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LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Jun 09 2015 12:10. Posts 15163

So I'm in a spot on the river like this:

Submitted by : LemOn[5thF]

PokerStars Hand #136387734613: Holdem No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2015/06/07 16:27:29 CET [2015/06/07 10:27:29 ET]
Table Mitidika III 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: orbcrazyk ($25.22 in chips)
Seat 2: Jamma1086 ($24.40 in chips)
Seat 3: KingKush46 ($14.14 in chips)
Seat 4: DavidDorky ($25 in chips)
Seat 6: DoC.LemOn ($26.88 in chips)
KingKush46: posts small blind $0.10
DavidDorky: posts big blind $0.25
SlyKite: sits out

Holecards
Dealt to DoC.LemOn TsJs
DoC.LemOn: raises $0.50 to $0.75
orbcrazyk: calls $0.75
Jamma1086: folds
KingKush46: folds
DavidDorky: folds

Flop (Pot : $1.85)

   As2dQd
DoC.LemOn: bets $1.16
orbcrazyk: calls $1.16

Turn (Pot : $4.17)

   As2dQd8d
DoC.LemOn: bets $2.75
orbcrazyk: calls $2.75

River (Pot : $9.67)

   As2dQd8d7h
DoC.LemOn: bets $5.25
orbcrazyk:



I strongly believe this is a 3 barrel 100% vs anyone but calling stations
-This is the only 8 out+combo I have here 100% of the time that doesn't remove XXd hands that will call flop turn to fold river. I fold TJo pre, not sure if TJ without the backdoor is always a cbet, although it's reasonable, and the rest of my cbetting range is hands with the BDfd+flush blocker


These are my top2+
AdAh, AdAc, AhAc, QhQs, QhQc, QsQc, 8h8s, 8h8c, 8s8c, 2h2s, 2h2c, 2s2c, AdKd, AhQh, AcQc, AdJd, KdJd, AdTd, KdTd, JdTd, Ad9d, Td9d, Ad7d, Ad6d, 7d6d, Ad5d, Ad4d, Ad3d, AdQh, AdQs, AdQc, AhQs, AhQc, AcQh, AcQs

He shouldn't have nearly as many AXs when he flatted COvMP, no AA, some people 3bet QQ pre too, and 7d6d is borderline call or fold I assume for most people.

I basically look at my range here, and there isn't many great bluffing hands in my range really - I don't open KJo MP generally, AX KQ have some sd value so I can play them as a check on e.g. flops

And I have a lot more nut combos than he does


  On June 07 2015 15:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
It looks a lot like value, but most villains will probably make undisciplined calls anyway. It's good for balance though and you might get folds from Qx, especially Qxd.





  On June 07 2015 21:52 Spitfiree wrote:
Except im betting at least 70% river this river bet is bad imo




In theory if I play a balanced startegy my range is value heavy and it's hard to find bluff combos and I play my full range is to bet small with all of it against a good player so he has to face a tough decision with his bluff catchers


What I want to know is you how you think we should approach these spots vs the better NL50 regulars as default
- Do you just consider your range and bet with the same amount with whole of it accordingly as I did? (I'd bet the same amount with flushes. If he calls too light vs a bluff or vbet I'd re-adjust my ratios/sizings)
- Do you like spitfire's approach to bet big to represent a flush when you're bluffing to make his life really hard with anything but set+? How do you play when you actually have a flush in that case?
- Or flipmaster's approach - bet small to represent a value bet then re-adjust.


I think you can use any of these then re-adjust based on what you see, just curious what a default should be when multitabling/zooming at NL50 vs good regs

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93% Sure! Last edit: 09/06/2015 12:15

traxamillion   United States. Jun 09 2015 18:36. Posts 10468

No I use the balanced sizing I would use with both bluffs and flushes (or other value) 3 barreling is clearly fine here with your hand, the only problem I see is you feeling adamant you chose the optimal sizing.

(You also have to consider how he views your betsize. After you figure out what it SHOULD be then think about how villain will view this bet and adjust it if appropriate. For example your sizing here might texhnically be best but villain may incorrectly assume you vbet larger since he will view you as polarized here on this board prolly. So he makes a lighter Ax or even Qx call than he should)

It is also ok to have different bluff sizes in the same spot at different frequencies. For example betting pot with 70% of big flushes and then an appropriate % pot bluff to balance (you will have plenty of flop air to chose from). Then with the sizing you chose (half pot) you could bet the rest of the big flushes, your weaker value, and a wider range of bluffs than the pot size obviously. This is a way to possibly increase ev over one bet-size using a mixed strat. And if you are properly balanced it's not like villain can fold to the big sizing and just call the small sizing; he should be just as indifferent to calling either size of done right. Doubt anybody does it just right in fact but that's what we are striving for.

 Last edit: 09/06/2015 18:48

traxamillion   United States. Jun 09 2015 18:53. Posts 10468

You should really try some live games out too lemon where you don't even remotely have to think about these things to print money. I've mostly switched to live just for the easy $ and only force myself to play online to stay sharp.

I suspect I may just have a far healthier live poker option than you living in San francisco califonia as opposed to Eastern Europe


casinocasino   Canada. Jun 10 2015 03:45. Posts 3343

I would check fold the turn almost always


Trav94   Canada. Jun 10 2015 08:13. Posts 1785

+1 on the live games. 5nl on stars plays tougher then live 1/2 here

 Last edit: 10/06/2015 08:13

Smuft   Canada. Jun 10 2015 08:41. Posts 633


  On June 09 2015 11:10 LemOn[5thF] wrote:
What I want to know is you how you think we should approach these spots vs the better NL50 regulars as default


Don't bluff into nuts heavy range with bad blockers.

Assuming no flop/turn raising ranges from IP, his river range is AQ(9), flushes(~6), QQ(~1) and if he called the flop and turn with them JJd(2), TTd(2), and then MAYBE a couple non-flush combos of AJs/ATs?(~2)

Betting 5.25 into 9.47 you need to get a fold 35% of the time to break even

Given the ranges above villain has 16 calling hands and 6 potential folding hands so if he folded them all your bluff would work only 27% of the time

If you say he has all the non-flush combos of AJs/ATs(4) then this bluff gets a bit better and villain folds 33% of the time but still not enough

**note that JsTs blocks JdJs and TdTs other wise he'd have 2 more folding hands and this bluff gets a lot better


casinocasino   Canada. Jun 11 2015 02:03. Posts 3343

Just to answer your question. On this river you want to size really large, your representing a flush. 5.25 into 10 does not represent flush really well.


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Jun 11 2015 12:02. Posts 15163


  On June 11 2015 01:03 casinocasino wrote:
Just to answer your question. On this river you want to size really large, your representing a flush. 5.25 into 10 does not represent flush really well.


yeah basically question is if I should give the good regs at 50 credit for understanding that my range doesn't have many bluffs and fold sufficiently even with small sizing (and bet the same size with flushes), then re-adjust based on what they call.

Or Just keep doing what I do at NL25 where I just bet in accordance with what i rep and just bomb this to make it rly obvious for them I have the flush, because they be like "he bet small, I cawl all my Ax" if I don't

93% Sure! Last edit: 11/06/2015 12:02

traxamillion   United States. Jun 11 2015 16:33. Posts 10468


  On June 10 2015 02:45 casinocasino wrote:
I would check fold the turn almost always



You never Cbet ace high 2 tone (on flop) boards when the flush hits the turn? I could see why you want to with this hand obviously but in general with the rest of your range 3 streets is higher ev than bet/check/(bet)


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Jun 11 2015 17:16. Posts 15163


  On June 10 2015 02:45 casinocasino wrote:
I would check fold the turn almost always


Rly with the double gutter? :O
I did bet to 3 barrel tho I guess if you bet to cf it's reasonable to cf ?

93% Sure! Last edit: 11/06/2015 17:17

casinocasino   Canada. Jun 13 2015 19:12. Posts 3343

No, you block backdoor spades, you block KJ , KT, JT, all hands which would likely fold to a multi street bet, you block. I have enough hands to bluff here that I don't need to include the worst hand combinations IMO.

 Last edit: 13/06/2015 22:37

casinocasino   Canada. Jun 13 2015 22:51. Posts 3343


  On June 11 2015 11:02 LemOn[5thF] wrote:
Show nested quote +


yeah basically question is if I should give the good regs at 50 credit for understanding that my range doesn't have many bluffs and fold sufficiently even with small sizing (and bet the same size with flushes), then re-adjust based on what they call.

Or Just keep doing what I do at NL25 where I just bet in accordance with what i rep and just bomb this to make it rly obvious for them I have the flush, because they be like "he bet small, I cawl all my Ax" if I don't


Bet big with your big hands and with your bluffs that you get here with and you increase/decreasing your bluffing range based on how often your opponent hero calls on the river. If he never calls, you can widen your bluffing range to include TJss and whatever else you want.. But as a default I dont bet TJ on the turn.


traxamillion   United States. Jun 14 2015 09:14. Posts 10468

casino def right about the blockers, wasn't really thinking about that at first


 



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