1-1-2 NL 4 to go.

new hand added
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Arguing with friend about a hand. Utg puts out 4 which is a call in this game (limp basically) next to act calls 4. Friend makes it 20 to go with a 130 stack in mp. LP flat calls 20. Blinds and UTG fold. Limper I guess looks confused and about to put in the call but then goes all in on someone's suggestion for 42 total barely reopening the action. My friend calls and LP who has everyone covered also calls. Friend (call Paul) misses the flop and folds to LP's bet who then takes down the pot with a flopped top pair (Aj or Kj or something like that, AJ if what he is saying to defend his play is true).

He had KQ suited my friend and my issue was I told him it was just a super easy jam pre. Had Paul shoved flop he would have turned a queen and won the hand so he got pissed. I guess people in these live games don't like to play aggressively pre (3/5 plays a little more normal but this is one of those games where a 3bet is pretty dam rare and if you see one its your QQ+/AK). I told him to be happy that SS shoved and to take advantage of it and to reshove in order to fold out LP and just run it all in vs the fish with that $20 call dead in the pot. Seems ideal to me.

Paul's logic was that if he shoved he was getting called by AJ anyways (results oriented obv) and that he'd rather just call the 20 more to win a big pot if he connects.

Anyone else not cram?

no, everyone shoves apart from bad players imho

yes always shove

I've also so many issues about those lives games. I feel like when there are so much limpers, I'll obviously get one or two retarded hands' calls and even if i'm continuation betting, they'd go like a calling station. Which is not really the best play.
And when shoving, I wouldn't get any actions because i'm often 100 or 120bb deep (blind are 2 and 4, you can buy in for 500) against mostly 25-30 bb deep. Seriously, what am I supposed to do ?
I tried to make bigger pfr, but it's also kinda retarded. Sometime they'd all call, sometime not. Only way would be to make constant bigger pfr with only premium hands in order to get a strong image, but then you'd have to be prepared to play the most boring live game ever.
T_T

To op : Yeah shove it. Wouldn't be surprised if he called though (see above). What did he get btw ?

The short stack shove is 20% of his remaining stack. Easy shovel. Sounds like his plan was to fold if he missed flop. Which means putting in 1/3 of stack pre then playing fit or fold. Seems pretty clear that is terrible.

hand from 2nite 1-1-2 nl . the 3 relevant in the players have 200 so 100bb

ep raise, a call, i call late with 77, maybe one more call and sb call.

297r flop. sb leads 10, I call, LP raises to either 32 or 36. sb calls.

Usually I would flat here but these players are pretty bad and don't fold much. I decide to raise to 90. LP thinks for a bit and shoves. Sb snaps. I snap. runout is 5 then 6 obv. sb wins with 68o. LP shows 79.

My only real question is do you think the flop 3bet is just too inbalanced and transparent? I mean who bluffs in my spot? I mean I could potentially pop up 68 myself or something but I expect these guys to just view my raise as strength but not fold anyways. Anyone rather flat flop than 3b?

Just wondering what gets max value on the flop do you think. Would you have raised after SB's initial bet instead of flatting?

once lp raises hes never folding anyways and there could be bad scare cards on turn and river so might as well get it in

On March 28 2015 07:14 aCa_ wrote: once lp raises hes never folding anyways and there could be bad scare cards on turn and river so might as well get it in

That's what I figured too and it worked out. However, he did go in to the tank for quite a while and was pretty close to folding. This made me wonder if a better player would actually fold (i likely would) and made me think even this guy would fold weaker parts of his flop raising range (if that even goes lower than 2p in the 1st place) in which case maybe I should just call too and go to the turn.

I still think it's probably a raise, just seeing what ppl think is max value