UFC 192: Cormier vs. Gustafsson

On October 04 2015 19:31 traxamillion wrote: Rumble will have the belt; especially if he can avoid Cormier. Rumble gonna cake Jones

He does probably have a better shot at beating Jones than DC. I truly believe DC's chin finally may have cracked in his bout with Gus when he ate that knee. He had never even really been hurt before that. Things change when people that are 36 with amazing chins finally get ko/tko'd - which Cormier essentially did but was savvy and tough enough to grind it out. I think if the same Jones comes back he finishes him.

But I wouldn't favor Rumble or anything, I'd throw a small bet on him at around +350 or better vs a returning Jones. But regardless, Jones will finish DC next time IMO.

I'm also curious to see how Alan Jouban holds up in future wars. Without his amazing chin he becomes an average fighter and Tumenov may have cracked his chin permanently, only time will tell - doubt it cuz he's still young but its something to look out for.

Yair Rodriguez is a special fighter. He threw a bunch of brand new techniques effectively. His cardio maybe be an issue based on his style, as well as his defensive wrestling and chin being untested to this point.

Still, I truly believe the undercard/main card has a whole host of people who will fight for the belt:

Sage Northcutt at some point
Sergio Pettis MAYBE if he's lucky but he can beat a lot of people
Albert Tumenov
Yair Rodriguez
Ruslan Magomedov MAYBE if he's lucky (really doubt that one though)
Juliana Pena - ABSOLUTE TRASH as I said before the fight but they want to feed Rousey easy opponents and keep her away from Nunez who could quite possibly KO her

I will be looking to fade Adriano Martins hard in his next fight if the opponent is proper - which I do think he will be. I actually wouldn't mind them throwing Sage Northcutt into deep waters right away with him. He looked old, slow, smaller, and was getting outstruck prior to the KO - which was very nice but lets be honest, Mackachev just made a beginner mistake and learned the hard way that he's not invincible.

I'm not really convinced like others are that Rumble could give Jones problems. Which is a little depressing since that means there'd be no one left. Don't think Rumble can stop Jones from getting into the clinch. Dumped to the floor after that and a few of those nasty elbows will bring out the somewhat questionable heart Rumble has.

Looking forward to seeing a lot more of Northcutt and Tumenov. Tumenov looked more than ready for a top ten opponent in his next fight. Ridiculously fluid

Jones will wipe the floor with Rumble. Due to his power he is live dog against anyone though.

Also I can't really see Jones finishing DC. He has not finished anyone in some time and Cormier is tough. That knee was pretty hard and he ate a clean left hook behind it and was able to recover very good. JJ is not known for his power and I don't see him submitting DC.

I still feel Gus is the hardest match up for Jones in this division. I hope he makes his way up again and we can see this rematch.

I think DC makes a huge mistake in not wrestling more.

He said post fight he wanted to prove he can strike but he didn't really prove that - he wrestled fucked gustafsson 1st round and got half his life bar down and second round and on he is like "now i prove my superior striking skills" and goes on to have a pretty close fight almost getting knocked out.

Jones has faced many KO artists, and he absolutely destroyed them without even looking in danger at any point

On October 05 2015 20:53 CamilaPunt wrote: I think DC makes a huge mistake in not wrestling more. He said post fight he wanted to prove he can strike but he didn't really prove that - he wrestled fucked gustafsson 1st round and got half his life bar down and second round and on he is like "now i prove my superior striking skills" and goes on to have a pretty close fight almost getting knocked out.

I'm quite sure if he thought he had it in the tank to wrestle more... he would have. Picking up a 225 pound dude and flipping him over only for him to get right back up is cool, but is actually a tremendous waste of energy if your not punishing him on the ground, which DC didn't and probably couldn't. How many guys does Gustaffson have to counter-wrestle, punish for takedowns with knees to the body, takedown himself, etc etc before people will give him his credit in the grappling department. I HIGHLY doubt he said "now I have to prove my superior striking skills". More like "fuck this guy is hard to get a hold of and even when I do it takes me way to much energy to get him down".

Gus is Elite. DC is even better, fought his best and won. Good fight.

If someone displays terrible fight IQ I'm all for some good commentary on strategy.... but I'm not with you here.

DC doesn't use GnP in the traditional sense, he usually just takes a guy down and controls their movement to get them off balance and then continues to hit them; this was partially covered in the Jones vs. Cormier thread.

Moreover, as we all know, Gustafsson has sick TDD and above average TDs himself. Once Cormier flipped Gus over and couldn't control him on the ground as well as he thought he could, he probably gave up on wrestling to save energy. That being said, after Gus got flipped, Gus adjusted his movement and kept circling out as fast as possible, which looked like he was running, but he was actually jogging away from the cage and placing himself right in the center of the cage.

Anyway, I still stand by my original statement that while their fight was good, they both didn't look their best. Both gassed out much quicker than they did in their fight against Jon Jones, which made the rest of their game look weak.

I'd like to see Gustafsson versus OSP next, that way Gus can get a win under his belt against a Top 10 fighter and rebuild his confidence and his record. Both guys are coming off of a loss. The only other guy in the Top 10 that he hasn't fought yet and/or is not already booked for a fight is Rampage, and his UFC contract is still in limbo due to the issue with Bellator that he's still dealing with in court.

On October 06 2015 23:55 PuertoRican wrote: DC doesn't use GnP in the traditional sense, he usually just takes a guy down and controls their movement to get them off balance and then continues to hit them; this was partially covered in the Jones vs. Cormier thread. Moreover, as we all know, Gustafsson has sick TDD and above average TDs himself. Once Cormier flipped Gus over and couldn't control him on the ground as well as he thought he could, he probably gave up on wrestling to save energy. That being said, after Gus got flipped, Gus adjusted his movement and kept circling out as fast as possible, which looked like he was running, but he was actually jogging away from the cage and placing himself right in the center of the cage. Anyway, I still stand by my original statement that while their fight was good, they both didn't look their best. Both gassed out much quicker than they did in their fight against Jon Jones, which made the rest of their game look weak. I'd like to see Gustafsson versus OSP next, that way Gus can get a win under his belt against a Top 10 fighter and rebuild his confidence and his record. Both guys are coming off of a loss. The only other guy in the Top 10 that he hasn't fought yet and/or is not already booked for a fight is Rampage, and his UFC contract is still in limbo due to the issue with Bellator that he's still dealing with in court.

+1 on all accounts except I wouldn't agree on the Gus front, I thought he looked as good as ever. When I say DC fought his best fight, I just meant given that while he did look like he was starting to age a bit, he did enough to win over a damn tough matchup. I especially agree wth your statement about Gus's movement. The 'he was running' shit is non-sense. He was re-setting intelligently on the outside in space, just as you said Rican, where he had the best chance. As soon as he re-set he re-engaged. I've seen people get in other people's grills and and just stand there staring, fighting a lot less. The fact that the optics of his 'running' affected people's scorecards just shows how subjective and up for idiocy that MMA judging is unfortunately.

48-47 DC, 49-46 cards are just plain wrong. Gus won 2 & 3. I actually think 48-47 Gus is a better scorecard (leaving aside that the wrong guy wins) than 49-46 DC because you could easily have given Gus rd 4 IMO (where he outstruck a sloppy aggressive DC via Fightmetric), but how the fuck could you not give him 3 where he nearly finished the God Damn fight. That is just people's pre-fight pick bias's creeping in for sure.

And as for Jones, I will stick by what I have always said. He is unarguably the best fighter in the sport on paper but I don't believe he is actually the best P4P fighter in the world. Cormier, the #2 fighter in a shallow division is a dream matchup for him style wise. You really think Jon Jones will have his belt WRESTLED away from him? No, Jon Jones has is an incredible chin, but he does also get hit a lot when he faces a good long striker with decent defensive wrestling - see Machida, Gus, DC, . If Johnson found his range, I don't think any chin can stamp up to what he throws if he lands clean. I don't think he would, and I do think he would gas and lose in most realities, but he is more live than any other fighter at LHW vs Jones, plain and simple, and Jon Jones is by no means invincible. Someone that people THINK is invincible coming off a year+ layoff and still by what I can tell doing the dirty would be a dream dog opportunity if he were to fight a revampled grappling centric Rumble. Fortunately for Jones, Cormier won and Cormier's best days are indeed behind him, this was his pinnacle, and Jones will crush him if they fight. Of that I am nearly sure.

I actually thought Gus won rounds 2/3/4. Sad for him but I like DC a lot as well and Gus is still young. Jones will beat DC handily again I'm afraid.

Jones may have been banging coke the last year and come out shitty as fuck like Cain did. Never liked Jones and think he will lose his comeback fight

On October 06 2015 09:13 Baalim wrote: Jones has faced many KO artists, and he absolutely destroyed them without even looking in danger at any point

None of them even close to as good at it as AJ though. Honestly the only reason he didn't KO DC is DC has a fucking crazy chin.

I mean the dude KO'D Gus and nearly KO'D DC. Only thing that saved DC was a great chin. And both those guys gave Jones a hell of a fight.

Wonder how AJ will look with the new testing, as he's certainly juiced to max.

On October 07 2015 03:32 soberstone wrote: 48-47 DC, 49-46 cards are just plain wrong. Gus won 2 & 3. I actually think 48-47 Gus is a better scorecard (leaving aside that the wrong guy wins) than 49-46 DC because you could easily have given Gus rd 4 IMO (where he outstruck a sloppy aggressive DC via Fightmetric), but how the fuck could you not give him 3 where he nearly finished the God Damn fight. That is just people's pre-fight pick bias's creeping in for sure.

Why would Gus be given the third round because of one great shot followed up by one more good shot when he did almost nothing of significance for the other 4 minutes and 45 seconds. Has nothing to do with pre-fight pick bias. I'd rather have given Gus the 4th round instead of the 3rd. Used to happen in boxing all the time which is what I first started watching where there'd be mass outrage over a round just like that. Becomes a bit subjective on what a person/judge values more. It doesn't become absolute because you think those 15 seconds outweigh the rest of the round. Maybe if it was more of an extended sequence.

Not saying I would say someone has no merit for wanting to give that round to Gus. But it doesn't work the other way around either. One of those fights where I thought DC won 4-1 but I could see a lot of 3-2 DC scores and wouldn't have been shocked if it was Gus 3-2.

On October 07 2015 23:07 Stim_Abuser wrote: Show nested quote + On October 06 2015 09:13 Baalim wrote: Jones has faced many KO artists, and he absolutely destroyed them without even looking in danger at any point None of them even close to as good at it as AJ though. Honestly the only reason he didn't KO DC is DC has a fucking crazy chin. I mean the dude KO'D Gus and nearly KO'D DC. Only thing that saved DC was a great chin. And both those guys gave Jones a hell of a fight. Wonder how AJ will look with the new testing, as he's certainly juiced to max.

Matyushenko, prime Shogun, Rampage, prime Machida, TRT Belfort, Gustaffson, Texeira.


In what universe is AJ a better striker than all of those?

Of all the best guys at 205 ( DC,Gus,AJ). I see Jones having the easiest fight against Rumble. He will dominate him and finish him inside 3 rounds. I am certain of that.

AJ matches up well with Gustaffson ( I will stick pick Gus in a rematch ), but Cormier and Jones will always smash him, even though he is a live dog due to his knockout power.

On October 08 2015 22:13 northsails wrote: Of all the best guys at 205 ( DC,Gus,AJ). I see Jones having the easiest fight against Rumble. He will dominate him and finish him inside 3 rounds. I am certain of that. AJ matches up well with Gustaffson ( I will stick pick Gus in a rematch ), but Cormier and Jones will always smash him, even though he is a live dog due to his knockout power.

you said it yourself, AJ is a live dog against Jones. I think Cormier isn't. Cormier is drawing dead against Jones.

We aren't saying AJ is an hard fight for Jones, he isn't. But AJ is at least a threat.

Well, I don't think Cormier is drawing dead against Jones. He arguably won 2nd and 3rd rounds in their first fight. It is not like he has been blown away. Jones is coming off a 1 year lay off also.

He gassed due to the body shots he ate early in the fight and lost the last rounds, but if the odds are over +250 I will deffo throw some money on DC.

On October 07 2015 23:40 iakim322 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 07 2015 03:32 soberstone wrote: 48-47 DC, 49-46 cards are just plain wrong. Gus won 2 & 3. I actually think 48-47 Gus is a better scorecard (leaving aside that the wrong guy wins) than 49-46 DC because you could easily have given Gus rd 4 IMO (where he outstruck a sloppy aggressive DC via Fightmetric), but how the fuck could you not give him 3 where he nearly finished the God Damn fight. That is just people's pre-fight pick bias's creeping in for sure. Why would Gus be given the third round because of one great shot followed up by one more good shot when he did almost nothing of significance for the other 4 minutes and 45 seconds . Has nothing to do with pre-fight pick bias. I'd rather have given Gus the 4th round instead of the 3rd. Used to happen in boxing all the time which is what I first started watching where there'd be mass outrage over a round just like that. Becomes a bit subjective on what a person/judge values more. It doesn't become absolute because you think those 15 seconds outweigh the rest of the round. Maybe if it was more of an extended sequence.

uhhhh I don't remember any point of the fight past the 1st round where DC dominated 2 minutes straight, let alone 4:45. think you may need a re-watch. if a round is close but clear for 4 minutes and then 1 guy almost finishes the fight multiple times in a 20 second sequence, it's that guys round. it's not rocket science and it shouldn't be that subjective. if you can re-watch the 3rd round and honestly give it to DC, then we just have to agree to disagree, but until then I think you are just remembering very poorly.

On October 08 2015 06:38 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 07 2015 23:07 Stim_Abuser wrote:   On October 06 2015 09:13 Baalim wrote: Jones has faced many KO artists, and he absolutely destroyed them without even looking in danger at any point None of them even close to as good at it as AJ though. Honestly the only reason he didn't KO DC is DC has a fucking crazy chin. I mean the dude KO'D Gus and nearly KO'D DC. Only thing that saved DC was a great chin. And both those guys gave Jones a hell of a fight. Wonder how AJ will look with the new testing, as he's certainly juiced to max. Matyushenko, prime Shogun, Rampage, prime Machida, TRT Belfort, Gustaffson, Texeira. In what universe is AJ a better striker than all of those?

rumble by far hits harder than any of those guys ever did; if we are talking purely mass x acceleration of your head bouncing off his fist

On October 08 2015 06:38 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 07 2015 23:07 Stim_Abuser wrote:   On October 06 2015 09:13 Baalim wrote: Jones has faced many KO artists, and he absolutely destroyed them without even looking in danger at any point None of them even close to as good at it as AJ though. Honestly the only reason he didn't KO DC is DC has a fucking crazy chin. I mean the dude KO'D Gus and nearly KO'D DC. Only thing that saved DC was a great chin. And both those guys gave Jones a hell of a fight. Wonder how AJ will look with the new testing, as he's certainly juiced to max. Matyushenko, prime Shogun, Rampage, prime Machida, TRT Belfort, Gustaffson, Texeira. In what universe is AJ a better striker than all of those?

Only in the the universe we are living in. Besides that, great point.

Johnson is a superior and more relevantly, more dangerous striker than every single other fighter on that list and its really not even all that close considering we are talking about who is 'live' vs JBJ. You aren't going to win a decision more than a few times out of a hundred vs the Jon Jones that fought DC (because yes, that version was far better than the one that fought Gus) unless you are far better than anyone on this list. Admittedly, he's just too good over 5 rounds to outpoint. You need to finish him - Belfort almost did it with an armbar, there's no reason AJ couldn't split his wig with a well timed counter in the pocket.

And BTW, Johnson is not juiced to the max necessarily - I'd be a fool to say he wasn't for sure - but his body has never morphed (besides when he did extreme weight cutting) - he's just a brick shithouse that hits and kicks harder than anyone else on the planet. Jones is actually the guy who has had some shaky testosterone levels if we are being honest.