I am reading the Bhagavad Gita with commentary from Swami Rama. It talks about a meaning of reaching our fullest potential. That just seems like a solid meaning to me. I do not see anything wrong with it. It also requires further study of what one's fullest potential even means and how does one get there.
“Once I ventured the guess that men worked in response to a vague inner urge for self-expression. But that was probably a shaky theory, for some men who work the hardest have nothing to express. A hypothesis with rather more plausibility in it now suggests itself. It is that men work simply in order to escape the depressing agony of contemplating life – that their work, like their play, is a mumbo-jumbo that serves them by permitting them to escape from reality. Both work and play, ordinarily, are illusions. Neither serves any solid or permanent purpose. But life, stripped of such illusions, instantly becomes unbearable. Man cannot sit still, contemplating his destiny in this world, without going frantic. So he invents ways to take his mind off the horror. He works. He plays. He accumulates the preposterous nothing called property. He strives for the coy eyewink called fame. He founds a family, and spends his curse over others. All the while the thing that moves him is simply the yearning to lose himself, to forget himself, to escape the tragic-comedy that is himself. Life, fundamentally, is not worth living. So he confects artificialities to make it so. So he erects a gaudy structure to conceal the fact that it is not so.”
-- H.L. Mencken
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On November 07 2016 06:05 Loco wrote:
“Once I ventured the guess that men worked in response to a vague inner urge for self-expression. But that was probably a shaky theory, for some men who work the hardest have nothing to express. A hypothesis with rather more plausibility in it now suggests itself. It is that men work simply in order to escape the depressing agony of contemplating life – that their work, like their play, is a mumbo-jumbo that serves them by permitting them to escape from reality. Both work and play, ordinarily, are illusions. Neither serves any solid or permanent purpose. But life, stripped of such illusions, instantly becomes unbearable. Man cannot sit still, contemplating his destiny in this world, without going frantic. So he invents ways to take his mind off the horror. He works. He plays. He accumulates the preposterous nothing called property. He strives for the coy eyewink called fame. He founds a family, and spends his curse over others. All the while the thing that moves him is simply the yearning to lose himself, to forget himself, to escape the tragic-comedy that is himself. Life, fundamentally, is not worth living. So he confects artificialities to make it so. So he erects a gaudy structure to conceal the fact that it is not so.”
@OP: It's all a matter of viewpoint and how one approaches the Absurd. You are free to choose what to belief and how to react to the Absurd, but remember that the search for meaning is unique only to a few (a dog/cat/keyboard doesn't realize this). And your own viewpoint makes it either a privilege or a curse.
And this topic is huge. It's one of the most discussed philosophical themes in art. I'd also recommend "Stalker" by Tarkovsky, but I expect you have already watched it.
Life is pointless but we still have to live it. The end result is of course death but there can be useful results along the way.
"Wonderful importance"
Does following a path of self-realization fall under this?
Where do we stand on something like to be useful to God and his will? It is really stupid but what if it helps this person live.
Do we care about ethics and people harming people?
What about help the alcoholic who still suffers. I feel a lot better about life helping someone. If I can spend some time with some people I care about, be helpful, and get some exercise in I can usually feel pretty good regardless of the circumstances.
Gandhi might have belonged in padded walls. Mother Theresa. I am not sure if I can think of any others who helped a lot of people but were pretty fucking nuts. I bet there are a lot in the "good" and "bad" categories for "wonderful importance" ascribers.
On November 07 2016 06:05 Loco wrote:
“Once I ventured the guess that men worked in response to a vague inner urge for self-expression. But that was probably a shaky theory, for some men who work the hardest have nothing to express. A hypothesis with rather more plausibility in it now suggests itself. It is that men work simply in order to escape the depressing agony of contemplating life – that their work, like their play, is a mumbo-jumbo that serves them by permitting them to escape from reality. Both work and play, ordinarily, are illusions. Neither serves any solid or permanent purpose. But life, stripped of such illusions, instantly becomes unbearable. Man cannot sit still, contemplating his destiny in this world, without going frantic. So he invents ways to take his mind off the horror. He works. He plays. He accumulates the preposterous nothing called property. He strives for the coy eyewink called fame. He founds a family, and spends his curse over others. All the while the thing that moves him is simply the yearning to lose himself, to forget himself, to escape the tragic-comedy that is himself. Life, fundamentally, is not worth living. So he confects artificialities to make it so. So he erects a gaudy structure to conceal the fact that it is not so.”
-- H.L. Mencken
HEAVY HITTER!!!
H.L. nails it.
I do not want to commit suicide though. The horrors the absurdities are not too much to bear. Perhaps the banalities and the mundanities are? No, I can always get some money together and go skiing, watch existential film, grab a meal/coffee with friends, GIVE ME TRANSCENDENCE! I WANT TRANSCENDENCE! AD INFINITUM!
Isn't all this seeking, this chasing, this work and this play meanings?
Artificial is just man made. Of course, man has to make his meanings. There is no God or gods. Of course, they are artificial. I am hoping for a structure that is not gaudy but even if it is gaudy I would prefer that to death. Anyone who does not what keeps you living?
The common mistake is to equate meaning and happiness, the only relation between them is that illusions of meaning serve as solace for misery.
About your examples of Mother Theresa (which was a psycho bitch btw) and Ghandi, their lives were ultimately meaningless, does recognition post-mortem makes your life meaningful? does sparing a drop in a sea of suffering make your life meaningful? It sure is a noble pursuit and it might made them happy but those are still illusions of meaning.
Dont confuse embracing meaninglessness as an hedonistic existence with no morality, you would be falling in the same mistake religious make when they accuse atheist of having no reason to do good when in fact its the opposite, true freedom from eternal punishment or illusions of meaning is the only way to archive true goodness.
I do not give two shits about my recognition post-mortem unless it would somehow harm people I care about but I would be dead so it would not matter anyways.
I think the issue is that I am talking about meanings so my life does not suck. As in I need to do some things so I am not running into the boring, the absurd, the horrible all the time. These things are unavoidable. There are a lot of strategies on how to live life. What I am really saying is Strategies to Life, Strategies in Meaninglessness.
Last paragraph is interesting:
- Helps because it is the right thing to do based on Kantian ethics
- Helps because it is theorized that it will keep him sober
- Helps because it will help him go to heaven
- Helps because it is the Golden Rule
If you saw life as a canvas where you can pain on, a life with a goal, purpose or meaning would be a sacred canvas that will be framed for eternity, every stroke is of extreme importance in what must be perfect.your masterpiece.
A meaningless life would be a canvas that will be tossed to the trash can when you are done, it doesnt matter what you paint, it doesnt matter if you fuck up or create something amazing because your canvas will be thrown away, so the whole point becomes enjoying the process, having fun painting whatever the hell you want.
I hate the fact that I left the house today and the meeting was shit and everyone is talking about voting... Horrible! That is NOT what I meant to paint. I told everyone to FUCK OFF! I am eating pizza and watching a movie by myself. I am antisocial because much of society sucks. No I do not want to talk about voting or the Monday Night Football game. I want to talk about how we are canvases and we can experiment around and that we die and we get thrown out like a piece of shit. I need to put that in my will. I wish to be thrown out like a piece of shit.
On November 07 2016 06:05 Loco wrote:
“Once I ventured the guess that men worked in response to a vague inner urge for self-expression. But that was probably a shaky theory, for some men who work the hardest have nothing to express. A hypothesis with rather more plausibility in it now suggests itself. It is that men work simply in order to escape the depressing agony of contemplating life – that their work, like their play, is a mumbo-jumbo that serves them by permitting them to escape from reality. Both work and play, ordinarily, are illusions. Neither serves any solid or permanent purpose. But life, stripped of such illusions, instantly becomes unbearable. Man cannot sit still, contemplating his destiny in this world, without going frantic. So he invents ways to take his mind off the horror. He works. He plays. He accumulates the preposterous nothing called property. He strives for the coy eyewink called fame. He founds a family, and spends his curse over others. All the while the thing that moves him is simply the yearning to lose himself, to forget himself, to escape the tragic-comedy that is himself. Life, fundamentally, is not worth living. So he confects artificialities to make it so. So he erects a gaudy structure to conceal the fact that it is not so.”
-- H.L. Mencken
HEAVY HITTER!!!
H.L. nails it.
I do not want to commit suicide though. The horrors the absurdities are not too much to bear. Perhaps the banalities and the mundanities are? No, I can always get some money together and go skiing, watch existential film, grab a meal/coffee with friends, GIVE ME TRANSCENDENCE! I WANT TRANSCENDENCE! AD INFINITUM!
Isn't all this seeking, this chasing, this work and this play meanings?
Artificial is just man made. Of course, man has to make his meanings. There is no God or gods. Of course, they are artificial. I am hoping for a structure that is not gaudy but even if it is gaudy I would prefer that to death. Anyone who does not what keeps you living?
A few thoughts:
A person who believes life isn't worth living doesn't necessarily prescribe or pursue suicide. Logic doesn't have power over biology like that. It's one thing to make observations about the state of living and it's another to seek practical ways to live less miserably. I have no problem reconciling both.
Transcendence is glorified escapism. And it typically doesn't happen when you seek it out, it happens when you've fully given up seeking it, or when you're intoxicated, but that leads to a vicious cycle.
Yes, the seeking and chasing is meaningful. We are all condemned to meaning, as Merleau-Ponty rightfully points out. We're condemned to manufacture meaning and find a way to see ourselves like the hero in a story, with challenges ahead of himself, some places to go, things to accomplish. Often with a legacy to leave behind, for the most narcissistic of us all. If we could ask a hamster running in its wheel in a cage, 'why are you running all the time?', he would probably also tell us these things, "I am going somewhere. I am improving myself." It's life. Biology has needs and carries us forward, while the mind rationalizes them and tries to ennoble them. But the need for some great meaning is never met -- unless we lie to ourselves like the religious do. Who is better off? No doubt the self-deceived person is. Well, it can be done without religion, certainly. You just have to find convincing enough illusions and become a pragmatist like Peterson. He's certainly right when he says that there are always things to fix and that focusing on them makes our lives meaningful. These things are not illusory, but the idea that we can affect them often times is. But hey, whatever works is what most people care about. Whatever gets you to see another day without wanting to hang yourself is probably good. Life is not that interesting without illusions.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On November 08 2016 05:05 RiKD wrote:
I hate the fact that I left the house today and the meeting was shit and everyone is talking about voting... Horrible! That is NOT what I meant to paint. I told everyone to FUCK OFF! I am eating pizza and watching a movie by myself. I am antisocial because much of society sucks. No I do not want to talk about voting or the Monday Night Football game. I want to talk about how we are canvases and we can experiment around and that we die and we get thrown out like a piece of shit. I need to put that in my will. I wish to be thrown out like a piece of shit.
Please watch the movie "Captain Fantastic" (2016).
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On November 07 2016 06:05 Loco wrote:
“Once I ventured the guess that men worked in response to a vague inner urge for self-expression. But that was probably a shaky theory, for some men who work the hardest have nothing to express. A hypothesis with rather more plausibility in it now suggests itself. It is that men work simply in order to escape the depressing agony of contemplating life – that their work, like their play, is a mumbo-jumbo that serves them by permitting them to escape from reality. Both work and play, ordinarily, are illusions. Neither serves any solid or permanent purpose. But life, stripped of such illusions, instantly becomes unbearable. Man cannot sit still, contemplating his destiny in this world, without going frantic. So he invents ways to take his mind off the horror. He works. He plays. He accumulates the preposterous nothing called property. He strives for the coy eyewink called fame. He founds a family, and spends his curse over others. All the while the thing that moves him is simply the yearning to lose himself, to forget himself, to escape the tragic-comedy that is himself. Life, fundamentally, is not worth living. So he confects artificialities to make it so. So he erects a gaudy structure to conceal the fact that it is not so.”
-- H.L. Mencken
HEAVY HITTER!!!
H.L. nails it.
I do not want to commit suicide though. The horrors the absurdities are not too much to bear. Perhaps the banalities and the mundanities are? No, I can always get some money together and go skiing, watch existential film, grab a meal/coffee with friends, GIVE ME TRANSCENDENCE! I WANT TRANSCENDENCE! AD INFINITUM!
Isn't all this seeking, this chasing, this work and this play meanings?
Artificial is just man made. Of course, man has to make his meanings. There is no God or gods. Of course, they are artificial. I am hoping for a structure that is not gaudy but even if it is gaudy I would prefer that to death. Anyone who does not what keeps you living?
A few thoughts:
A person who believes life isn't worth living doesn't necessarily prescribe or pursue suicide. Logic doesn't have power over biology like that. It's one thing to make observations about the state of living and it's another to seek practical ways to live less miserably. I have no problem reconciling both.
Transcendence is glorified escapism. And it typically doesn't happen when you seek it out, it happens when you've fully given up seeking it, or when you're intoxicated, but that leads to a vicious cycle.
Yes, the seeking and chasing is meaningful. We are all condemned to meaning, as Merleau-Ponty rightfully points out. We're condemned to manufacture meaning and find a way to see ourselves like the hero in a story, with challenges ahead of himself, some places to go, things to accomplish. Often with a legacy to leave behind, for the most narcissistic of us all. If we could ask a hamster running in its wheel in a cage, 'why are you running all the time?', he would probably also tell us these things, "I am going somewhere. I am improving myself." It's life. Biology has needs and carries us forward, while the mind rationalizes them and tries to ennoble them. But the need for some great meaning is never met -- unless we lie to ourselves like the religious do. Who is better off? No doubt the self-deceived person is. Well, it can be done without religion, certainly. You just have to find convincing enough illusions and become a pragmatist like Peterson. He's certainly right when he says that there are always things to fix and that focusing on them makes our lives meaningful. These things are not illusory, but the idea that we can affect them often times is. But hey, whatever works is what most people care about. Whatever gets you to see another day without wanting to hang yourself is probably good. Life is not that interesting without illusions.
Do you remember that guy that wrote that book about shitting and wanting to fuck our moms?
What is the meaning of life?
Drinking, eating, shitting, wanting to fuck our moms. But I like black women? Novelty, there you go. Have fun!
I think everything one does or sees has meaning. If you are doing something, then it automatically has meaning in that moment, in that context. If you're pondering the "meaning of meaning" than in that very moment, pondering the meaning of meaning is what has meaning to you. If at any moment you are watching a movie, then that is what has meaning in your life at that very moment. Does meaning have to be grandeur for it to actually be "meaning"? After all, meaning 'means' just that - something that 'means' something, it exists and conveys a value, no matter how small or big (the size doesn't make a difference). Everything that exists has meaning through the sole fact of it actually existing - the meaning might be different to different observers, but it will be there, always. When I hear people saying that "nothing has meaning" and then trying to frame it as a pragmatic observation, I always feel confused. I mean if you believe nothing has "meaning", then what's the meaning behind you even saying that? I guess the act of sharing it had meaning to you, in that moment when you wanted to say it. So you must believe in meaning, after all.
The cool part is that we as concious beings can observe many different kinds of meanings. I think that's pretty freakin' cool.
United States. Nov 06 2016 23:27. Posts 8533
