What happens when you die? - Page 2

On April 28 2017 17:38 CrownRoyal wrote: Show nested quote + On April 27 2017 09:46 Baalim wrote:   On April 27 2017 09:10 Skoal wrote: everything is a wave, a cycle, what has happened once will most likely happen again how did you reach to that conclusion? It's really not that complicated, the universe is huge. Also, in the grand scheme of things, we are rather simple. If something has happened once that inherently makes it possible. Anything that is possible will inevitably happen given a large enough space and a large enough amount of time. If we load up every member of lp.net on a spaceship, assuming we have the technology to not "die" we will inevitably run into a copy of one of us. A literal, down to the last particle copy. Essentially the same thing as a boltzman brain that was linked above.

the universe will move away from itself faster than you can sample for an exact copy of yourself by traveling through it

On April 29 2017 12:47 Skoal wrote: Show nested quote + On April 27 2017 09:46 Baalim wrote:   On April 27 2017 09:10 Skoal wrote: everything is a wave, a cycle, what has happened once will most likely happen again how did you reach to that conclusion? the gods have displayed it again and again

On April 30 2017 06:44 Santafairy wrote: Show nested quote + On April 28 2017 17:38 CrownRoyal wrote:   On April 27 2017 09:46 Baalim wrote:   On April 27 2017 09:10 Skoal wrote: everything is a wave, a cycle, what has happened once will most likely happen again how did you reach to that conclusion? It's really not that complicated, the universe is huge. Also, in the grand scheme of things, we are rather simple. If something has happened once that inherently makes it possible. Anything that is possible will inevitably happen given a large enough space and a large enough amount of time. If we load up every member of lp.net on a spaceship, assuming we have the technology to not "die" we will inevitably run into a copy of one of us. A literal, down to the last particle copy. Essentially the same thing as a boltzman brain that was linked above. the universe will move away from itself faster than you can sample for an exact copy of yourself by traveling through it

This among other things make that impossible, people confuse spacial infinity to infinity of possibilities, our universe has laws and clear paths that wont permit things to happen, I explained by those boltzman brain are not possible adnt he possibility of all particles moving to a single piont recreating the big bang is 0 since it violates the laws of nature

On April 28 2017 21:27 Floofy wrote: This means we went from "non existence" to "existing" state. If it happened once, why could it NEVER happen again?

Nobody says it couldn't happen, you could very well reincarnate in a Panda that shoots lasers out of his eyes in another planet, but we have no reason to believe so.

one answer
ggnore
only way to stay "alive" is through children.

how many liters of infant smoothie do you have to baptize yourself with daily to stay alive, lemon?

Infant smoothie or "God's Grace" will save us all! Everything positive is "God's Grace." Everything negative is a blessing in disguise. It is all part of God's Will. I guess that is one way to look at the world. Only people praying a certain way receive grace, blessings, heaven. It is all a bit ridiculous. All I have to do is commit a terrorist act and I am put in a room full of groupie virgins. They are making terrorism Rock n Roll. No wonder there is no fixing of that situation.

I am cool if we put god's will into parenthesis, "God's WIll." It is just how we were made, how we were conditioned, and the randomness moving forward. That is "god's will." "God's Grace" is basically just luck. It is all just luck and randomness. There will always be groundlessness and uncertainty. There will always be suffering. Let the consciousness live on and it will be just more of the same. Heaven would be a simulation of smooth, digestible bliss. Even that would get dissatisfying. Heaven is a walk on the beach on a beautiful day. Everything loses its luster. Even the beach. Even the sun. The sun will die one day. Hell, people are probably going to start to get pretty fucked in like 50 years. BUT THAT IS WHEN JESUS WILL SAVE US!!! Living entire lives of excess and sin in a world where zombies do not exist and Jesus will save us. Oh my god... Oh my goodness... Oh my grace... kill me now... but not really I do not want to die. Uncertainty is a mother fucker. That is my god. Uncertainty and Chaos. Whether or not consciousness continues or not after my heart stops is up to them.

On May 01 2017 06:28 LemOn[5thF] wrote: only way to stay "alive" is through children.

by the time you're a grandfather you'll share 25% of your DNA with your grandchildren and the percentage isn't getting higher as the generations pass.
Better try some sort of brain data upload imo

I've really come to enjoy Baal's posts on these types of topics as I've grown older

{When you die you cease to exist, henceforth the word death. Karma, reincarnation, heaven, hell, is all made up propaganda to control the masses.

All this stuff about simulations is just speculation in an attempt to figure the grand scheme of things just like everything else. Just because we cannot prove it's not true does not make it any more true than the theory of God.

To assume we even have an afterlife because we are spiritual beings shows, the insecurities humans have as a whole.
Humans cannot be content with life the way it is now. Instead, there must always be more, they must go seeking for another one that doesn't exist in the afterlife. Even there hasn't been the least bit of evidence to support this claim, people hold onto this 'idea' as a glimmering light of hope, because there just might be a chance that there is more to life than right now. And that is why faith is one of the most powerful things in the world today. It gives hope for people to persevere in life, even when the reason can be non-existent. }

On May 01 2017 00:24 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On April 30 2017 06:44 Santafairy wrote:   On April 28 2017 17:38 CrownRoyal wrote:   On April 27 2017 09:46 Baalim wrote:   On April 27 2017 09:10 Skoal wrote: everything is a wave, a cycle, what has happened once will most likely happen again how did you reach to that conclusion? It's really not that complicated, the universe is huge. Also, in the grand scheme of things, we are rather simple. If something has happened once that inherently makes it possible. Anything that is possible will inevitably happen given a large enough space and a large enough amount of time. If we load up every member of lp.net on a spaceship, assuming we have the technology to not "die" we will inevitably run into a copy of one of us. A literal, down to the last particle copy. Essentially the same thing as a boltzman brain that was linked above. the universe will move away from itself faster than you can sample for an exact copy of yourself by traveling through it This among other things make that impossible, people confuse spacial infinity to infinity of possibilities, our universe has laws and clear paths that wont permit things to happen, I explained by those boltzman brain are not possible adnt he possibility of all particles moving to a single piont recreating the big bang is 0 since it violates the laws of nature

I'm not really qualified to argue, although I suppose(?) no one here is either.

I'm not sure how it matters if space is expanding, or how it makes it impossible for there to be a boltzman brain existing at some point from a 4d POV of our universe. It might be a stretch to say we would find an identical copy of ourselves with our narrow spectrum of vision but to say that there wouldn't be a copy from a 4d POV of our universe seems uninformed.

@OP: It is not so far from now when people will probably have more information what happens when one dies since it is similar to what happens with *you* after you teleport and teleportation does not sound like fiction any more.

Personally I think the options are two:
1) Materialistic - consciousness dies with brain and *you* never exist any more.
2) Non-materialistic - *you* experience different qualia in different time/universe etc.

Of course as an idealist I believe in option 2). Also, the funny thing with teleportation is that people won't know objectively if one's consciousness stays the same, since you will have to teleport yourself to understand.

On May 02 2017 21:11 CrownRoyal wrote: Show nested quote + On May 01 2017 00:24 Baalim wrote:   On April 30 2017 06:44 Santafairy wrote:   On April 28 2017 17:38 CrownRoyal wrote:   On April 27 2017 09:46 Baalim wrote:   On April 27 2017 09:10 Skoal wrote: everything is a wave, a cycle, what has happened once will most likely happen again how did you reach to that conclusion? It's really not that complicated, the universe is huge. Also, in the grand scheme of things, we are rather simple. If something has happened once that inherently makes it possible. Anything that is possible will inevitably happen given a large enough space and a large enough amount of time. If we load up every member of lp.net on a spaceship, assuming we have the technology to not "die" we will inevitably run into a copy of one of us. A literal, down to the last particle copy. Essentially the same thing as a boltzman brain that was linked above. the universe will move away from itself faster than you can sample for an exact copy of yourself by traveling through it This among other things make that impossible, people confuse spacial infinity to infinity of possibilities, our universe has laws and clear paths that wont permit things to happen, I explained by those boltzman brain are not possible adnt he possibility of all particles moving to a single piont recreating the big bang is 0 since it violates the laws of nature I'm not really qualified to argue, although I suppose(?) no one here is either. I'm not sure how it matters if space is expanding, or how it makes it impossible for there to be a boltzman brain existing at some point from a 4d POV of our universe. It might be a stretch to say we would find an identical copy of ourselves with our narrow spectrum of vision but to say that there wouldn't be a copy from a 4d POV of our universe seems uninformed.

Particles do not move in absolute random patterns as they are governed by the laws of physics like for example, planets and stars are not shaped by randomness, but by gravity, so the phenomena in the universe is always constrained to these laws, so a thing like all particles moving purely by chance to the same spot recreating a big bang is not possible.

Thats why spacial infinite does not mean infinite possibilities, it means infinite possibilities within the laws of physics.

Also we are coming from a big assumption that the universe is indeed infinite, and isotropic

On May 03 2017 00:08 Expiate wrote: @OP: It is not so far from now when people will probably have more information what happens when one dies since it is similar to what happens with *you* after you teleport and teleportation does not sound like fiction any more. Personally I think the options are two: 1) Materialistic - consciousness dies with brain and *you* never exist any more. 2) Non-materialistic - *you* experience different qualia in different time/universe etc. Of course as an idealist I believe in option 2). Also, the funny thing with teleportation is that people won't know objectively if one's consciousness stays the same, since you will have to teleport yourself to understand.

No you dont, if you teleport someone (it seems you are defining it as disintegrating someone and recreating it somewhere else with new atoms) all you create is a continuous consciousness or if you create a new consciousness and the other one dies you still dont know where that other consciousness go.

i go on living as everything else because my life is as much an illusion as their lives aren't


so if i stop experiencing "me" it's pretty irrelevant, because what isn't important is who is experiencing, but rather what is being experienced. the "who" is an ego thinking it's more important than all of the rest of the universe


or, said different:

the nature of qualia (conscious experience) is such that it comes with a perspective of a "self". But qualia itself has a basis, consciousness is one thing. The illusion of separation is part of what we experience, it's what makes us think we are separate.

There is only one experiencer, it experiences you and I and everything, and the nature of those experiences give the illusion of separation between them.

When I die, the experiencer, which is what I really am, goes on experiencing everything else.

On May 02 2017 08:40 TimDawg wrote: I've really come to enjoy Baal's posts on these types of topics as I've grown older

On May 03 2017 00:54 asdf2000 wrote: i go on living as everything else because my life is as much an illusion as their lives aren't so if i stop experiencing "me" it's pretty irrelevant, because what isn't important is who is experiencing, but rather what is being experienced. the "who" is an ego thinking it's more important than all of the rest of the universe or, said different: the nature of qualia (conscious experience) is such that it comes with a perspective of a "self". But qualia itself has a basis, consciousness is one thing. The illusion of separation is part of what we experience, it's what makes us think we are separate. There is only one experiencer, it experiences you and I and everything, and the nature of those experiences give the illusion of separation between them. When I die, the experiencer, which is what I really am, goes on experiencing everything else.

I knew when I read the word Qualia earlier that this thread was gong to turn into crap

Nothing crappy about discussing qualia in a proper context, but the word's being used in a confusing manner here. Qualia is not synonymous with conscious experience or ego. It's more like the content of conscious experience which is unobservable in others and unquantifiable in us. Expiate's view that there is going to be a 'you' that 'experiences qualia' after passing is confusing. Obviously, energy is never created nor destroyed, so "you" in essence are not going to die... but in every meaningful way - yes, you will die, and as an animal, you will always live fearing that death, whether you are conscious of it or not. You could not care less about the raw materials that constitute you and which will be recycled, you care about your ego, your genes. Your current biological structure. You were programmed by evolution for the singular purpose of maintaining that structure so you can pass on your genes.

Travis' post about non-duality/the illusion of the self is not half bad (if you ignore the mentions of qualia) although that message has become kind of a cliché -- it reminds me of the many times I've seen people who start waxing poetic after they've read some Buddhism or some Alan Watts and they try to imprint some Eastern wisdom on everyone. Somehow that wisdom never seems to translate into them living any more wisely though. (Not saying that this applies to you, Travis.)

so if i stop experiencing "me" it's pretty irrelevant, because what isn't important is who is experiencing, but rather what is being experienced.

How is it irrelevant? Are you saying human consciousness is somehow equivalent to a rock or a pile of ashes because they have some kind of experience too and who are we to discriminate?

consciousness is one thing. The illusion of separation is part of what we experience, it's what makes us think we are separate.

There's a catch 22 here. If what we experience as reality is illusion, then we can't know of any absolute from our unknowingness. Now I suppose you might say something along the lines of, "it's just our senses that are unreliable and can't grasp the interconnectedness of everything, but if you go within, you can find the truth and confirm it for yourself." To that I'd simply say: First, I'm skeptical of anyone who claims to have done this, especially in the Western world, and secondly, you can just as easily dismiss it as an illusion, especially if someone used drugs to come to that realization.

I would also add the following: our senses were shaped by evolution and they serve their purpose. That purpose is not to know or to transcend anything (obviously). If we were to abandon them in the quest of some transcendent reality, we would no longer be suited for living and procreating, so we would die and become extinct as a species. What is being preached as the way to enlightenment would then have to be seen as a maladaptation. I guess there's a kind of poetic irony there: if you believe in the teleological argument that Gaia or this one experiencer/the Absolute/God needed us in order to know itself, only to end up destroying itself... I mean, you'd have to say that is one insane God. That would also mean that Ulrich Horstmann was the only philosopher who saw it coming, to a certain extent.

I dont mind the word itself (Qualia), its just one of a list of buzzwords when you know more often than not some sophistic babble is coming your way, epistemology is another favorite one.