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Pride issues

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jgallegos_23   United States. Nov 06 2015 17:59. Posts 3

Hey, This dose not happen all the time, but enough that I feel it is a serious leak in my game. So ill just get right to it.

I find myself playing very well, making almost text book plays against various types of opponents. I will get a player heads up most of the time someone I know I can outplay w/ anything. Then that player shows slight aggression. At this point I still feel like I can steal the pot from them. They continue. Most of the time here I figure out I am beat and make the lay down. Here is where I get into trouble, at some point during the hand my pride takes over and I refuse/ can't see that I need to lay down the hand. And I keep going and basically give away my stack now to villains value bet. Some time I am able to stop the bleeding there and re focus but most of the time I get tilted @ this point and just become that guy that we all love.

Has anyone had this issue and conquered it or in the process of conquering it? Any advice would be helpful, and appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

J.

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dnagardi   Hungary. Nov 06 2015 18:18. Posts 1776

u cannot be a winning player like that. fight through that shit


traxamillion   United States. Nov 06 2015 22:21. Posts 10468

sounds like fish tilt 101


4TM   United States. Nov 06 2015 23:52. Posts 712

It's a mindset thing. You care more about looking good, than making the best play. I had this problem for a while and it came down to my insecurities. I needed validation that I was good because I wasn't confident in my game. It sounds ridiculous but this held me back for a long time.

Work hard on your game away from the table and remember why we play.


Santafairy   Korea (South). Nov 07 2015 00:22. Posts 2224

i have the same problem in chess, i'm actually a world class chess player, but when i pay nakamura $10 for a blitz game and he starts threatening my king, my pride takes over and i sacrifice all my pieces even though i know i'm the better player, so even though i end up losing the game i know i'm the better player because i can beat him straight up and one day i finally will

It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen 

traxamillion   United States. Nov 07 2015 00:53. Posts 10468

seriously santafairly? are u really that good? GM?


Santafairy   Korea (South). Nov 07 2015 01:25. Posts 2224

oh absolutely, thanks for asking i love talking about my chess career. i'm definitely IM level, would be like a 2700 rating at least, not necessarily top 100 in the world or anything. it's hard to get the GM title because you have to win enough norms, i just don't put in the effort or go to tournaments or win games but if i just glance at a chessboard i instantly know how many squares are on it and stuff. i'm a very intuitive/natural type of player like capablanca, just too busy to fix this leak i have of losing and grind up the levels so i never went pro

It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen 

K40Cheddar   United States. Nov 07 2015 03:04. Posts 2202


  On November 06 2015 23:22 Santafairy wrote:
i have the same problem in chess, i'm actually a world class chess player, but when i pay nakamura $10 for a blitz game and he starts threatening my king, my pride takes over and i sacrifice all my pieces even though i know i'm the better player, so even though i end up losing the game i know i'm the better player because i can beat him straight up and one day i finally will



da fuq good luck beating naka in blitz lol

GG 

hiems   United States. Nov 07 2015 03:20. Posts 2979

I'll take money line on Nakamura.

I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img] 

PuertoRican   United States. Nov 07 2015 03:43. Posts 13029

Rekrul is a newb 

KrappyKonnect   Canada. Nov 07 2015 15:10. Posts 1127

lol first thing I thought of was Pulp Fiction.


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Nov 07 2015 16:26. Posts 9634

Had the same problem, as 4TM stated above its about your own insecurities. The main problem about those insecurities is that you think you have to prove to yourself that you're better than those insecurities and thus you fall into the ego trap and it goes in an infinite circle. You don't have to prove shit. The thing that helped me the most is to rationalize every move and never act spontaneous, that way you don't leave room for your instincts to act, you can still rely on your instincts, but after you've rationalized them rather than instantly. Doesn't matter if its a 5bb or 500bb pot.

I still fall into that sometimes, but I solve it by alt+f4ing the software and taking a break. We have no room for emotions to take control at any point. Especially destructive ones. The root of that is fear, we initial reaction to most people against fear is to fight it. What works much better is to take it in and let it through so you can release it.

 Last edit: 07/11/2015 16:29

Jelle   Belgium. Nov 07 2015 17:59. Posts 3476

jgallegos_23 u have to be more honest in your evaluation of who has the edge in a match. It sounds like you just bomb in stacks every time it's your turn to act. If it works, you congratulate yourself on outplaying your opponent. If it doesn't work, you say that it was your pride (aka "that didn't count"


How would you play against someone who just continues the aggression endlessly? e.g. the type of guy who sees u fold to 20 cbets in a row but if you checkraise his cbet the 21st time he will 3bet the flop judicously assuming u were due to make a move. Are you going to float flops or c/R light against that guy? No, it is actually correct to give up a lot of small pots against such a person.

This is what your opponents are thinking against u and when u give them ur stack when they finally resist (throwing scissors against their rock if u will) u basically justify their play and vindicate them. If you can simply convince them that endless aggression is coming up (and then dissappoint them when they finally catch and give them a small pot) then u've outplayed them.

Conversely, if your opponents are thinking "this guy is trying to look like a badass, but it's only a ruse and he will show his true nit colours when I fight back" u need to dissappoint them and reply with even more aggression

outplaying =/= aggression/bluffing

u need to stop taking pride in aggroing/bluffing people and start taking pride in outplaying them instead. Sometimes that is the same thing but often not.

GroT 

Santafairy   Korea (South). Nov 08 2015 09:16. Posts 2224


  On November 07 2015 02:04 K40Cheddar wrote:
Show nested quote +



da fuq good luck beating naka in blitz lol

his days are numbered though, the moment my account gets unbanned for allegedly telling an 11 year old dutch boy to fuck off, i'm taking nakamura down

It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen 

Jelle   Belgium. Nov 08 2015 13:59. Posts 3476

lol Santafairy A+ posts

GroT 

Rapoza   Brasil. Nov 09 2015 04:22. Posts 1612

--- Nuked ---

Pouncer Style 4 the win 

fira   United States. Nov 09 2015 16:30. Posts 6345

why do you say that it's pride causing u to make these mistakes? i guess your thought process is something like "this guy is a newb, i should win every hand"... i think that too sometimes, basically the worse my opponent is the more it tilts me when i dont win lol


jgallegos_23   United States. Nov 10 2015 20:38. Posts 3

All the advice and comment are well taken and thank you all for taking the time to discuss this with me. To be honest with all of you being honest with myself about it and then putting it out there (admitting I have a problem) has been huge for me to come to term with it and move forward. For anyone else who is currently having issues with this; I also contacted Jared Tindler about this (The Mental Game of Poker Author if you are un aware of him). Here is what he wrote back:

Hi J.

It sounds like this is a Revenge Tilt issue that may also be connected to a confidence problem. I would suggest checking out those sections of the book, along with Chapter 4, so you know how to apply the strategy to whatever problems you find in those sections.

All the best,
Jared

I welcome any other suggestions and comments about this and again thank all of you for taking the time to comment on this issues.

Thanks all

J.



ClouD87   Italy. Nov 10 2015 22:49. Posts 524

He's right. You want to prove your superiority over someone by doing something irrational and counterproductive. It makes you lose money but takes you on an emotional rollercoaster that makes you feel good intermittently and at the same time makes you believe you are better than what you really are. When you are performing a task you need to detach yourself from judgement and expectation, which will yield the best result you can achieve with your level of competence.

 Last edit: 10/11/2015 22:50

Santafairy   Korea (South). Nov 11 2015 00:23. Posts 2224

wow this has been really eye opening i'll definitely be purchasing that book then maybe it can help me beat nakamura too

It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen 

 
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