in a 3-0.
I also don't think I would regard bisu as a favorite against larva. Larva seems to really excel at defending against harassment, from the games against Rain, his issues were more related to handling a huge mid-game army, but the way he handled the continuous storm drops was absolutely amazing. I expect that if he faces bisu, he's actually gonna make a spore colony in his third, and not die against the sair+dt harassment. In a way, I think Bisu is a better fit for Larva than Rain was, even if Bisu is also a superior player and harder to face for most zergs. Also wonder how Flash vs Bisu is gonna play out (I don't see mind winning at all), I think both crossing field and gold rush can favor reaver into carrier, and that's what I expect Bisu to show up with.
lol POKER
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Daut   United States. Oct 24 2017 02:23. Posts 8955
I watched Larva play a series against each player from last week. Bisu went 3-0 in very one sided games while Flash went 5-5 vs Larva (in games I saw). I think Bisu's PvZ is just too strong/relentless
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
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Liquid`Drone   Norway. Oct 24 2017 02:44. Posts 3093
I did not watch those games, but I saw that he went 6-4 against Bisu in sponsored matches in September. (and 3-7 vs Flash).
lol POKER
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Daut   United States. Oct 24 2017 03:35. Posts 8955
On October 24 2017 01:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I did not watch those games, but I saw that he went 6-4 against Bisu in sponsored matches in September. (and 3-7 vs Flash).
So basically he's really good, lol
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
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PoorUser   United States. Oct 24 2017 04:34. Posts 7471
On October 23 2017 23:15 Daut wrote:
I didn't know anything about Larva before this event, but he seems amazing -- great defense, great micro, better tactics than JD ever had, and clever strategies. He seems to macro worse than other top guys, but he makes up for it with unreal defiler control. Think Hero would get demolished by either Flash/Bisu in finals, really hope Larva wins.
a hero/flash finals would be tragic but heros zvp is great and hero/bisu finals would probably be fun.
Gambler Emeritus
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whamm!   Albania. Oct 24 2017 10:06. Posts 11625
larva is garbage. Rain played like me in that series. Larva has been a long running joke in the pro scene, online stream games he might pull off some wins vs flash, but that's because he plays flash 200 games a week lol. he's got the swagger of a top 10 but he's just technically bad. He's just the most masochistic bw player alive which is why flash loves playing him when flash is trying something
Last edit: 24/10/2017 10:10
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Liquid`Drone   Norway. Oct 24 2017 11:01. Posts 3093
whamm you're totally out of date. What you said was true like 4 months ago, but lately he's been sporting the best win rates of anyone against the top dogs. It's probably the masochism paying dividends tbh.
there's a thread on teamliquid dedicated to Larva's progress, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522647-larvas-progress-report
between june 2016 and april 2017 his stats against 'the top 3' were:
Larva vs. Bisu: 30/113 = 0.265
Larva vs. Last: 44/169 = 0.260
Larva vs. FlaSh: 59/216 = 0.273
July, August, September 2017 against the same players?
Bisu: 17-18
Last: 38-24
Flash: 16-37
So flash still has his number tbh. But Flash sports those winrates or better against pretty much anyone.
And apparently the october games have been going worse. But now with ASL coming to an end, I actually think it's fairly likely that he's not showing off his best builds in less important and streamed matches.
On October 24 2017 10:01 Liquid`Drone wrote:
whamm you're totally out of date. What you said was true like 4 months ago, but lately he's been sporting the best win rates of anyone against the top dogs. It's probably the masochism paying dividends tbh.
there's a thread on teamliquid dedicated to Larva's progress, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/522647-larvas-progress-report
between june 2016 and april 2017 his stats against 'the top 3' were:
Larva vs. Bisu: 30/113 = 0.265
Larva vs. Last: 44/169 = 0.260
Larva vs. FlaSh: 59/216 = 0.273
July, August, September 2017 against the same players?
Bisu: 17-18
Last: 38-24
Flash: 16-37
So flash still has his number tbh. But Flash sports those winrates or better against pretty much anyone.
And apparently the october games have been going worse. But now with ASL coming to an end, I actually think it's fairly likely that he's not showing off his best builds in less important and streamed matches.
interesting, where did you ge those numbers. tanks.
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Liquid`Drone   Norway. Oct 24 2017 12:03. Posts 3093
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
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ggplz   Sweden. Oct 24 2017 18:41. Posts 16784
Most of the games in lower tiers were pretty shit but love the latest games.
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
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WhyYouKickMyDog   United States. Oct 25 2017 22:49. Posts 1623
I've been watching larva stream, he's incredible, hard work is paying off. glad he's handling the pressure well.
Last edit: 29/10/2017 04:06
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blackjacki2   United States. Oct 29 2017 18:07. Posts 2581
whammbot   Belarus. Oct 30 2017 13:53. Posts 517
the one time i get on the larva bandwagon he decides to lose to hero and lose my bet lol
fuck larva
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Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Oct 30 2017 21:09. Posts 9634
felt like Larva is a much better micro player, yet he lost to some minor macro mistakes - am i correct?
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Daut   United States. Oct 30 2017 21:51. Posts 8955
On October 30 2017 12:53 whammbot wrote:
the one time i get on the larva bandwagon he decides to lose to hero and lose my bet lol
fuck larva
What odds did you get? And where were you betting?
Hated Larva's cheese attempt in game 1, but other than that it seemed like he had slightly superior positions based on strategy than hero but got outmicroed in muta battles. Also noticed he lost an overlord right after the mutas popped in games 4/5 partially due to slightly slower mutas, but he should have brought them back earlier in a greedier build. It's probably just a lot of variance in matchup, but I heard hero is known for godly muta v muta control.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Last edit: 30/10/2017 22:06
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whamm!   Albania. Oct 31 2017 05:06. Posts 11625
zvsz is just a coinflip between these two but like i said larva is basically a subpar player in MMM but he's got tons of experience playing Flash and other top guys so he's really developed an uncanny ability to craft sneaky strats with all that playtime vs Flash (coz daily he's trying to break a genius player who has all his bases covered). hero is the superior player overall but he's kinda too soft a zerg to hold up vs top 5 guys. Flash is getting great odds -1.5, +117 vs Bisu so I'll just bet on that
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whamm!   Albania. Oct 31 2017 06:27. Posts 11625
The AI bot's 4 pool economy build is going to revolutionize ZvP.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
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whamm!   Albania. Oct 31 2017 08:42. Posts 11625
needs a bit of work to defend like flash and cover it's bases early. once it reaches 3 base macro and efficiency kicks in, it's going to be interesting
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Liquid`Drone   Norway. Oct 31 2017 13:52. Posts 3093
the bots have amazing macro and watching them micro 40 individual mutas at the same time, that's something. But their decision-making is horrendous. I'm not really gonna be impressed by them if the only reason why they compete is that they literally have more than 10000 apm - right now, they have 10000 apm and still can't compete. If a bot however is able to compete with humans on an equal mechanical footing I would be immensely impressed and consider it a far greater achievement than the chess or go or poker AIs.
lol POKER
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whamm!   Albania. Oct 31 2017 14:22. Posts 11625
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NMcNasty   United States. Oct 31 2017 17:15. Posts 2039
A little disappointing but whatever. Flash truly does make Terran seem imbalanced. Expand, get siege mode, make some turrets, push out, win. Not sure what the best response is but just regular zealot/goon/arbiter doesn’t seem to cut it. Maybe psi storm or just have carriers be mandatory.
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blackjacki2   United States. Oct 31 2017 17:54. Posts 2581
Bisu made a couple mistakes game 2 -- too many probes and poor stasis in the first attack. I think if he had stasis'ed the back tanks instead of the front ones, and had a few less probes to allow for a slightly larger army when maxed out Flash pushed he could have held the push, and that would give him an advantage going forward, DTs to stop the 4th/5th bases for Flash and quicker remaxing on 5-6 bases. But yea, Flash makes the matchup seem completely imbalanced.
What I'm most disappointed about is that Flash vs Larva and Bisu vs Hero was the matchups everyone wanted to see. I don't really care which one is the finals vs the 3/4 match, but wish the matches were reversed.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Last edit: 31/10/2017 18:19
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FrinkX   United States. Oct 31 2017 21:29. Posts 7561
i really really hate this guy solo casting. i'm switching to the kor version if he's doing the next one. disappointing series given who was playing, hopefully bisu plays better next time
bitch on a pension suck my dong
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whamm!   Albania. Nov 01 2017 00:27. Posts 11625
WHere the helll are the Tastosis duo? Afreeca trying to save some money here or did the ASL didn't really live up to the hype?
There's pretty much always two different english streams I think. Just switch to the second one that doesn't have the annoying noob casting without Artosis. It's not great either but it's a great relief coming from that guy.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
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Liquid`Drone   Norway. Nov 01 2017 00:31. Posts 3093
Tastosis were busy with Blizzcon. I expect they are back for the finals and third player match. (I don't actually know this for sure)
lol POKER
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PoorUser   United States. Nov 01 2017 03:42. Posts 7471
Bisu made a couple mistakes game 2 -- too many probes and poor stasis in the first attack. I think if he had stasis'ed the back tanks instead of the front ones, and had a few less probes to allow for a slightly larger army when maxed out Flash pushed he could have held the push, and that would give him an advantage going forward, DTs to stop the 4th/5th bases for Flash and quicker remaxing on 5-6 bases. But yea, Flash makes the matchup seem completely imbalanced.
What I'm most disappointed about is that Flash vs Larva and Bisu vs Hero was the matchups everyone wanted to see. I don't really care which one is the finals vs the 3/4 match, but wish the matches were reversed.
also pretty sure from his arbiter movements he got stasis first but i think maybe its better to get recall first when you are that far ahead. either way a bit of a disappointing series but flash just makes people look bad so thats to be expected
Gambler Emeritus
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whammbot   Belarus. Nov 01 2017 04:57. Posts 517
Bisu vs Larva is the only match worth betting on, obv a flash vs hero final would suck
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ggplz   Sweden. Nov 01 2017 15:04. Posts 16784
Felt like Bisu was playing worse than usual here but Flash was on fire, more than usual, just incredible control at every position and tactical awareness while macroing like a beast. Very very hard to beat someone who plays so perfectly.
Is Terran OP? Maybe slightly. I think the problem is most other Terran pros aren't capable of executing it as Flash does, it's not really comparable to any other historical pro situation either I think because the skill of all players has increased so much. But then what do you do? You can't really nerf a race because of 1 player. We just have to accept him as the champion for his truly exceptional talent. I feel that Flash definitely has a strong psychological advantage vs most opponents and pros like Bisu seem to be quite fragile when it comes to that. Look at his previous games vs Baxter, he's like a different player.
What sc rm really needs right now is to reincite passion from talented players like Jaedong and put Larva on an intensive ZvZ training program. I also think there should be some discussion on rebalances and bug fixing.
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
Last edit: 01/11/2017 15:45
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whamm!   Albania. Nov 01 2017 15:27. Posts 11625
vultures should cost slightly more,
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YoMeR   United States. Nov 04 2017 07:37. Posts 12435
omg who is this solo noob casting. he's so fucking bad it's depressing.
eZ Life.
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whammbot   Belarus. Nov 05 2017 02:24. Posts 517
that guy literally killed the ASL lmao
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Ryan Neilly   United States. Nov 06 2017 04:18. Posts 1631
i just love checkin in on day9, him and his brother really kick ass met them wcgusa been too long marshall [dak]tnt and i got so fuckin stoned back then it was awesome ahaha
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Daut   United States. Nov 08 2017 02:09. Posts 8955
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
1
ggplz   Sweden. Nov 08 2017 02:39. Posts 16784
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
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blackjacki2   United States. Nov 08 2017 06:52. Posts 2581
Rain fucked up in his series. Bisu fucked up 1 game vs Larva by trying to out muscle 4 base turtle Zerg with 3 base Protoss. I mean technically I couldn't compete with any of them but strategy wise even the highest lvl players do stupid shit.
-> You have larva turtling with sunks, lurker, scourges etc. .. instead of going full blast attack mode and sacrifice all observers/units inefficiently in the process, just go from 3 base to 4 or 5 and turtle yourself while getting corsair/shuttle harassment going. The koreans are godly in SC1 but sometimes they are just very uncreative in what to do at times. Protoss is great defensively, just get more/same amount of bases as Zerg and don't throw Shuttles+units away by trying too hard vs a prepared Zerg with scourges/hydra/overlord all over the map.
Rain's games were so disappointing/frustrating from a strategy perspective. But I love that SC1 is active again and if blizzard would have done a better job with the relaunch it would be even bigger. SC2 seems to die tho, but I think it has hugely to do with the macro mechanics, which basically game theoretically incentivize you to favor macro and be defensive instead of offensive/1 basing. SC1 is much more nuanced with 1 base tactics and every worker means so much more. Just overall more enjoyable because turtling can be punished harder and just in generally the mechanics make for a better game imho.
Last edit: 09/11/2017 15:54
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CCMoz   United Kingdom. Nov 10 2017 10:48. Posts 925
Agreed FiSheYe.
my balls your mouth
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Daut   United States. Nov 12 2017 16:00. Posts 8955
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
1
NMcNasty   United States. Nov 12 2017 18:31. Posts 2039
Surprise, Flash wins handily. Nice auto-win hard counter in game 1 but other wins he just pushes out and it’s over.
No real answer to him really, but I do feel his opponents are losing a little too quickly. Maybe tech and power up a little less, and concentrate on having more units for the mid game push that eventually comes. At least make it to late game. Early and mid game there’s just no chance.
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Daut   United States. Nov 12 2017 19:42. Posts 8955
I really wish hero had 3 lurkers on that ramp in game 4, but doubt it makes any difference. Awesome job game 3 to force drops right after the mech switch.
Still very sad we didn't get Larva/Flash and Hero/Bisu. Larva wouldn't have been able to win game 3 the way Hero was able to, but he would have gotten 3rd gas consistently and turtled up to defilers better.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Last edit: 12/11/2017 19:42
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blackjacki2   United States. Nov 12 2017 20:09. Posts 2581
whammbot   Belarus. Nov 13 2017 10:13. Posts 517
We want that dream battle of two equally skilled players but we all know that never happens now in BW. If Flash goes to army we'll always be thinking that he stomps everyone no question and be a little bugged by it so interest will kinda fade. Soulkey is great in dealing with Flash in their battles online but you can clearly see Flash eventually just catching up to him and shutting him down after a week of studying. SK is the only Flash threat in a bo5 out there right now, period. Unfortunately he cannot devote 100% of practice/study only to Terran, he dies to P and Z in the process.
Last edit: 13/11/2017 10:14
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blackjacki2   United States. Nov 13 2017 19:28. Posts 2581
I really feel kind of bad for zergs having to face Flash. You can't win in the early-game but you can lose. You can't win in the mid-game but you can lose. You can win in the late game but you have to micro your ass off with defilers and you can still lose. They literally have to play optimally just to not die for the first 15 minutes just so they can hope to have a chance to win. Flash is just the best I've ever seen at finding any chink in the armor to exploit and win the game. He knows exactly how many sunkens you need at your natural, exactly how many lurkers you need on a ramp. If at any point you have 1 too few it's just gg.
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whammbot   Belarus. Nov 13 2017 23:51. Posts 517
yea it's getting pretty bad. we used to see some youngin catch up with whoever's been stompin everybody but in Flash's reign it's quite clear nobody comes close to consistently beating him or even closing in skill-wise. the worst thing about Flash is that he is never fancy nor does amazing new things, just godly mechanics with unbelievable gamesense. SoulKey is coming in to his own but poor guy is so focused on beating Flash his ZvZ has turned to shit lately lol