[POLL]Your religion? - Page 5

there is so little that separates lp from 4chan

I personally dont understand why people would put their faith in a imaginary supreme power instead of putting it somewhere where it actually would be useful like... you know .. in other people

On August 11 2012 04:44 FarmMylife wrote: I went to a Roman Catholic School for 13 years and went to church every weekend until I moved out on my own. Not a single teacher ever told us evolution was wrong or that God actually created the world in 7 days. YES there are religious people out there that believe these things and it really is sad that they truly believe these things. The Nincene Creed (basically the pledge of allegiance for Catholics) does not state any of those things, so when a Catholic person says I believe that God created the earth in 7 days because its required by my faith has no idea what they are actually talking about. I was never once told by a religious figure to take anything out of the Bible as literal. Noahs Ark, Job getting swallowed by a whale and living, or Jesus feeding hundreds of people with only a couple loaves of bread are pretty far fetched stories in our times with our understanding of the world today. They had a message behind them that the author dressed up to sound more interesting. Most people I know share that are religious share this view. Its about the message of the story thats important not the actual story itself. To generalize people based on what the believe is the sames as generalizing some ine based on the colour of there skin.

So what you just said means the bible is just as good as Don Quixote .... or any other book which can be interpretated ... and this in no way sounds retarded to you srsly, obv you are right but the whole idea is so silly im not even sure if its silly or sad? There are probably millions of books you could read, get the sub-text and become a better person because of it ... you dont see a religion based on each one of them do you ?

I personally could care less what anyone believes and didn't even bother voting in the poll. Organized religion is the problem. It has caused more death and destruction than any force in human history. When people get together in groups and talk about their "holy book" the stupid switch goes off in their heads.

you guys are funny.

btw - good luck using rationale to sway (educate?) anyones opinion in matters like this. all you're doing is wearing out your keyboard.

that being said, good luck!

Let me ask you this way. There are billions of galaxies with billions of stars in each and every one of them. Is it very likely we humans are the only and/or most intelligent lifeform in this universe? I would say chances are slim to almost none. We know that life exists here and we know that roughly similar circumstances as ours, are very likely to exist, just because of the incredible amount of galaxies and stars out there.

Only a 5% change in the DNA makes the difference between a monkey and a human. Would we even be able to comprehend or see a lifeform with far superior intelligence than ours? I think not. Go back 100 years in time with todays knowledge, and you would be like a god to them.

Is it likely some lifeform out there is more than 100 years ahead of us, in this nine billion years old universe where humans only have existed for what amounts to a split second? If life does exist elsewhere, it is almost certain some of it is ahead of us in development, and if we go with our "earthly" knowledge about development and evolution, just a few hundred years headstart would make them so advanced, we would not be able to comprehend it, maybe we couldn't even see them. For all practical purposes they would be like gods to us..

On August 11 2012 05:58 Spitfiree wrote: I personally dont understand why people would put their faith in a imaginary supreme power instead of putting it somewhere where it actually would be useful like... you know .. in other people Show nested quote + On August 11 2012 04:44 FarmMylife wrote: I went to a Roman Catholic School for 13 years and went to church every weekend until I moved out on my own. Not a single teacher ever told us evolution was wrong or that God actually created the world in 7 days. YES there are religious people out there that believe these things and it really is sad that they truly believe these things. The Nincene Creed (basically the pledge of allegiance for Catholics) does not state any of those things, so when a Catholic person says I believe that God created the earth in 7 days because its required by my faith has no idea what they are actually talking about. I was never once told by a religious figure to take anything out of the Bible as literal. Noahs Ark, Job getting swallowed by a whale and living, or Jesus feeding hundreds of people with only a couple loaves of bread are pretty far fetched stories in our times with our understanding of the world today. They had a message behind them that the author dressed up to sound more interesting. Most people I know share that are religious share this view. Its about the message of the story thats important not the actual story itself. To generalize people based on what the believe is the sames as generalizing some ine based on the colour of there skin. So what you just said means the bible is just as good as Don Quixote .... or any other book which can be interpretated ... and this in no way sounds retarded to you srsly, obv you are right but the whole idea is so silly im not even sure if its silly or sad? There are probably millions of books you could read, get the sub-text and become a better person because of it ... you dont see a religion based on each one of them do you ?

I would add that what first comes to mind when talking about bible's "messages" are those of hatred, vengeance, racism, mysoginy...

For example: "Take my daughter and my friend's concubine and rape them!" ;D

http://rarebible.wordpress.com/2009/0...d-my-friends-concubine-and-rape-them/

On August 11 2012 20:23 Zorglub wrote: Let me ask you this way. There are billions of galaxies with billions of stars in each and every one of them. Is it very likely we humans are the only and/or most intelligent lifeform in this universe? I would say chances are slim to almost none. We know that life exists here and we know that roughly similar circumstances as ours, are very likely to exist, just because of the incredible amount of galaxies and stars out there. Only a 5% change in the DNA makes the difference between a monkey and a human. Would we even be able to comprehend or see a lifeform with far superior intelligence than ours? I think not. Go back 100 years in time with todays knowledge, and you would be like a god to them. Is it likely some lifeform out there is more than 100 years ahead of us, in this nine billion years old universe where humans only have existed for what amounts to a split second? If life does exist elsewhere, it is almost certain some of it is ahead of us in development, and if we go with our "earthly" knowledge about development and evolution, just a few hundred years headstart would make them so advanced, we would not be able to comprehend it, maybe we couldn't even see them. For all practical purposes they would be like gods to us..

You can use this argument to take one of two religious positions:

1. We see evidence of God today. However, this evidence is caused by the aliens that are near us, not by God.

2. We do not see evidence of God today (or there is a scientific non-God explanation for that evidence). However, there was evidence in the past and that was because aliens visited us at that time.

Let me then ask you a question: given human nature, how likely is it that we would believe in God and see the evidence or think to see the evidence that we see, even if there was no God and there were no aliens? How likely is it that some such stories or memes would survive until this day and captivate people, even if they were untrue? Do you know about, say, the resemblance of the Christian story to far older myths and legends told by tribal societies? How these stories spread to Egypt and further, getting slightly altered each time, until written down as the story of Christ?

^ LOL did you even read what you linked? Its part if a larger story explaining why why the Isrealites went to war with someone. The old testament was the oral history of the Jews, your taking about a time proably 2500 yrs ago a very brutal and savage time. Of the over 31000 verses in the Bible how many express a message of hate, vengance, or racisism. There are actually many stories of people being immoral then being punished by God then theyhave some epiphany about life. If your a Atheist, don't try to argue the Bible with someone thats actually studied it, stick to the argument you can't prove there is a god/afterlife so no matter what I am wrong.

religion helps people sleep at night. and no matter how smart or civilized we become, its in our nature to kill each other because of scarcity or the appearance thereof.
if everyone accepted that fact there would be in fact less wars and strife. when we die its gg though.

On August 12 2012 02:55 Fudyann wrote: Show nested quote + On August 11 2012 20:23 Zorglub wrote: Let me ask you this way. There are billions of galaxies with billions of stars in each and every one of them. Is it very likely we humans are the only and/or most intelligent lifeform in this universe? I would say chances are slim to almost none. We know that life exists here and we know that roughly similar circumstances as ours, are very likely to exist, just because of the incredible amount of galaxies and stars out there. Only a 5% change in the DNA makes the difference between a monkey and a human. Would we even be able to comprehend or see a lifeform with far superior intelligence than ours? I think not. Go back 100 years in time with todays knowledge, and you would be like a god to them. Is it likely some lifeform out there is more than 100 years ahead of us, in this nine billion years old universe where humans only have existed for what amounts to a split second? If life does exist elsewhere, it is almost certain some of it is ahead of us in development, and if we go with our "earthly" knowledge about development and evolution, just a few hundred years headstart would make them so advanced, we would not be able to comprehend it, maybe we couldn't even see them. For all practical purposes they would be like gods to us.. You can use this argument to take one of two religious positions: 1. We see evidence of God today. However, this evidence is caused by the aliens that are near us, not by God. 2. We do not see evidence of God today (or there is a scientific non-God explanation for that evidence). However, there was evidence in the past and that was because aliens visited us at that time. Let me then ask you a question: given human nature, how likely is it that we would believe in God and see the evidence or think to see the evidence that we see, even if there was no God and there were no aliens? How likely is it that some such stories or memes would survive until this day and captivate people, even if they were untrue? Do you know about, say, the resemblance of the Christian story to far older myths and legends told by tribal societies? How these stories spread to Egypt and further, getting slightly altered each time, until written down as the story of Christ?

I personally believe there is a prime mover, an overmind, from whom every other thing in this universe comes from, and thus is a part of.

It is very likely we would do all the stuff you propose, I am arguing from a purely mathematical/statistical/probability point of view here. Given what we already think we know, it would not be unlikely for a higher intelligence to exist somewhere in the universe, and it would only take a very short headstart for these "ET's" to have a huge godlike advantage over us. Hundred or even a thousand years is nothing when you look at the age of the universe, but it means a world of difference when you look at development and technology.

Honestly I can see that believing in God and heavan from a logical or scientific point of view is kind or retarded. However if I try to get to heaven by doing good things I am not really hurting anyone. When I die if I was right then all is good and I end up in heaven, if the athiest was right then it wont matter anyways because I wont know.

my past was totally ignored by idiots bashing atheist so here it goes again.


You are all fucking "atheist" (i know im using the word wrong here) about many things, do you declare that you dont know if unicorns, pegasus and lepperchauns exists?... No you fucking dont unless you aren an idiot, you are not agnostic about them, why you are about a god?.

We have exactly the same amount of evidence for unicorns than for god, why is it reasonable to assume there is no big foot but it is rasonable to assume there is a white bearded man on the sky?

DAMN! IT LOOKS LIKE ALL SINNERS TOOK SHELTER ON LP

On August 12 2012 05:10 Baalim wrote: my past was totally ignored by idiots bashing atheist so here it goes again. You are all fucking "atheist" (i know im using the word wrong here) about many things, do you declare that you dont know if unicorns, pegasus and lepperchauns exists?... No you fucking dont unless you aren an idiot, you are not agnostic about them, why you are about a god?. We have exactly the same amount of evidence for unicorns than for god, why is it reasonable to assume there is no big foot but it is rasonable to assume there is a white bearded man on the sky?

Baal could you please try and answer a few questions from me in the most reasonable logical/scientific manner you can and without flaming?

I would like to hear your explaination, but not if you start flaming like you usually do, please keep your temperement down and lets discuss this like adults.

Where does thoughts originate from?

How can you know and not know in the same time? (Your mind can discover/come up with something new, you supposedly didn't know before)

According to science was everything that happened after the big bang determined by natural laws? If the same big bang happened again, would the exact same sequence of events take place again?

On August 12 2012 03:31 FarmMylife wrote: Honestly I can see that believing in God and heavan from a logical or scientific point of view is kind or retarded. However if I try to get to heaven by doing good things I am not really hurting anyone. When I die if I was right then all is good and I end up in heaven, if the athiest was right then it wont matter anyways because I wont know.

yet there are many scientists who believe in God.

Hell, even Einstein believed:

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

On August 12 2012 06:01 HiyAfOu wrote: yet there are many scientists who believe in God. Hell, even Einstein believed

Finish that sentence instead of being a misleading weasel. Einstein quotes that make it clear that make it clear he was no fool:

"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one."
"You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."

Einstein was not a theist. He was a unique type of deist that shared the disdain of many for those who claim to know truths that can not be known.

Saying he believes in God when he's not a theist is misleading as fuck.

On August 12 2012 05:48 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On August 12 2012 05:10 Baalim wrote: my past was totally ignored by idiots bashing atheist so here it goes again. You are all fucking "atheist" (i know im using the word wrong here) about many things, do you declare that you dont know if unicorns, pegasus and lepperchauns exists?... No you fucking dont unless you aren an idiot, you are not agnostic about them, why you are about a god?. We have exactly the same amount of evidence for unicorns than for god, why is it reasonable to assume there is no big foot but it is rasonable to assume there is a white bearded man on the sky? Baal could you please try and answer a few questions from me in the most reasonable logical/scientific manner you can and without flaming? I would like to hear your explaination, but not if you start flaming like you usually do, please keep your temperement down and lets discuss this like adults. Where does thoughts originate from? How can you know and not know in the same time? (Your mind can discover/come up with something new, you supposedly didn't know before) According to science was everything that happened after the big bang determined by natural laws? If the same big bang happened again, would the exact same sequence of events take place again?

I dont think im qualified to answer those questions accurately, but ill try my best.

Our toughts originate from electric impulses in our neurons, kind of how computers "think", in a near future AI will match and surpass our intelligence, thoughts generated ellectrically in the same way.

I dont understand your second question, how can you not know and know? elaborate plz.

The third question i am totally not qualified to answer, natural laws like time and gravity were created at the time of the big bang afaik, and if the factors for the big bang are absolutely identical to the last quark i think it would repeat the same patter exactly again, could be totally wrong on this one, its just my semi-educated guess.

What does this have to do with god?

On August 12 2012 06:01 HiyAfOu wrote: Show nested quote + On August 12 2012 03:31 FarmMylife wrote: Honestly I can see that believing in God and heavan from a logical or scientific point of view is kind or retarded. However if I try to get to heaven by doing good things I am not really hurting anyone. When I die if I was right then all is good and I end up in heaven, if the athiest was right then it wont matter anyways because I wont know. yet there are many scientists who believe in God. Hell, even Einstein believed: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

98% of nobel prize winner in hard sciences are atheists/agnostics.

I honestly dont understand what goes through the mind of a theist hearing that number, how can they explain it, if i were told that when i believed in god it would have created great conflict in my beliefs, i mean pretty much all the bright minds in the world dont believe in god, that gotta ring some bells.

My only onclussion is that theist do not even try to find the truth, so they just somehow block whatever evidence that doesnt match their irrational view of the world

On August 12 2012 06:01 HiyAfOu wrote: Show nested quote + On August 12 2012 03:31 FarmMylife wrote: Honestly I can see that believing in God and heavan from a logical or scientific point of view is kind or retarded. However if I try to get to heaven by doing good things I am not really hurting anyone. When I die if I was right then all is good and I end up in heaven, if the athiest was right then it wont matter anyways because I wont know. yet there are many scientists who believe in God. Hell, even Einstein believed: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

Seriously? did you just quote a page which has this quote on galileo galilei? "After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts."

Further, with the exception of Einstein and Planck, every scientist mentioned lived in a time and age where atheism wasn't a viable choice.

AND, considering you explicitly mention Einstein, he only believed in a spinozan type of god, which is something you will never see atheists in strict opposition to. It's the "personal" god, the intervening god, the god who condemns or blesses you with hell or heaven, that is subject to atheist ridicule.

On August 12 2012 05:48 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On August 12 2012 05:10 Baalim wrote: my past was totally ignored by idiots bashing atheist so here it goes again. You are all fucking "atheist" (i know im using the word wrong here) about many things, do you declare that you dont know if unicorns, pegasus and lepperchauns exists?... No you fucking dont unless you aren an idiot, you are not agnostic about them, why you are about a god?. We have exactly the same amount of evidence for unicorns than for god, why is it reasonable to assume there is no big foot but it is rasonable to assume there is a white bearded man on the sky? Baal could you please try and answer a few questions from me in the most reasonable logical/scientific manner you can and without flaming? I would like to hear your explaination, but not if you start flaming like you usually do, please keep your temperement down and lets discuss this like adults. Where does thoughts originate from? How can you know and not know in the same time? (Your mind can discover/come up with something new, you supposedly didn't know before) According to science was everything that happened after the big bang determined by natural laws? If the same big bang happened again, would the exact same sequence of events take place again?

Those are questions which currently are unanswerable to any degree of certainty.

But I'll try to address a line of reasoning i suspect you may be using (if im wrong apologies!)

Is there a need for some form of external causation to give rise to things, whether it be existence, conciousness, the universe, physical laws, etc. and can this in a detatched way be considered a higher intelligence, power or force, external or not contingent on the universe.

If your reasoning in postulating this is in partly based in "there is a huge amount of things we do not understand about out universe, its laws and aspects within it" then this is almost self defeating as while you may dismiss claims of "it is likely there is no ultimate force behind our existence" on such a basis, claims of "it is likely there is an ultimate cause, higher intelligence behind our existence" are equally undermined.

It is this reason largely why i am agnostic in regards to "god" in the most detatched sense.

to any form of religion, claims of his character, being, nature of what he, it, she, they might be or otherwise I am staunchly atheist.

Or to surmise I am receptive to the notion that some external or pre-existent cause may be neccesary for our existence, although our lack of scientific understanding makes this by no means whatsoever clear. But religion and all things even palely resembling it are bullshit. - in my own humble opinion