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Garfed   Malta. Oct 16 2012 16:42. Posts 4818

Nothing to add, my opinion is pretty one sided so I would like to hear other opinions

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TeSpartan   Iceland. Oct 16 2012 17:43. Posts 15

D Negs is the man
Always respected the guy and I like his thought process and rational thinking on the whole FTP scandal
kind of agree with everything he said


Zep   United States. Oct 16 2012 18:06. Posts 2292

oh man. lol. absolutely destroyed.

NeillyJQ: I really wanted to prove to myself I could beat NL200, I did over a small sample, and believe Ill be crushing there in the future. 

NewbSaibot   United States. Oct 16 2012 18:25. Posts 4943

Kind of a silly rant though. Everyone keeps criticizing his incompetence, his negligence, his basic lack of understanding business fundamentals, segregated accounts, etc etc etc. But uh, actually Howard was quite smart. Do you think he just accidentally found himself walking away with millions of dollars? This was clearly a scam set from the get go. You dont start embezzling company money and saying "whoopsie what did I do here!". He purposely built the business in such a manner that you COULD steal money like this. That was the entire point! It didnt start out like this, but once you look at the profit sheets and recognize "hey, we have a fuck ton of money coming in here, I could totally just steal this shit and nobody would ever know" then you're going to make it easy for yourself. There was nothing incompetent about it at all. He stole money exactly like he planned to.

bye nowLast edit: 16/10/2012 18:26

DooMeR   United States. Oct 16 2012 18:43. Posts 8544

D neg is indeed the man. always respected the way he talks. no wonder he used to be my favorite poker player for like 2 years

I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance, by running away from the scene of an accident. 

Rapoza   Brasil. Oct 16 2012 20:07. Posts 1612

--- Nuked ---

Pouncer Style 4 the win 

qwerty67890   New Zealand. Oct 17 2012 08:09. Posts 14026

I wont be able to put it any better than Haralobos, so im just going to link to his blog that highlights Daniels inherant flaw in everything he does.

http://aloneinthecorner.com/post/33285032029/heroes-and-villains-in-poker

and heres a pic of his TVs to confirm boss status
+ Show Spoiler +



he also has/had an absurdly hot girlfriend.


kingpowa   France. Oct 17 2012 13:57. Posts 1525

indeed
+ Show Spoiler +

sorry for shitty english. 

2c0ntent   Egypt. Oct 17 2012 14:03. Posts 1387


  On October 16 2012 17:25 NewbSaibot wrote:
Kind of a silly rant though. Everyone keeps criticizing his incompetence, his negligence, his basic lack of understanding business fundamentals, segregated accounts, etc etc etc. But uh, actually Howard was quite smart. Do you think he just accidentally found himself walking away with millions of dollars? This was clearly a scam set from the get go. You dont start embezzling company money and saying "whoopsie what did I do here!". He purposely built the business in such a manner that you COULD steal money like this. That was the entire point! It didnt start out like this, but once you look at the profit sheets and recognize "hey, we have a fuck ton of money coming in here, I could totally just steal this shit and nobody would ever know" then you're going to make it easy for yourself. There was nothing incompetent about it at all. He stole money exactly like he planned to.



Yeah, incompetence is absolutely not howard's problem, to his credit.

+- 

Baalim   Mexico. Oct 18 2012 02:17. Posts 34246


  On October 16 2012 17:25 NewbSaibot wrote:
Kind of a silly rant though. Everyone keeps criticizing his incompetence, his negligence, his basic lack of understanding business fundamentals, segregated accounts, etc etc etc. But uh, actually Howard was quite smart. Do you think he just accidentally found himself walking away with millions of dollars? This was clearly a scam set from the get go. You dont start embezzling company money and saying "whoopsie what did I do here!". He purposely built the business in such a manner that you COULD steal money like this. That was the entire point! It didnt start out like this, but once you look at the profit sheets and recognize "hey, we have a fuck ton of money coming in here, I could totally just steal this shit and nobody would ever know" then you're going to make it easy for yourself. There was nothing incompetent about it at all. He stole money exactly like he planned to.



I totally disagree.

A high caliber embezzler makes hundreds of millions out of ghost companies, Lederer Ferguson and Bitar turned a successful round business into shit for very little gain, it was buried in the ground in a mix of incompetence and fraud.

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

TeSpartan   Iceland. Oct 18 2012 09:34. Posts 15


  On October 18 2012 01:17 Baalim wrote:
Show nested quote +



I totally disagree.

A high caliber embezzler makes hundreds of millions out of ghost companies, Lederer Ferguson and Bitar turned a successful round business into shit for very little gain, it was buried in the ground in a mix of incompetence and fraud.


+1 nailed it


Daut    United States. Oct 18 2012 11:58. Posts 8955

daniel is a huge hypocrite. goes off on lederer but refuses to say anything bad about lindgren. if annie duke, howard lederer or anyone else he bashes did what lindgren did he would have a fucking field day.

while i agree with a lot of what he usually says, part of me has some sympathy for howard. guy was one of the only people who tried post black friday to get players paid and a deal was eventually made. everyone else quit while he stayed on and worked his ass off. i do place some of the blame on him for the situation happening, but he seems like the only one who tried to fix the problem. sure hes an unapologetic smug fucker who tried to blame the whole thing on ray bitar, but the amount of shit hes had to go through in the last 18 months i would never wish on anyone short of murderers and rapists. hes probably aged 20 years in that time.

NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut 

VanDerMeyde   Norway. Oct 18 2012 12:29. Posts 5108

Why isnt Howard Lederer in jail... why is he allowed to walk around free in America, while we have a norwegian guy in prison for basicly misunderstanding a roadsign (7.5 years..)

FUCKED UP country

:D 

SleepyHead   . Oct 18 2012 13:57. Posts 878

Yeah if that's true Norway is pretty fucked up.

Dude you some social darwinist ideas that they are giving hitlers ghost a boner - Baal 

devon06atX   Canada. Oct 18 2012 15:21. Posts 5458

Very concise analogy Vander


VanDerMeyde   Norway. Oct 18 2012 16:32. Posts 5108

btw Mr.Larsgård sits in american prison for "attempted murder with a lethal weapon (car)" (he almost hit some person with his car in panic after misunderstanding a road sign = 7.5 half year prison in USA)

:D and Howard goes free after scamming people for millions of dollars !

LOLOL American "legal" system

:D 

TheTrees   United States. Oct 18 2012 21:48. Posts 1592


  But witnesses and the prosecution describe an enraged motorist who refused pleas to turn around and instead screamed at pedestrians and drove as if aiming to hurt someone.
Navajo County Attorney Brad Carlyon said John drove toward one man and clipped a woman. Neither was seriously hurt.
"It was a case of bizarre, aggressive driving behavior," Carlyon said. "He was gesturing, he was yelling. People were getting out of the way for fear of being hurt."
* * *
Though bystanders waved and screamed at John Larsgard as he drove the wrong way, Liv said she could see the auto business where their belongings were. So, they decided to keep going. She got out and walked alongside, trying to explain to people why they just needed to go a little further.
"They became so angry, like we were trying to hurt someone," she said.



Sounds exactly like the story you just described. Lol


MARSHALL28   United States. Oct 18 2012 23:42. Posts 1897


  On October 18 2012 10:58 Daut wrote:
daniel is a huge hypocrite. goes off on lederer but refuses to say anything bad about lindgren. if annie duke, howard lederer or anyone else he bashes did what lindgren did he would have a fucking field day.

while i agree with a lot of what he usually says, part of me has some sympathy for howard. guy was one of the only people who tried post black friday to get players paid and a deal was eventually made. everyone else quit while he stayed on and worked his ass off. i do place some of the blame on him for the situation happening, but he seems like the only one who tried to fix the problem. sure hes an unapologetic smug fucker who tried to blame the whole thing on ray bitar, but the amount of shit hes had to go through in the last 18 months i would never wish on anyone short of murderers and rapists. hes probably aged 20 years in that time.



how can you have sympathy for this guy?

he profited like 40 million dollars off of us then didn't even consider paying us back even a penny after the shit hit the fan. he should be in prison for the next 20 years imo.

 Last edit: 18/10/2012 23:44

devon06atX   Canada. Oct 19 2012 01:57. Posts 5458

sadly, white-collar crime has massively easier sentences. Maybe that'll change after all the publicity madoff (sp?) created.

steal a 20k (insured) car with a prior, get a solid 10+ yrs.

steal 70 million from honest investors. get ~5. if that.


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Oct 19 2012 12:03. Posts 9634


  On October 18 2012 10:58 Daut wrote:
daniel is a huge hypocrite. goes off on lederer but refuses to say anything bad about lindgren. if annie duke, howard lederer or anyone else he bashes did what lindgren did he would have a fucking field day.

while i agree with a lot of what he usually says, part of me has some sympathy for howard. guy was one of the only people who tried post black friday to get players paid and a deal was eventually made. everyone else quit while he stayed on and worked his ass off. i do place some of the blame on him for the situation happening, but he seems like the only one who tried to fix the problem. sure hes an unapologetic smug fucker who tried to blame the whole thing on ray bitar, but the amount of shit hes had to go through in the last 18 months i would never wish on anyone short of murderers and rapists. hes probably aged 20 years in that time.


how many people you know that earn 40milly in 20 years?


RaiNKhAN    United States. Oct 19 2012 15:15. Posts 4080

7/10

The biggest Rockets, Sixers, and Grizzlies fan you will ever meet! 

qwerty67890   New Zealand. Oct 19 2012 20:48. Posts 14026


  On October 18 2012 22:42 MARSHALL28 wrote:
Show nested quote +



how can you have sympathy for this guy?

he profited like 40 million dollars off of us then didn't even consider paying us back even a penny after the shit hit the fan. he should be in prison for the next 20 years imo.


This.

Its fairly obvious Ray Bitar was in place to take the fall when shit hit the fan.

I really think Howard thought that after he did the interviews and with his hand selected idiot at the helm to blame everything on, that he would be able to profit from the company and save his image. Then he tilted massively when he did 7 hours of interviews and the community still wants him to die.


Smuft   Canada. Oct 20 2012 00:15. Posts 633


  On October 18 2012 10:58 Daut wrote:
daniel is a huge hypocrite. goes off on lederer but refuses to say anything bad about lindgren. if annie duke, howard lederer or anyone else he bashes did what lindgren did he would have a fucking field day.

while i agree with a lot of what he usually says, part of me has some sympathy for howard. guy was one of the only people who tried post black friday to get players paid and a deal was eventually made. everyone else quit while he stayed on and worked his ass off. i do place some of the blame on him for the situation happening, but he seems like the only one who tried to fix the problem. sure hes an unapologetic smug fucker who tried to blame the whole thing on ray bitar, but the amount of shit hes had to go through in the last 18 months i would never wish on anyone short of murderers and rapists. hes probably aged 20 years in that time.



I've been trying to decide how I feel about this guy for a while and I think this is pretty close to what it is.

I'd also like to add that more than 50% of his problem is that he's just such an unlikable guy, it wouldn't really have mattered what he did during this whole debacle, people still would have directed their darkness at him.


NeillyJQ   United States. Oct 20 2012 01:48. Posts 8947

i like daniels tyraid and agree with 93.3% of what he says

Just remember you need to be god damn sure about their tendencies. -Artanis11 http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/neillyaa/ 

Jelle   Belgium. Oct 20 2012 02:08. Posts 3476


  On October 18 2012 15:32 VanDerMeyde wrote:
btw Mr.Larsgård sits in american prison for "attempted murder with a lethal weapon (car)" (he almost hit some person with his car in panic after misunderstanding a road sign = 7.5 half year prison in USA)

:D and Howard goes free after scamming people for millions of dollars !

LOLOL American "legal" system



what the fuck :/ disgusting

i don't think its an american problem though, retarded laws are everywhere and when that robs people of a big chunk of their life thats just sickening

GroT 

VanDerMeyde   Norway. Oct 20 2012 20:48. Posts 5108

Girl arrested for using parfyme:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/09/texas-police-schools

13-year old arrested for burping:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-5...-arrested-for-burping-lawsuit-claims/

12-year old arrested for....:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/18/new.york.doodle.arrest/index.html?hpt=C1

Well u can read:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/ar...l-after-daughter-draws-picture-of-gun

America is truly going the wrong direction, im not even sure its safe to travel to that country anymore

:D 

TianYuan    Korea (South). Oct 21 2012 16:06. Posts 6817

WTF the texas link is so fucked up. WTF

Hm.. Off-suite socks.. 

2c0ntent   Egypt. Oct 21 2012 16:26. Posts 1387

this is the new evolution of a police state bros, guided by the repurposed insights of modern psychology

you get people used to hearing of people being arrested at 12 years old for doolding, but of course its not too big a deal after you get over the initial "wtf shock lol"

it happens more and more as time goes on..

soon the average adult remembers "that time I was arrested at 11 years old for jumping a fence"

then it isn't such a big deal when we start hearing that hundreds of protesters were "arrested", or a journalist was "arrested", etc., because being "arrested" is just a normal part of life in America

and so on..

+-Last edit: 21/10/2012 16:27

waga   United Kingdom. Oct 21 2012 20:09. Posts 2375

WTF ??
seriously WTF ???

How can you live in a country fucked up like that ?
For once , I'm proud to be french Oo


Daut    United States. Oct 22 2012 14:08. Posts 8955

http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/1...slaughter-for-earthquake-risk-report/

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK IS THIS SHIT. i realize off topic but along the lines of WTF 6 YEARS IN PRISON


  A group of six seismologists were convicted of manslaughter by an Italian court today for their role in the preparation of a risk report on seismic activity in L'Aquila, Italy. The report, which was generally regarded as reassuring, was released about a week before an earthquake struck the town, killing over 300 people. Initial reports indicate that the scientists have been sentenced to six years in prison.

The town of L'Aquila sits on a major fault line, and had been struck by several swarms of small magnitude earthquakes. The Italian government had organized a risk-assessment committee, which included seismologists (including the former head of the National Institute of Geophysics) and government officials. In the week before the earthquake struck, the group told the public that the high incidence of smaller earthquakes were not necessarily precursors of a larger quake. They did, however, also mention that earthquakes were unpredictable, and that building codes in the area needed to be adjusted to provide better seismic safety.

Reportedly, one of the Italian government officials took matters a step further, declaring that there was no danger, and suggesting that the smaller earthquakes had relieved stress on the fault.

A week later, L'Aquila was struck by a 6.3 magnitude quake, which devastated the area's older buildings. Reportedly, a number of the people who were killed in the event had stayed indoors because they believed that the quake did not pose a threat. The relatives of the deceased have helped drive the prosecution, and several were present in the court during the trial.

Although the trial has been portrayed as prosecuting scientists for failing to do the impossible—namely, predict an earthquake—the reality is somewhat more complicated. The scientists, in this case, were asked to produce a formal evaluation of risk in response to a specific series of quakes. Their analysis arguably reflected a reasonable interpretation of events, although some have suggested that it did not reflect the most current information we have about the role of small quakes in building larger strain on faults.

Any assessment of risk, however, assumed an oversized importance, given the environment in which it was released. Not only was there a panicked public, but an amateur seismologist was reportedly predicting large quakes in the area at regular intervals. And, in this case, the scientists' evaluation was presented to the public by a government official with no expertise in seismology (he was also convicted in the same verdict). And it's clear that, even if their report had understated any well established risks, they would never have been prosecuted had the quake not killed anyone, a result that was probably the product of centuries-old buildings as much as anything else.

The prosecution had attracted widespread condemnation from the scientific community, with one petition on behalf of the seismologists attracting over 5,000 signatures. But, shockingly, the judge in the case took only a few hours to deliver the verdict, and handed down sentences that were two years longer than those requested by the prosecutor. Appeals will undoubtedly be forthcoming.

NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, DautLast edit: 22/10/2012 14:09

SpasticInk   Sweden. Oct 22 2012 20:51. Posts 6298

....what the hell...


Jelle   Belgium. Oct 22 2012 21:46. Posts 3476

lol ok vandermeyde i muck

GroT 

YoMeR   United States. Oct 22 2012 21:54. Posts 12435

wow all those links...justice system fail

eZ Life. 

Eluflop   Estonia. Oct 23 2012 08:27. Posts 3835

in Estonia one guy (kick-boxer) killed an innocent bystander who went to break a street fight, on the street and ran away leaving him to die there, got 1,5 years on parole, he had to go do REAL jail time 2 months. So with out further adjue, all the killers should come to Estonia because apparantly our justice system is the shittiest and most unfair ever.


tomson    Poland. Oct 23 2012 22:08. Posts 1982


  On October 22 2012 13:08 Daut wrote:
http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/1...slaughter-for-earthquake-risk-report/

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK IS THIS SHIT. i realize off topic but along the lines of WTF 6 YEARS IN PRISON

Show nested quote +



This article sheds a bit more light on the verdict:
http://www.economist.com/node/21529006

A pretty interesting case. I dont' find the sentence as outrageous as you do though, because I feel like it all comes down to deciding whether there was negligence. Obviously the judge thought there was and 6 years for negligence that led to the death of over 300 people doesn't seem that rough to me.

Peace of mind cant be bought. 

MARSHALL28   United States. Oct 25 2012 00:54. Posts 1897

whether or not there was negligence? first .. we don't have the capacity to predict earthquakes, putting them in jail seems to suggest that we do. i just dont see how we can send people to jail for not doing a job they were not qualified for in the first place.

and who are these idiots who stayed in their houses in the middle of an earthquake just because somebody on TV said it wouldn't be dangerous? seems like their own fault to me.

this is pretty appalling. i would def feel wronged if this happened to me.

 Last edit: 25/10/2012 00:55

VanDerMeyde   Norway. Oct 25 2012 04:28. Posts 5108

"Some people have mixed feelings because Howard Lederer is often the mark of the game"

hehe Daniel <3

:D 

kingpowa   France. Oct 25 2012 05:09. Posts 1525


  On October 23 2012 21:08 tomson wrote:
Show nested quote +


This article sheds a bit more light on the verdict:
http://www.economist.com/node/21529006

A pretty interesting case. I dont' find the sentence as outrageous as you do though, because I feel like it all comes down to deciding whether there was negligence. Obviously the judge thought there was and 6 years for negligence that led to the death of over 300 people doesn't seem that rough to me.




As said by Marshall, they can't predict an earthquake they can just assess a probability of it occurring within a time. The politics are the one who next decide whether there should be an evacuation or not.
Considering the occurrence of such earthquakes (for example one every 500 years), they can give a probability of it occurring : the more the time has passed since the last earthquake, the more probable it gets to happen. They also take into account the recent activity, in this case, the "little earthquakes" increased the probability. So it may have got from 1/10000 to 1/100 which is 100 more probable but still not high. Who is able to decide if you evacuate so many people ?
And, the constructions in the area were far to have been built within the standard condition for seismological risks.

The earthquake studies lies on data collection to assess probabilities. So they need big samples to study it. But luckily there are no such earthquakes every morning which makes it impossible to predict it.

Moreover, those scientists are part of a volunteer commission. Who will next make part of such commissions ? surely not competent scientists.

sorry for shitty english. 

Baalim   Mexico. Oct 27 2012 21:35. Posts 34246


  On October 24 2012 23:54 MARSHALL28 wrote:
whether or not there was negligence? first .. we don't have the capacity to predict earthquakes, putting them in jail seems to suggest that we do. i just dont see how we can send people to jail for not doing a job they were not qualified for in the first place.

and who are these idiots who stayed in their houses in the middle of an earthquake just because somebody on TV said it wouldn't be dangerous? seems like their own fault to me.

this is pretty appalling. i would def feel wronged if this happened to me.




It depends on why they said it, if they said it because the government pressured them into saying that to calm people then they are guilty of negligence and deserve jail (along with anybody who pressured them obv)

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

Worance   United States. Oct 27 2012 22:40. Posts 4

That is why you have to love poker! Also, one of the main reasons I have just started to learn the game. I mean common, how many other jobs out there can potentially make you so much money from lazing around at home.


casinocasino   Canada. Oct 28 2012 06:19. Posts 3343

Really upset me when people get fucked by poor legal system.. I mean how can you even sentence 6 years? i mean i can understand 6 month - 12 maybe. fire the management, get new employees, up your level of living but how can you jail the people and make them socially disabled possibly forever.

I mean my belief is that every country is flawed in its own ways. and poker players are fairly blessed by being able to practice their hobby in many countries; so if you don't like your country then you can relocate to a better quality of life... (which is probably what i am most likely to do)


GameOverNoob   Canada. Oct 28 2012 06:41. Posts 961

Ghost company?

Searched google and couldn't find anything.

Just curious





@lehgoboyLast edit: 28/10/2012 06:58

Nazgul    Netherlands. Oct 28 2012 11:16. Posts 7080

There are definitely explanations where making mistakes in your job leading to death, should get you convicted for negligence. It's incredibly tricky because clearly any human should be allowed to make mistakes in their job. Negligence is not the same as a regular mistake however. If potentially your negligence was part of the reason 300 people died, then that needs to be looked into further and rightfully could lead to a conviction. I'm not going to bother looking into this case more than that article, so don't take this as a judgment on whether or not this was right.

You almost twin-caracked his AK - JonnyCosmo 

MARSHALL28   United States. Oct 28 2012 17:27. Posts 1897

what kind of message do you guys think this sends to smart people interested in getting into this kind of profession?

1 of my good friends is in the process of becoming a high school teacher and he's constantly telling me all these horror stories about things he's learning happened to other teachers. 1 guy had some HS girl come onto him, and when he told her it was inappropriate and to stop, she told everybody that he came onto her. he lost his job and was put in jail.

some gym teacher told one child he could walk to the water fountain ~5 minutes away. while unattended, the child got injured. the teacher was fired and sued for negligence.

i would never become a teacher if i continued to hear stuff like this was happening. there's always a way for them to screw you when you haven't done anything wrong.


KoeBawlt   Canada. Oct 28 2012 17:37. Posts 378


  On October 28 2012 16:27 MARSHALL28 wrote:
what kind of message do you guys think this sends to smart people interested in getting into this kind of profession?

1 of my good friends is in the process of becoming a high school teacher and he's constantly telling me all these horror stories about things he's learning happened to other teachers. 1 guy had some HS girl come onto him, and when he told her it was inappropriate and to stop, she told everybody that he came onto her. he lost his job and was put in jail.

some gym teacher told one child he could walk to the water fountain ~5 minutes away. while unattended, the child got injured. the teacher was fired and sued for negligence.

i would never become a teacher if i continued to hear stuff like this was happening. there's always a way for them to screw you when you haven't done anything wrong.



A friend told me about a guy who played poker for a living and got 100k in dept. I'm never gonna play poker for a living

o and when has a paedophile not said the kid was coming onto them?

Disclaimer Im bad butLast edit: 28/10/2012 17:52

 



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