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Greek crisis: Banks shut for a week

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Garfed   Malta. Jun 28 2015 22:43. Posts 4818

The crisis in Greece is reaching its final stage - after all the help from EU it looks like the money flow is going to finally get cut off.

Starting tomorrow, all greek banks and stock market shut for a week as capital controls imposed, and people are limited to withdraw only €60 per day.

After early trading opened up in Asia, EU pumelled down against $:


live updates:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/l...ncy-liquidity-referendum-bailout-live

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 Last edit: 28/06/2015 22:43

Highcard   Canada. Jun 28 2015 22:59. Posts 5428

I have no knowledge of how these things often pan out. Will be interesting to see

I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time 

devon06atX   Canada. Jun 28 2015 23:28. Posts 5458

Altho I generally follow geopolitical news quite closely, I really don't understand what's going on there. Basically Greece can't pay their debts? And their new political party is anti-austerity?

Lebowski, shed some light!

The nazi party still on the rise there too?


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Jun 28 2015 23:35. Posts 15162


  On June 28 2015 21:59 Highcard wrote:
I have no knowledge of how these things often pan out. Will be interesting to see


nobody knows
Like with Lehman "whatever, smallest large investment bank on wall street - let them fail, no big deal"
And it culminated in the huge cluster fuck that pretty much ended with this

93% Sure!  

mnj   United States. Jun 29 2015 00:26. Posts 3848

the way this forum talks about finance is pretty much how live poker players talk about poker


whamm!   Albania. Jun 29 2015 00:54. Posts 11625

Talking out of my ass (been watching this since I'm into trading now) Please correct me if im wrong here:

FED already plans measures to soften the impact of Grexit(Yellen's announcement of an impending rate hike in case). This was telegraphed years ago and I think they've finally decided it's safe to cut them off. Greece wants Russia to help it survive, in exchange for pipelines running through it as an alternative to Crimea,since nobody wants to help them anymore. I think the current admin of Greece wants to give the impression to their constituents that it can't be bullied by foreign creditors with the aid bailout being canceled if they dont take necessary measures imposed by foreign banks. Problem there is in the real world when you owe insitutions such as IMF and the world bank you're pretty much their bitch and all Greece have done is save their image from voters and seems pretty selfish imo.

All this talk about a global recession after Greece seems more like fuckers looking to bargain hunt and short huge from all the scared money that'll deflate the markets. I believe this won't have that much of an effect as the DOW closed green yesterday on a weekend. Where I live, markets seemed to be more scared with it's anticipation than the actual exit. Now they're looking at how the outflow of money will benefit the Asian markets (except China)

In before Digger suggests buttcoins is the answer

 Last edit: 29/06/2015 01:01

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Jun 29 2015 01:00. Posts 9634

cliffs on how this happened:
Taxes in Greece are absurdly low
Eventhough they are low, taxpayers dont pay them
Their social system pays waaaaaaaaaay too much, huge pensions and shit
Their pension age is 57

Thats not even something they cannot fix, they lack budget income and have huge expenses. Last proposal Cypras did was increasing certain taxes and possibly the pension age and EU told him to fuck off and that they dont want tax increases but budget costs cuts, which is obviously the only normal any adequate human being would want considering that even if they increase the taxes people still wont fucking pay them. Cypras however is a uber socialistic fuck that should be burned together with all of his proletariat brothers and didn't wanna cut pensions and shit so instead now they wont have money for anything. Way to go... Guess they deserve it considering they voted for him, but then again I don't beleive in voting


Pipeline project wont happen since my country told Russia to fuck off and so did Turkey so they can't really reach Greece anyways
Greece's administration just makes it look like they are getting bullied when in fact the EU, IMF and all of the negotiators just reached their breaking point after many many proposals. Greece was arrogant enough to ask for a release from the debt and im happy that the EU wasnt dumb enough to actually approve of that
Sadly a lot of people will get fucked cause the administration are braindead egoistic pieces of shit


edit: Also Defrag they are limited to 600-700eu per day per card from ATMs not 60 lawl :D problem is the banks cant keep up with money supply, considering there are queues at ATMs

 Last edit: 29/06/2015 01:13

dogmeat   Czech Republic. Jun 29 2015 02:35. Posts 6374

cheated their way to eurozone, rolled way out of their bankrolls and now well deserved ends finally here. albania-like living standards coming soon

also sic arrogance by their representatives, 5star trolling

ban baal 

Baalim   Mexico. Jun 29 2015 03:10. Posts 34246


  On June 29 2015 00:00 Spitfiree wrote:
problem is the banks cant keep up with money supply, considering there are queues at ATMs



Are you sure of this, it sounds like its simply a move to avoid panic withdrawals collapsing the banking system like the great depression in USA.

And this guys is why you dont keep your money in shitty unstable banks

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

mnj   United States. Jun 29 2015 04:40. Posts 3848


  On June 29 2015 02:10 Baalim wrote:
Show nested quote +



Are you sure of this, it sounds like its simply a move to avoid panic withdrawals collapsing the banking system like the great depression in USA.

And this guys is why you dont keep your money in shitty unstable banks


and this is why the US is light years ahead in terms of financial infrastructure/financial liquidity, and why we get the cheapest financing on national debt


lebowski   Greece. Jun 29 2015 04:42. Posts 9205

short comment on the cliffs from spitfiree:
It's almost all wrong, though I don't think he's to blame for not having the real picture, because there's been a lot of misinformation with malicious intent on the matter.
The crisis in Greece came up as a consequence from the global crisis in 2008. Widespread corruption, countless flaws in the greek system and existence of a huge black market made Greece more vulnerable to what happened next, which is prob too much to get into right now.

If we're going to focus on the flaws of how thing work in Greece though, the problem wasn't that taxes were too low (right now they really aren't low at all), it was that they were never collected (except from civil servants who obv didn't have a choice).
Pension system is definitely heavily flawed, but the increase in pension expenditure as a percentage of GDP is a result of the GDP declining faster than the pensions which makes it seem absurd while it in fact isn't.

Avg retirement age in Greece is almost the same with e.g Germany's ~64-65 years (retirement age right now is 67). From Eurostat's data on 2005 (before several consequent reforms) it was 61.9, while it was 61.8 for Germany
Avg pension is 882 euros
Pensions have already been reduced at about 50% throughout 2010-2014 memorandum measures and in a country with 50% young unemployment rate (and 25% overall) these pensions are what's barely keeping families from not searching trash cans to get by (which is actually really common in bigger cities atm)

People voted for Tsipras ( I didn't) because all the austerity experiments that the EU brought to Greece for 5 years failed miserably, the economy suffocated and unemployment and poverty went over the roof. They started voting for dudes that told them that this can't go on any more, it's not working. Syriza party was of course populistic in many regards (as every politician here post crisis tbh), but they were focusing on e.g. the fact that more than 40% of pensioners live below the poverty line and that the new austerity measures would continue to take away from the poorest and weakest. They focused on demanding a permanent and more socially just solution to the social reform and debt problem.

Don't agree with that view? Heres what the former IMF chief has to say: http://www.thetoc.gr/eng/politics/art...kahn-mea-culpa-for-handling-of-greece

Here's how Nobel prize winner Paul Krugman handles the badget cost cuts demanded by troika: " The supposed reason for the rejection of a tax-based response is that it will hurt growth. The obvious response is, are you kidding us? The people who utterly failed to see the damage austerity would do — see the chart, which compares the projections in the 2010 standby agreement with reality — are now lecturing others on growth? "
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/breaking-greece/?_r=0

Here's a take on the situation by J. Habermas: http://www.analyzegreece.gr/news/item...-why-angela-merkel-is-wrong-on-greece

Long story short, after 5 months of negotiations the EU institutions told Greece to accept even more austerity measures without any talk of debt relief or debt sustainability, right after the greek government had proposed measures that were greeted as a " move in the right direction " from several european politicians (while denounced as extreme by ALL political parties in Greece). They even demanded 23% VAT tax increase from 6% in what involves the country's only real industry: tourism.
This isn't a plan that wants a country to grow so that the debts will be repaid and it was frustratingly and irresponsibly enough given with a " game over " message: http://en.protothema.gr/tusk-game-over-tsipras-cutting-pensions-not-a-game/.
Then Tsipras did the referendum maneuver, which is a (seemingly?) YOLO type of move that probably relies on the notion that a grexit costs a lot to everyone and is essentially calling the EU institutions' all in as a bluff. I have no idea what's going to happen tbh, if it's indeed a bluff or not. Nobody actually knows how bad a grexit would be for Greece or the global economy but it's certain that grexit or not things are not looking good and Greece is fucked for years.

I'm too tired to get into the irrelevance of the pipeline project in all this mess.

If Europe doesn't like the socialists in Greece, wait until they see the national socialists that are expected to rise when SYRIZA falls...

Btw it's 60 euros a day maximum from all atms, not 600.

I wrote all this around 6 in the morning so I know it's prob not well worded or touching nearly enough on the subject but I am getting really sleepy

new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...Last edit: 29/06/2015 04:46

Stroggoz   New Zealand. Jun 29 2015 08:55. Posts 5289

What's happening in greece now happened in much of the third world during the 80's and 90's.

The rich nations lend out money to the poor nations at usurious rates through their international institutions of governance like the IMF, World Bank. Then when the third world nations can't pay it back, the rich nations tell them to follow horrible economic policies like the austerity ones you see in greece. (they used to be called structural adjustment programmes). This makes the poor nations debt slaves, and their economies become dependent on the more powerful nations, they are told to pursue their comparative advantage, which basically means they export all their raw materials to the rich nations. This is pretty similar to how the mafia operates when they lend money out to gambling addicts who own any sort of business.

The german government are the most grotesque hypocrites in this particular situation. A little study of history finds that Greece was forced to loan Adolf Hitler a large sum of money during WW2, which germany still hasn't fully paid back. Not to mention many greeks suffered horribly under hitlers governance. But the greeks have also exploited the 'dangers of hyperinflation' argument to push for austerity, while these austerity conditions empowered the nazi's in greece. Germany has often supported fascist regimes after WW2, for example they sold chemicals to Saddam Hussein during the Iraq-Iran war, not even Adolf Hitler used chemical warfare.

I havn't expected too much from SYRIZA, since it would be hard for a government to fight the troika, no matter which government got in, but its been exciting to follow this.

Also, as far as i'm aware the nazi's pretty much run the police force in greece, any greek able to confirm this?

One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beingsLast edit: 29/06/2015 08:59

lebowski   Greece. Jun 29 2015 09:47. Posts 9205

over 50% of the police votes for them, to what extent that affects their jobs I can't be sure but it'd be stupid to assume that it doesn't. Such incidents are more rare nowadays at least (or not heard of that much)

new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man... 

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Jun 29 2015 10:13. Posts 9634

Lawl if what you re saying is true then bulgarian media is deeply deeply manipulated to insane levels. I get that medias are usually biased, but then 80% of the info is complete misinformation


TalentedTom    Canada. Jun 29 2015 13:54. Posts 20070

Heard on the radio there is a 81$/day limit for individual bank withdraws. Banks only have ~0.5-2% of total deposits available for withdraw at any moment. This is considered safe, unless everyone wanted to withdraw all of their money at the same time, which is probably what is currently happening in Greece.

This is concerning news ;/ Maybe even front page news.

Any LP users from Greece?

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us and as we let our own lights shine we unconsciously give other people permision to do the sameLast edit: 29/06/2015 13:55

lebowski   Greece. Jun 29 2015 14:37. Posts 9205

banks are closed for this week and capital controls have been imposed, you can withdraw 60 euros a day from the atm if you a have a card issued in Greece, if you're a tourist this doesn't apply. People are indeed lining up to withdraw and the 60 euro limit plays some part on that too.

new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man... 

devon06atX   Canada. Jun 29 2015 15:48. Posts 5458

25% unemployment rate... jesus.. crime must be skyrocketing

Vice did a nice documentary regarding the nazi party in Greece - I think they're called the golden sun, or new sun or something along those lines? It's scary stuff..


dogmeat   Czech Republic. Jun 29 2015 17:05. Posts 6374


  On June 29 2015 14:48 devon06atX wrote:
25% unemployment rate... jesus.. crime must be skyrocketing

Vice did a nice documentary regarding the nazi party in Greece - I think they're called the golden sun, or new sun or something along those lines? It's scary stuff..

yes a bunch of nazi morons is scary, yet eu is run by marxists and mayoists, which is supposedly standard

facepalm

ban baal 

diggerflopboat   . Jun 29 2015 17:37. Posts 241


  On June 28 2015 22:28 devon06atX wrote:
Altho I generally follow geopolitical news quite closely, I really don't understand what's going on there. Basically Greece can't pay their debts? And their new political party is anti-austerity?

Lebowski, shed some light!

The nazi party still on the rise there too?

It is difficult to understand these situations because everyone has a different perspective. If you ask German government they might say things like (in an angry voice) "Greece would be wise to take our generous offers!!!"

If you ask Greek peoples they might suggest they won't put up with bully tactics any more.

What is truly happening is that the power of the Euro currency (and governing bodies) is only and perfectly related to the trust and cooperative agreements that back it. The euro group is saying "pay your debts", and greece can't pay their debts, and won't pay their debts...

The result is the realization by Greece, based on the fear the entire Euro will unravel, that they have the most bargaining power in the world right now.

Greece isn't trying to exit or make a deal, greece is just bargaining the shit out of the situation...meanwhile the euro can't bow to such demands since they are absurd from the Euro groups point of view. To give in to greece means to give into other nations, yet to facilitate the grexit might kill the lure of a euro.

My take is that I suspect this is the most powerful force in the cosmos. More energy is stored in this union than is released in splitting an atom, hence the gravitational force is enormous, yet something has to give...

 Last edit: 29/06/2015 17:39

lebowski   Greece. Jun 29 2015 18:32. Posts 9205


  On June 29 2015 16:05 dogmeat wrote:
Show nested quote +

yes a bunch of nazi morons is scary, yet eu is run by marxists and mayoists, which is supposedly standard

facepalm

EU run by marxists and maoists? Just because they tried to have a (partial and watered down) say on the policies/regulations of the country they got elected in? While they came in power because of the 5 year austerity programs that failed horribly, something that even former IMF chief admits? Bear in mind that the previous governments that simply accepted everything were also not taken seriously or into consideration by troika.
Meanwhile 10% Nazi party golden dawn is just a bunch of idiots? -_-

Just try to get a bit out of your shoes for a minute man, it's understandable to have a different opinion but at least don't be this certain when it's obvious that you have no real idea of what's going on

edit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-sachs/greeks-stay-alive_b_7603676.html
Is Jeffrey Sachs a maoist/marxist in your opinion?

new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man...Last edit: 29/06/2015 18:42

 
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