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TimDawg    United States. Jun 05 2014 19:42. Posts 10157

Game was good but the 2-3 big spots all just left and game prob going to break soon.

Villain in this hand seems like a good aggro reg who probably comes from an online background. He's already 3bet a decent amount and me in particular a couple of times. He also prob views me in a similar regard (solid online reg ect).

CO: Fish $1500ish
Hero $5800ish
SB: Good online reg $5000
Villain (BB) covers

CO limps and I raise AsKc to $100 on the button
SB, BB & CO all call...

Flop: Js3c4d
Pot: $400

Checks around..

Turn: Js3c4hKd
Pot: $400

Checks to me, I bet $200

SB thinks a min & calls, BB calls behind quickly, CO folds

River: Js3c4hKd8d
Pot: $1000

Check to me..I bet $750

SB tanks and folds, BB asks me how many bills I have behind (I tell him) & he throws in two $5k chips, essentially putting me all in

I don't really like my river sizing at all in retrospect. I think it's way too big and something closer to 1/3-2/5 pot would've been better.

River is a pretty stupid spot. I have in my eyes, pretty much one of the hands that would be near the top of my range. However my range is capped to strong Kx's & maybe some 2p hands because of my flop check back. I think he's for sure aware of this.

His line is somewhat weird to take with a strong hand but because of how dry the board is, I think it's conceivable for him to have 44/33/KJ..other 2p type combos seem possible but not as likely. Bluffs he could have I suppose would be QT/56/25/67/75 or random 1p hands he turns into a bluff. I think he'd be more likely to 3bet all the random small connector/1-2 gapper type hands preflop as well but he might flat them most of the time with him just 3betting me within last 2-3 hands before this one.

What do I do LP?

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online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball 

PoorUser    United States. Jun 05 2014 22:34. Posts 7342

sorta annoying meta spot vs someone decent since he reps nothing really. pretty unlikely spot for a competent player to bluff but id discount 33/44/kj from no c/r turn since everyone builds pots deep there. guess you're just stuck making a read based on what hes capable of/how he likes to bluff. hard to know without being in the game but id probably call and hope not to lose to k8 or something like that.

Moneys gotta go in hereLast edit: 05/06/2014 22:35

mnj   United States. Jun 06 2014 00:41. Posts 3848

im always folding QQ he has some stupid 2 pair


AndrewSong    United States. Jun 06 2014 04:35. Posts 2336

just fold

you already block a king when most of his bluffs are kings u beat with a kicker. its also rare to see a reg randomly spazz when he reps so little


locoo   Peru. Jun 06 2014 11:14. Posts 4477

Poker is like a couch, the money's in the folds

bitte bitte bitte bitte bitte bitte 

phexac   United States. Jun 06 2014 15:00. Posts 2563

I agree with your point that your hand seems pretty obvious. My sense is that this isn't a spot where he's going to spazz out and try to make you fold top pair, thought that would likely be a pretty good play there. I'd just fold and move on.

Also, A+ on locoo's couch point.

EDIT: Thinking about this a bit more, I feel this is a spot where I could level myself into calling thinking that it's a good spot to bluff only to tell myself once again afterwards that people don't make those sick plays nearly as often I it seems when you have a strong hand to fold.

Nitting it up since 2006Last edit: 06/06/2014 15:03

JohnnyBologna   United States. Jun 06 2014 20:55. Posts 1393

I use to love this play and used it quite frequently against regs who i know are competent and even sometimes against fish because your hand is so FACE UP. Although my play varied from the OP, i feel it contributes to the thread.
It was the same in all manners except the villain(me) check raises the turn BIG and put in a really big bet on the river.

Thought Process: High fucking chance he hit that king but theres like no chance in hell he has more than 1 pair and I would check raise turn with the intention of a really big bet on river. I did this with stuff like pocket 2s that missed/bottom pair/ draws.

It worked really well and most of the time villain folded on the turn if not by river. i think i got looked up once by wobbly_au though because of a timing tell or either he was on a meta game with me.

Of course i would balance this with my actual made hands too. Take what you will of that, just my 2 cents.

By doing a little bit at a time, a lot can be done 

locoo   Peru. Jun 06 2014 21:23. Posts 4477

lol at trying to make woobly fold

bitte bitte bitte bitte bitte bitte 

AndrewSong    United States. Jun 07 2014 13:20. Posts 2336

lol yea punt 5800 for ur 300 invested tryin to make him fold top of his top range. gl


n0rthf4ce    United States. Jun 07 2014 16:40. Posts 8118

I like to bet flop in this spot. I think you are deep enough and multiway enough to not only force them to play straightforward by not bluffraising, but also to force them to fold most hands worse than jx. It helps a lot that the fish has the best relative position to our bet. Additionally, with the fish in the pot, the blinds are going to have wider ranges that cannot continue on this flop. We have a clear cut give up spot vs further action.

As played, just fold. I like your sizing as its going to be hard for anyone to fold Kx here in villain's spot as turn seems like a good delayed cbet spot with a variety of straightdraws. Imo villain's most likely hand is k8 or a very poorly played monster. Very rarely will someone go for this type of bluff when he knows that u know ur range is capped and that he's repping nothing

www.cardrunners.com 

JohnnyBologna   United States. Jun 08 2014 15:19. Posts 1393

Well I didnt say call now did I? In OP's version the villain is doing something that would take an enormous amount of balls that the average man doesn't have. So just in that sense i would fold, unless the guy looked like mike tyson or something.

By doing a little bit at a time, a lot can be done 

TimDawg    United States. Jun 10 2014 00:44. Posts 10157


  On June 06 2014 20:23 locoo wrote:
lol at trying to make woobly fold


Sounds like someone who's learned this by trying to make him fold too much

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball 

TimDawg    United States. Jun 10 2014 00:46. Posts 10157


  On June 07 2014 15:40 n0rthf4ce wrote:
I like to bet flop in this spot. I think you are deep enough and multiway enough to not only force them to play straightforward by not bluffraising, but also to force them to fold most hands worse than jx. It helps a lot that the fish has the best relative position to our bet. Additionally, with the fish in the pot, the blinds are going to have wider ranges that cannot continue on this flop. We have a clear cut give up spot vs further action.

As played, just fold. I like your sizing as its going to be hard for anyone to fold Kx here in villain's spot as turn seems like a good delayed cbet spot with a variety of straightdraws. Imo villain's most likely hand is k8 or a very poorly played monster. Very rarely will someone go for this type of bluff when he knows that u know ur range is capped and that he's repping nothing


Thanks for addressing flop play. I agree and your reasoning makes complete sense

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball 

TimDawg    United States. Jun 10 2014 00:47. Posts 10157

I'll wait for a few more people to respond and then post results

Kind've unexpected and funny how it turned out

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball 

NMcNasty    United States. Jun 10 2014 12:58. Posts 1800


  On June 09 2014 23:47 TimDawg wrote:
Kind've unexpected and funny how it turned out



Villain has AK?

You're last comment got me thinking but I still gotta say its a clear river fold. Putting 5k into a 1.7k pot as a bluff, trying to move someone (even a good player) off a likely top pair just isn't a good play. Its not something a bad or mediocre player even thinks about doing and for the most part its a play a good player will recognize as bad.

That said, if its so clearly a fold via the above thinking then bluffing a player holding to that logic would be a good play. So then its a call? So its real easy to get trapped into circular reasoning here, and get the feeling that you're in a leveling war. But IMO the reads you're describing just aren't strong enough to credit opponent with playing that type of game. I can't tell you how many times a player seemed like a winning online pro to me by their age, aggression level, and proper bet-sizing, only to see them make some purely idiotic play.


Baalim   Mexico. Jun 11 2014 00:13. Posts 31475

I think villian should have more monsters than usual in his range given that the fish was yet to act and he might seem some extra value there in a flat call, I think its important to think how he plays the turn with QT there, does he goes for a C/C? I think most people would simply just bet it because it kinda sucks to c/c in most spots and the fish there might make a dumb bet and he cant really CR light the fish can he?

So that reduces his potential bluffs to hands like JT, seems that the play has to be very read based, not many ppl have that kind of play in their book, also you might want to include JJ with some frecuency in your checkback range on that flop if such aggresive players are in the table.

Also I think the flop check is simply terrible

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro OnlineLast edit: 11/06/2014 00:14

n0rthf4ce    United States. Jun 11 2014 03:48. Posts 8118

Honestly I can't fault u for checking flop as our equity sucks when called and we are 4 ways nor can I fault u for calling river if you want it approach it from a gto perspective. Either decision could go either way really. However I disagree with mcnasty's assessment that villain has ak here, as not 3betting ak pre nor betting turn if he somehow didn't 3b pre is inconceivable and just completely awful. That said, I'm curious as to the results!

www.cardrunners.com 

NMcNasty    United States. Jun 11 2014 09:02. Posts 1800


  On June 11 2014 02:48 n0rthf4ce wrote:
However I disagree with mcnasty's assessment that villain has ak here



I was just trying to guess a "funny and unexpected" result.


YoMeR   United States. Jun 11 2014 17:12. Posts 12344

I like how you played this hand given the situation and players in the hand with you.

As played I call if villain is stuck and fold if villain is up.

As a standard i fold here tho ;D

eZ Life. 

JonnyCosMo   United States. Jun 12 2014 03:37. Posts 7292

Only one way to find out what he has :-P

Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser 

 
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