10/20 rly weird hand - Page 2

he had ako

What's your thought process for betting on the turn??

Anyway when he min raises you on the river and leave 1020 behind, I doubt he's ever bluffing here, so probably folding is better

min raise was turn, I think I would shove a lot here, or else what's the point of even 4betting ATo if we're gonna play it like that on this board :/

Haven't read second page yet, so don't know if you reveal results or not...but the turn raise seems like a typical live raise "to see what you have" or something with a hand that he considers ahead of your bluffs and weak-average holdings and behind your average-strong holdings. He expects you to fold a lot of your average range that is ahead of him. So I shove there 100% and expect to see folds.

Also, this might be completely off, but I see an interesting case for range narrowing here. I think 2 things are true about his hand here.
1. What I said above.
2. His pre-flop raising range is polarized between genuinely strong stuff and very speculative hands. I think it isn't unreasonable for a 3rd vs UTG PFR, even given aggro dynamic.

If you combine these two together, two things happen.
1. You eliminate made Tx and Jx hands from his range. If my polarized assumption is correct, they aren't in his 3-betting range.
2. My point above raising with a hand that beats up to weak-average hands means that he has weak Jx and Tx hands in his range and AK and AQ.
3. Combine the two, and you are left with AK and AQ.
4. Given that I think AQ doesn't 3bet you as much as AK, I think his hand here has to be mostly AK and sometimes AQ.

This read also explains call on flop. He's drawing to 10 outs. 8-9 if he is worried about the A helping you some of the time.

Anyway, my main point here is that it seems to me that this villain is playing his hand sort of face up and you can do a better job at analyzing the situation if you try to think of it as, "hey, he is looking at his cards and making this play, so what's he got?" instead of treating him as if he's got HEM open to help him. This isn't an online hand and 10/20 live for 3.2k isn't so high that you run into sickos who think about ranges and contingencies for every situation in life while staring at nothing but green felt. Imo the dude's a live regfish, so own him plz.

But then again, I could be way off, and MARSHALL's multilevel thinking about complex image crap might actually apply.

EDIT: oh kew ako

On December 03 2012 23:08 phexac wrote: 2. His pre-flop raising range is polarized between genuinely strong stuff and very speculative hands. I think it isn't unreasonable for a 3rd vs UTG PFR, even given aggro dynamic. If you combine these two together, two things happen. 1. You eliminate made Tx and Jx hands from his range. If my polarized assumption is correct, they aren't in his 3-betting range.

Why would his pre-flop raising range be polarized from mid position? Why would anybody's be for that matter?

On December 16 2012 04:15 HungarianGOD wrote: Show nested quote + On December 03 2012 23:08 phexac wrote: 2. His pre-flop raising range is polarized between genuinely strong stuff and very speculative hands. I think it isn't unreasonable for a 3rd vs UTG PFR, even given aggro dynamic. If you combine these two together, two things happen. 1. You eliminate made Tx and Jx hands from his range. If my polarized assumption is correct, they aren't in his 3-betting range. Why would his pre-flop raising range be polarized from mid position? Why would anybody's be for that matter?

It's generally more polarized because you cannot 3bet stuff like 88/99/TT/AJ for value against a tight UTG range except with very aggressive history. So you're left with a relatively narrow range of premium hands for value and then whatever you decide to bluff with. Since a lot of the middling hands that I mentioned prefer to call, you are left with weaker/more speculative hands to bluff with, therefore more polarized.