North Korea Has Gone Completely Insane - Page 5

On April 01 2013 21:53 Gnarly wrote: Show nested quote + On April 01 2013 21:27 NewbSaibot wrote: Oh of course we will attack, but China will not intervene because they cant afford to have us just say "lol fuck you" and stop paying. We've already been to war with NK once, and it did not end up being a war with China despite China's assistance. Do you not understand how treaties work? If we attack NK, if they attacked first or not, China MUST respond. If they don't, then every other treaty they currently have will be worthless, and they won't be able to get into any new treaties because they will have shown the entire world that their word is worthless. Whenever the first Korean war happened, they were not in a treaty. They only entered AFTER we left, and quite a few years after. They are CURRENTLY in a treaty with NK. In 2021, they either renew or they don't. Maybe things can be held off until then, but until then, China must honor it's word.

Do you seriously think China will start an apocalyptic nuclear 3rd world war to "honor their word"?.


China has grown apart lately from NorthKorean ideologies and its drifting towards modernity, NK is nothing but their old rabid dog that was useful in the past, but now that its their time to climb to the top of the world they wont hesitate in putting it down if it comes to it.

On April 01 2013 23:42 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On April 01 2013 21:53 Gnarly wrote:   On April 01 2013 21:27 NewbSaibot wrote: Oh of course we will attack, but China will not intervene because they cant afford to have us just say "lol fuck you" and stop paying. We've already been to war with NK once, and it did not end up being a war with China despite China's assistance. Do you not understand how treaties work? If we attack NK, if they attacked first or not, China MUST respond. If they don't, then every other treaty they currently have will be worthless, and they won't be able to get into any new treaties because they will have shown the entire world that their word is worthless. Whenever the first Korean war happened, they were not in a treaty. They only entered AFTER we left, and quite a few years after. They are CURRENTLY in a treaty with NK. In 2021, they either renew or they don't. Maybe things can be held off until then, but until then, China must honor it's word. Do you seriously think China will start an apocalyptic nuclear 3rd world war to "honor their word"?. China has grown apart lately from NorthKorean ideologies and its drifting towards modernity, NK is nothing but their old rabid dog that was useful in the past, but now that its their time to climb to the top of the world they wont hesitate in putting it down if it comes to it.

If China dishonors one treaty, would they dishonor any of it's other treaties? Do you think Russia, Taiwan, Australia, and other countries would not care at all? They would shit fucking bricks. Do you know about BRICS? Do you think Brazil, India, Russia and South Africa would keep doing business with China? I'm not saying China will immediately start nuking everyone. I'm saying that China will engage in military combat if NK is attacked.

It's like playing poker with some people, and one of the people goes all-in, loses, and refuses to actually pay up. Would you ever play with that person ever again? Word would spread and other people would avoid that player.

Do you think China would willingly lose it's trading partners?

I can guarantee China cutting ties to North Korea would have precisely zero negative impact on Australian-Chinese relations. International Relations is a hell of a lot more complex than the schoolyard system you're presenting here.

But hey, I don't know shit about it.

On March 30 2013 13:16 Stroggoz wrote: Kim John Un probably believes a lot of the show himself. He is the third generation ruler of a country that heavily indoctrinates it's upper/middle class. so i wouldn't be surprised if he bought everything their state media and his advisers tell him. I mean, they would all want to believe it so they can keep on living the good life. The power structure in north korea allows for the most loyal/unquestioning to become the most influential, and the most questioning/unloyal to be sent to the gulag. Anyway, just my speculation I might post some stuff on america later nolan but not in this thread.

I thought he went to school in the west? I kind of doubt he believes anything he says...

On April 02 2013 01:39 TianYuan wrote: Show nested quote + On March 30 2013 13:16 Stroggoz wrote: Kim John Un probably believes a lot of the show himself. He is the third generation ruler of a country that heavily indoctrinates it's upper/middle class. so i wouldn't be surprised if he bought everything their state media and his advisers tell him. I mean, they would all want to believe it so they can keep on living the good life. The power structure in north korea allows for the most loyal/unquestioning to become the most influential, and the most questioning/unloyal to be sent to the gulag. Anyway, just my speculation I might post some stuff on america later nolan but not in this thread. I thought he went to school in the west? I kind of doubt he believes anything he says...

yeah he did go to school in Switzerland i think.

There was a recent AMA on reddit from a defector who had some interesting things to say about public opinion / propaganda in NK.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments..._defector_from_north_korea_joined_by/

On April 02 2013 01:28 TheLink wrote: I can guarantee China cutting ties to North Korea would have precisely zero negative impact on Australian-Chinese relations. International Relations is a hell of a lot more complex than the schoolyard system you're presenting here. But hey, I don't know shit about it.

It depends on how they cut ties. If they did it now, they would be saying that all of their treaties are now susceptible to the same fate. Unless, of course, that's just not how things work and countries who go back on their words are actually trusted even more. It would force every country to re-evaluate their current treaties with China.

"Oh, a major trading partner just negated a treaty without proper procedure? Let's extend our treaties with them!"

ER sorry but china doesn't give a shit about anything except making money and the nk is broke as fuck - its not rocket science to analyze how this will eventually play out between china and nk.

NK is an exception to the rule. Nobody would give a rat fuck if China dropped them in a hot minute, and in fact it would probably be expected. China's relationship with NK is nothing like their relationship with other nations. China only backs NK as part of some historical communist drama before China became the industry it is today. China benefits absolutely nothing from NK and their financial support of them practically amounts to a rounding error on the yearly budget sheets. "Oh NK? Shit we're still sending them goods? Well, whatever. It's more hassle to stop than it is to just continue, fuck it". But if NK loses their shit and some retarded commander orders a missile launch while a B-2 is flying by? Yeah shit is on now and no way China risks their economy to "uphold their word" to a nation nobody expects them to give a fuck about. It'd be like if the USA stopped sending aid to fuckin, zimbabwe or some dumb shit. You think anybody would give a fuck about a broken treaty like that?

for those of you who play civ5
http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeIA..._possible_north_korea_vs_usa_conflict

Really nobody has any fucking clue how China will react if NK and SK go to war. It's a very delicate situation.

On April 02 2013 03:24 Gnarly wrote: Show nested quote + On April 02 2013 01:28 TheLink wrote: I can guarantee China cutting ties to North Korea would have precisely zero negative impact on Australian-Chinese relations. International Relations is a hell of a lot more complex than the schoolyard system you're presenting here. But hey, I don't know shit about it. It depends on how they cut ties. If they did it now, they would be saying that all of their treaties are now susceptible to the same fate. Unless, of course, that's just not how things work and countries who go back on their words are actually trusted even more. It would force every country to re-evaluate their current treaties with China. "Oh, a major trading partner just negated a treaty without proper procedure? Let's extend our treaties with them!"

You have a very black and white view of the situation. Diplomacy is flexible and treaties are not all born equal. Especially treaties made with dictators... these only hold while it is beneficial to the stronger side.

If no one expected China to back up NK, then why is there such a delicate situation? If it was just NK by itself, we would've destroyed them by now. But alas! They are a buffer for China, and are protected by China! Then again, NK is also a trading partner of Russia, so we'd have to deal with that backlash in such a scenario. NK is also thought to have around 6 trillion dollars worth of raw materials. Certainly enough for it to be of significance for the country.

America and Zimbabwe don't have any treaties by themselves, but America has one with a group of African countries that does include Zimbabwe. If America says, "Fuck you, Z," then the other countries in the treaty would need to evaluate that situation.

Burundi Comoros Congo Dem Rep. Djibouti Egypt Eritrea Ethiopia Kenya Libya Madagascar Malawi Mauritius Rwanda Seychelles Sudan Swaziland Uganda Zambia Zimbabwe

All of these countries are under America's influence to prevent other major powers like Russia or China from getting to them. And that's not the only TIFA that America is involved with, as they are involved world wide. So, if America stopped part of it's bargain just for one part of a group, it would send a message to all other TIFA participants. If you don't think so, you really need a dose of reality.

I think NewbSaibot hit the nail on the head

On April 02 2013 08:01 NewbSaibot wrote: NK is an exception to the rule. Nobody would give a rat fuck if China dropped them in a hot minute, and in fact it would probably be expected. China's relationship with NK is nothing like their relationship with other nations. China only backs NK as part of some historical communist drama before China became the industry it is today. China benefits absolutely nothing from NK and their financial support of them practically amounts to a rounding error on the yearly budget sheets. "Oh NK? Shit we're still sending them goods? Well, whatever. It's more hassle to stop than it is to just continue, fuck it". But if NK loses their shit and some retarded commander orders a missile launch while a B-2 is flying by? Yeah shit is on now and no way China risks their economy to "uphold their word" to a nation nobody expects them to give a fuck about. It'd be like if the USA stopped sending aid to fuckin, zimbabwe or some dumb shit. You think anybody would give a fuck about a broken treaty like that?

+ Show Spoiler +

On April 02 2013 00:09 Gnarly wrote: Show nested quote + On April 01 2013 23:42 Baalim wrote:   On April 01 2013 21:53 Gnarly wrote:   On April 01 2013 21:27 NewbSaibot wrote: Oh of course we will attack, but China will not intervene because they cant afford to have us just say "lol fuck you" and stop paying. We've already been to war with NK once, and it did not end up being a war with China despite China's assistance. Do you not understand how treaties work? If we attack NK, if they attacked first or not, China MUST respond. If they don't, then every other treaty they currently have will be worthless, and they won't be able to get into any new treaties because they will have shown the entire world that their word is worthless. Whenever the first Korean war happened, they were not in a treaty. They only entered AFTER we left, and quite a few years after. They are CURRENTLY in a treaty with NK. In 2021, they either renew or they don't. Maybe things can be held off until then, but until then, China must honor it's word. Do you seriously think China will start an apocalyptic nuclear 3rd world war to "honor their word"?. China has grown apart lately from NorthKorean ideologies and its drifting towards modernity, NK is nothing but their old rabid dog that was useful in the past, but now that its their time to climb to the top of the world they wont hesitate in putting it down if it comes to it. If China dishonors one treaty, would they dishonor any of it's other treaties? Do you think Russia, Taiwan, Australia, and other countries would not care at all? They would shit fucking bricks. Do you know about BRICS? Do you think Brazil, India, Russia and South Africa would keep doing business with China? I'm not saying China will immediately start nuking everyone. I'm saying that China will engage in military combat if NK is attacked. It's like playing poker with some people, and one of the people goes all-in, loses, and refuses to actually pay up. Would you ever play with that person ever again? Word would spread and other people would avoid that player. Do you think China would willingly lose it's trading partners?

Chinas trading partners dont give a flying fuck about north korea, probably as the rest of the world they secretly hope it finally turns into a smoldering crater, China wouldnt look sleazy or weak to the rest of the world if they abandon NorthKorea, it would look like a sensible country for the first time.

On April 02 2013 08:01 NewbSaibot wrote: NK is an exception to the rule. Nobody would give a rat fuck if China dropped them in a hot minute, and in fact it would probably be expected. China's relationship with NK is nothing like their relationship with other nations. China only backs NK as part of some historical communist drama before China became the industry it is today. China benefits absolutely nothing from NK and their financial support of them practically amounts to a rounding error on the yearly budget sheets. "Oh NK? Shit we're still sending them goods? Well, whatever. It's more hassle to stop than it is to just continue, fuck it". But if NK loses their shit and some retarded commander orders a missile launch while a B-2 is flying by? Yeah shit is on now and no way China risks their economy to "uphold their word" to a nation nobody expects them to give a fuck about. It'd be like if the USA stopped sending aid to fuckin, zimbabwe or some dumb shit. You think anybody would give a fuck about a broken treaty like that?

First time i agree with NewbSaibot ever

China would use that treaty as toilet paper if it would mean they lose their trillions of dollars in collectibles from the rest of the world

Think of having a really prosperous business and your asshole of a cousin is bugging all your customers and threatening them all the time lol

I think what's happening is this: Kim Jong Un is new, and is just trying to basically do the same his father did to make sure he doesn't loose the control of his country. He's trying to prove himself to his people. But its not working, USA is ignoring them. So he has to QQ harder and harder and harder until he gets his toy. China can tell him to calm down all it wants, it doesn't matter.

But this Kim guy doesn't look very stable, so its hard to predict what he will do once he realize all this QQing won't do anything.

China probably just wants all of this to end, but also surely doesn't want NK to disapear. If NK attacked SK and Allies attacked NK, i don't know what China would do. My guess would be is they will help out NK but not start WW3 or something.

I'm wonder for those who are that no one cares about NK, do you actually work for the government, or is that just your opinion?

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/north.../0401000000AEN20130403001900315F.HTML

NK holds up S. Korean workers' departure to Kaesong industrial complex