New card cheating at private games

https://www.elie.net/blog/security/fu...osing-high-end-poker-cheating-devices

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12769819

Chinese smartphones modified to cheat with marked decks, used across the world in private games

just insane. amazing

i think this would be too tough to pull off in casino, at least a good casino, with the constant introduction of new / replacement decks, cant keep phone on table (in my experience) and what not.

still, this is just nuts awesome (tech wise) and scary, actual game wise

So what are the best ways to protect ourselves?

In any major casino for non-nosebleed stakes I think the risk is realllly low

but for private games or games run in a smaller private card room, not overseen by a publicly listed company, the risk is much higher. I think this information being publicly available now actually makes the risk even higher since a lot of would-be cheats just didn't know about it in the past.

I personally play in such games sometimes (private or smaller non-casino card rooms in Asia) so I'll be on the lookout. Some things that come to mind:

- any player with a device they regularly keep on the table, especially when it consistently has a similar orientation (it's not just cell phones, watch the video inside the first link in OP, the camera can be fit into various devices)
- any player who is very specific about which deck they play with, basically anyone who asks for a deck change deserves an extra look now (worth noting a private card room that has this setup properly or has an employee who's conspiring could have every deck in the place marked)
- some basic profiling - players who speak chinese or who are connected with people who do, deserve more attention

i don't think there's any great countermeasures for private games, it's just a risk premium you pay for access to generally juicier games. there's plenty of other (probably more likely) ways you can be cheated in those games anyway.

lower-tech versions of this have existed for a while http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wo...frared-contact-lenses-jailed/2878239/

On October 29 2016 18:35 Smuft wrote: I personally play in such games sometimes (private or smaller non-casino card rooms in Asia) so I'll be on the lookout. Some things that come to mind: - any player with a device they regularly keep on the table, especially when it consistently has a similar orientation (it's not just cell phones, watch the video inside the first link in OP, the camera can be fit into various devices) - any player who is very specific about which deck they play with, basically anyone who asks for a deck change deserves an extra look now (worth noting a private card room that has this setup properly or has an employee who's conspiring could have every deck in the place marked) - some basic profiling - players who speak chinese or who are connected with people who do, deserve more attention

there are sneakier ways to get the same effect without any device on the table and they'll continue to get harder and harder to figure out. that said, the actual method involves marked cards with IR ink which isnt at all flexible so all you need to do is spend a few dollar on an IR light/dectector and bring it to games and youll be fine. obviously exercise common sense in live games so you arent mistaken for the cheater when you have IR gear.

If the house is on the cheat theres virtually no way for you to know, if you are going to play in homegames you probably should have a rigurous stop loss and be aware of weird play like if some fish makes ridiculous plays and wins at showdown all the time

On October 29 2016 21:43 PoorUser wrote: Show nested quote + On October 29 2016 18:35 Smuft wrote: I personally play in such games sometimes (private or smaller non-casino card rooms in Asia) so I'll be on the lookout. Some things that come to mind: - any player with a device they regularly keep on the table, especially when it consistently has a similar orientation (it's not just cell phones, watch the video inside the first link in OP, the camera can be fit into various devices) - any player who is very specific about which deck they play with, basically anyone who asks for a deck change deserves an extra look now (worth noting a private card room that has this setup properly or has an employee who's conspiring could have every deck in the place marked) - some basic profiling - players who speak chinese or who are connected with people who do, deserve more attention there are sneakier ways to get the same effect without any device on the table and they'll continue to get harder and harder to figure out. that said, the actual method involves marked cards with IR ink which isnt at all flexible so all you need to do is spend a few dollar on an IR light/dectector and bring it to games and youll be fine. obviously exercise common sense in live games so you arent mistaken for the cheater when you have IR gear.

do you mean an IR detector to look at the cards themselves? If we had something like that to look at the cards that'd be good

but I assume given the level of sophistication with the devices themselves, you could just turn off the IR camera if someone wants to test your device

he was saying bring an IR device to check the cards for markings

And people thought China only produced counterfeits..

On October 29 2016 21:43 PoorUser wrote: Show nested quote + On October 29 2016 18:35 Smuft wrote: I personally play in such games sometimes (private or smaller non-casino card rooms in Asia) so I'll be on the lookout. Some things that come to mind: - any player with a device they regularly keep on the table, especially when it consistently has a similar orientation (it's not just cell phones, watch the video inside the first link in OP, the camera can be fit into various devices) - any player who is very specific about which deck they play with, basically anyone who asks for a deck change deserves an extra look now (worth noting a private card room that has this setup properly or has an employee who's conspiring could have every deck in the place marked) - some basic profiling - players who speak chinese or who are connected with people who do, deserve more attention there are sneakier ways to get the same effect without any device on the table and they'll continue to get harder and harder to figure out. that said, the actual method involves marked cards with IR ink which isnt at all flexible so all you need to do is spend a few dollar on an IR light/dectector and bring it to games and youll be fine. obviously exercise common sense in live games so you arent mistaken for the cheater when you have IR gear.

Not saying you're wrong, I just find the way you casually speak of bringing an infrared light/detector to a poker game amusing.