Silk Road Founder Sentenced - Life Without Parole

People use drugs. He made a marketplace to help get rid of the violence.

When I think of a typical pot deal.
Step 1: Buy a bag from a Dealer (no violence)
Step 2: Dealer buys maybe 1lb from supplier. . Occasional violence.
Step 3: Supplier gets from their Supplier ( Real violence)

Ross's system, erased Step 2 and 3



The rating system worked much like eBay so it would be much safer buying coke from a 5 star trusted vendor rather than getting it in a back alley.
His system was superior to the traditional where you guy to a guys apartment, get cleared, watch guys out of their mind do lines of coke in front of you, maybe there are weapons around, the whole scene a bit edgy. A counterpoint would be to say that yes, it'd get rid of some of the street violence but the then the ease of buying could increase drug use and cause more total damage.

People are going to do drugs. We have to find a way to get bet to a more centered approach. The pendulum has swung too far in one way. I think we should start be decriminalizing pot federally and allow entrepreneurs to market it like alcohol.

As Chris said, there is a lot of disproportionate black arrests and that would ease relations.

Life in prison is far too long and clearly Judge Forrest wanted to set an example for future Dark Market kingpins. We've already learned that max punishments do not deter criminals. Death penalties don't reduce capital murders. The next silk roads are already happening.


(http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/05/daily-chart-13)

They're going to attempt to appeal ; and it'll be curious to see the public opinion on the sentencing.

You guys know there s difference between morals of the average individual and political morals rite ? :D Those two can't have a higher contrast

On May 30 2015 18:29 traxamillion wrote: The government may not explicitly endorse 12-step programs but through their actions they do. In my local county, drug offenders are court ordered to a 12-step rehab program called p-90. They embrace the steps, have them plastered on the wall, and if you get busted for drugs in this county (smaller possession type offenses) you are going. The government loves religious, abstinence based bullshit.

Indeed. Ok. Well, I like your post. I like this discussion. I like truth.

I completely agree with you here. Keep in mind I am not representing any 12 step program, I am just sharing my opinions and experiences.

Court ordered 12-step rehab programs are def hit and miss (mostly miss). The fact that it is called p-90 leads me to believe they advocate a 90 meetings in 90 days and require attendance slips to be signed. That goes against any literature on the subject. The problem is many doctors are ignorant and inadequate when it comes to addiction treatment. Government and political institutions are even worse.

One thing I would like to emphasize, however, is that by traditions the AA 12-step program is not religious. That is one of the major problems and stigmas associated with it. Many people wrongfully associate christianity with 12-step programs. Even in the city I am currently in which is a pretty good city for recovery there exist "christian" meetings and the standard is for meetings to end with the catholic lord's prayor. By the book, christian meetings violate the traditions of AA. A lord's prayor at the end of meetings if agreed upon by meeting members does not violate any traditions but in my opinion it is somewhat belligerent and intolerant and was and is a hurdle for many to recover. I abstain from participating in any christian/catholic prayors and it is not an issue.

12-step programs by the book are not religious programs. Any general program based in religion is violating traditions. (There is no issues with a religious basis for someone's individual program but that is not in any approved literature as THE program. Basically, THE program is growth along spiritual lines. Growth through religion falls under growth along spiritual lines but religion is not necessary to grow along spiritual lines.)

No offense RIKD because it seems to be helping you but in my opinion forcing the 12 steps on all addicts is complete bullshit. The 12steps are very dogmatic. All drug use is bad. Once an addict you are always an addict and have this lifelong disease to deal with. 12 concrete steps when the process is different for everybody. It helps people no doubt but it ain't for me.

I agree again. Forcing 12 steps on anyone is complete bullshit and does not work. Any approved literature and any informed doctor would agree.

All drug use is not bad. I use caffeine every morning. I use aspirin or advil as directed when experiencing pain crossing over into the realms of unmanageable or at least when taking as directed would make the pain more manageable. I use drugs prescribed by an informed doctor to help treat my bipolar and depression. I would love to use more drugs. The problem is, for me, most drugs fall under the realm of I can not use them safely without negative consequences. Key word there is: "for me"

I shot cocaine and opiates on the regular for quite some time. not one person in my life that I did not want to know, knew. I worked and maintained a habit for years until I decided it was causing stagnation in my life. I wasn't on the streets about to die or anything though. Once I lost my girlfriend and had made no forward progress in life in two years (mainly due to the time and money I had to put into drug acquisition) I decided to stop and put in the necessary work to do so. Shooting cociane was much more mentally addicting than any drug I have ever done. I'm lucky it started giving me severe panic attacks. Made heroin look like pot or Tylenol. I would go into withdrawal from opiates just to be able to afford some coke for my shot. Still, got away from the shit for a week and boom that was it. Not too hard to stay away. I've even snorted it several times since with no problems. Opiates were a lot harder to kick despite mentally wanting to quit much more because of the awful physical sickness. But once you get past the sickness and get your head right it is possible to be ok again. I don't buy into the 12 step dogma of fucked for life, addict for life. I know I am more prone to substance abuse than most. At this point however I feel truly over drugs. I've done them all at length and any allure they once held for me is gone. I know what they do, I can still enjoy them from time to time or use them as tools. However I don't buy into the belief that drugs are intrinsically bad or that for me to do any drug from this point on would be a 'relapse'

The only person in the world who can truly diagnose you as a hopeless addict with a substance abuse/addiction problem is you. That is awesome you are not currently shooting coke. Shooting coke and speed balls is nasty business. I would personally not recommend to any human being in the universe.

I do not diss drug use. I wish I could use them safely with out consequences (all day, everyday...) but I cannot.

Anyways, I like this discussion. I am pro anything that furthers a truthful discussion about drugs and drug use.

Peace, Love, and Tolerance,

RiKD

Is this like stopping the pirate bay? Is there already a silk road 2, 3, 4 etc?

On May 30 2015 18:40 sniderstyle wrote: People use drugs. He made a marketplace to help get rid of the violence.

bullshit, he made it to make money

anyways, the sentences are huge because he isn't "playing by the rules". sites like his are a pain in the ass for the establishment, so that is punished extra harshly.

but, if you read the chat logs of him requesting assassinations... yeah, I don't really feel sorry for him

Are the two mutually exclusive? Yeah the murder stuff is pretty horrendous. I think he just got wrapped up in the game. Does it matter that the murder for hire was orchestrated by corrupt DEA/Secret service agents who stole hundreds of thousands worth of bitcoins, commandeered a mod account(stole money from all the vendors)and ransomed DPR, illegally?

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/dea-agent-charged-acting-paid-mole-silk-road/

This wasn't allowed to be presented at trial and a host of other things.
They still never explained truthfully how they obtained the server which many think came from the NSA Five Eyes program and fed into the DEA's lap. Unfortunatley, the defense never claimed the server so they didn't have to explain how they obtained it.

I think Ross deserves jail time, just not a lifesentence and 200mm $ fine.

The thing is, this guy wasn't tried for the murder shit.

I'm pretty far to the right on the political spectrum, but natural life imprisoned for running an internet drug marketplace seems ludicrous.

Half the reason I own guns is because of the absurd heroin epidemic in my area, but I still don't believe that the guys selling them garbage deserve natural life in prison.

Dude's like what? <30? It's a 60+ year sentences barring some really bad disease luck.

Snider, why in the world was he so careless about giving up his identity? And why did he stay in the states?

On May 31 2015 12:43 TheTrees wrote: Snider, why in the world was he so careless about giving up his identity? And why did he stay in the states?

He did fill out an an application for “economic citizenship” in the Caribbean island of Dominica . In the trial , it showed Ross's personal email rossulbricht@gmail.com emailing family/friends members for references. He even flew down there and had an interview. He was arrested before anything came of it.

Give up his identity? Oh, do you mean why he claimed to be the Original DPR + the one that started created the Site? His defense wanted some ridic theory about multiple DPRs, which may or may not be true, however, he was caught red handed so I think that was pretty hopeless. I'm not sure anyone knows exactly how they found him in the first place. There's speculation that the owner of Mt. Gox gave up his name. One thing that is little known that he had ordered 7 or 8 fake ID's in a Silk Road order, and that package was intercepted in July. Ross was actually visited and interviewed by Homeland Security,. This is probably when Law Enforcement knew. And other little signs such as a month before Silk Road was busted Freedomhosting was hit, which hosted TorMail. Many of the vendors and even DPR himself used tormail for shady dealings. Many of the vendors knew they were already busted once Tormail was taken. Then a month later, Silk Road was busted.

On May 29 2015 22:47 Santafairy wrote: "and whose website resulted in countless addictions and multiple drug-related deaths because of the ease with which it allowed people to purchase drugs." This is from a government which operates liquor stores and then advocates a nonsense 12-step AA program to addicts

welp

I don't know enough about Ross and the Silk Road to have a solid opinion. But I have a solid understanding and sympathise with the libertarian values Ross is said to have and the reason for the Silk Road being a thing in the first place. I think anyone could've seen this coming with Americas current political situation unfortunately. Sad that this is how our world works.

He may have professed libertarian values, but that doesn't make him one. He wanted to murder people, which is an interference in the market. I really find it hard to believe people can sympathize with this guy so much. Maybe his punishment was too severe (as most are in the united states), but it's hard to deny he is a cruel person when reading those chat logs. He is not some political activist freedom fighter, unless of course you value the freedom to murder people and sell drugs. He is just a criminal (and a minor one) compared to the government.

On June 03 2015 08:14 Stroggoz wrote: He may have professed libertarian values, but that doesn't make him one. He wanted to murder people, which is an interference in the market. I really find it hard to believe people can sympathize with this guy so much. Maybe his punishment was too severe (as most are in the united states), but it's hard to deny he is a cruel person when reading those chat logs. He is not some political activist freedom fighter, unless of course you value the freedom to murder people and sell drugs. He is just a criminal (and a minor one) compared to the government.

You have to attempt to take the murder for hire out of the context here if you're looking at it as a thought exercise, because it wasn't presented in this trial. His sentencing was solely due to running a drug market and some other minor (by comparison) fake ID charges I believe.

On June 02 2015 11:07 Trav94 wrote: I don't know enough about Ross and the Silk Road to have a solid opinion. But I have a solid understanding and sympathise with the libertarian values Ross is said to have and the reason for the Silk Road being a thing in the first place. I think anyone could've seen this coming with Americas current political situation unfortunately. Sad that this is how our world works.

Basically I think it just comes down to whether or not you think a blackmarket kingpin should ever deserve natural life in prison.

He never directly sold a drug to anyone or assaulted anyone, he just facilitated an (illegal) marketplace.

Perhaps I'm underplaying the severity but I still can't wrap my head around natural life. There are guy who are leaders of legit violent drug gangs who get less time. It seems his punishment was relative to the financial income/scope rather than the actual crime, and I'm not sure that's fair.

Nolan - obviously it is going to go to appeals. Life in prison for running the silk road seems way too harsh and shows exactly how archaic our justice system and the people running really are. A bunch wise, but out of touch, upper middle class to wealthy judges doling out punishments with zeal to those they believe deserve it, power tripping on their own position.

the murder for hire stuff, as well as some other things about Ross, make him a bit of a scum bag. running the silk road makes him a businessman. the thing is, he was operating a marketplace for ATM hacks, porn and sometimes child porn, drugs, guns, fake ids, etc. all of these are pretty high up on the government's "No No" list. If he was only allowing users to sell drugs, and soft drugs, i think his punishment is different. he was helping child pornographers reach their market and helping the sickos buy it.

all of that said, i think any prison time is a little bit over kill; i think a huge fine is in order and that should be about it. hell, other companies have taken part in illegal trades, black market transactions, murder for hire, etc and they are still around today. many finance companies do the shadiest shit in the world and we don't bat an eye.

fine him like 180 million, leaving him 1 and 1 for the lawyers. case closed.

I don't think you realize how big of a deal this is on a political scale. If they don't put him in jail they essentially lose huge control over the masses. This case could potentially allow people to change their mindsets and act on it freely, that would be disastrous for the people that set the current world order. If this is allowed in the USA it would immediately spread world wide as everything else that's happened post the Cold War.
Tbh it would be far better for society globally if the guy doesn't go to jail even if he s a cold scumbag that hires hitmen as that's not how he ll be perceived in the end game as that would open the door for people to start widening their narrow minds

I'm amazed anyone thought this was going to end any other way.

And frankly, I'm pretty surprised anyone anyone on this forum had the balls to even try to argue that he's simply a libertarian protecting free trade.

Like spitfiree said, this had insane political ramifications. The guy was fucked. Before he even went to court.

And yeah, he was trying to hire hitmen to further his business. Innocent guy, caught up in the cross-wires? fuck off.

It should be said I'm extremely pro legalization of the vast majority of stuff. The last post looked like I was against it all.

I think the American justice system is a complete fucking mess (from my limited understanding), and blah blah blah, all that shit's bad and all. Regardless, this guy was a criminal mastermind. You don't need to hold a gun to be a gangster.

On June 05 2015 18:00 nolan wrote: Show nested quote + On June 03 2015 08:14 Stroggoz wrote: He may have professed libertarian values, but that doesn't make him one. He wanted to murder people, which is an interference in the market. I really find it hard to believe people can sympathize with this guy so much. Maybe his punishment was too severe (as most are in the united states), but it's hard to deny he is a cruel person when reading those chat logs. He is not some political activist freedom fighter, unless of course you value the freedom to murder people and sell drugs. He is just a criminal (and a minor one) compared to the government. You have to attempt to take the murder for hire out of the context here if you're looking at it as a thought exercise, because it wasn't presented in this trial. His sentencing was solely due to running a drug market and some other minor (by comparison) fake ID charges I believe.

He tried to get people murdered, he's not a libertarian.

Yeah he's neolibertarian not libertarian .... not that there is a big difference. Libertarians will use the biggest bullshit excuse to do whatever the fuck they want to do. Libertarians are the ones that went into Afghanistan and into Iraq and got destroyed by criticism. Libertarianism promotes all those good moral ideologies then puts a bunch of exceptions in them to justify whatever they want even if it is the exact opposite of their fundamental ideology. Basically how to be a successful hypocrite