KeanuReaver United States. Aug 08 2012 22:52. Posts 2022
On August 08 2012 21:19 Syntax wrote:
You can't be between atheist and agnostic as i attempted to explain in my previous post. Agnosticism has to do with whether or not something could be known. The idea of agnosticism is on an entirely different plain than whether or not you hold a belief in a god or not. Agnosticism has to do with KNOWLEDGE which is not in the same realm as BELIEF. (or lack thereof) So for example, you'd be an agnostic-atheist, Keanu. Which means you lack the belief in a god, but also assert that one can not possibly know for certain.
Agnosticism is not a middle ground between belief and unbelief.
I think I stopped believing in god as soon as I realised Santa wasn't real
edit: Not even joking, was right around that time-frame. Essentially when I realised there was no tooth-fairy, leprechauns, etc. Looking back, was a pretty demoralizing time of my life. But kids don't give a shit, they just go outside and play street-hockey or go on a bike ride.
Last edit: 09/08/2012 14:20
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TalentedTom Canada. Aug 09 2012 16:58. Posts 20070
i stopped believing when I started taking a bunch of science / physics courses, seemed irrational that such a powerful being would care about something so insignificant as our planet. That being said it's not impossible, but worshiping god is ridiculous (via prayer, sacrifice, ritual etc..) The way I started thinking about it is would I care if a bunch of ants build me a monument and have weekly gathering to worship me
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us and as we let our own lights shine we unconsciously give other people permision to do the same
Atheism isn't a religion, the question posed is sort of a paradox. Athiest, means literally, without god(s). Or without belief. So if I am an athiest, then I probably don't have a religion.
Anyways, I used to think religion was good as a whole. As it can bring people hope and other emotional support crutches. But I am starting to think that it is actually a plague on humanity. On the other hand, there are a lot of stupid people (at least 3 billion and counting, statistically speaking anyways). A lot of these people need a religion to keep them from doing stupid shit and ruining it for others. On the another-other hand (octopus), some 90%+ of wars and crap are based on some religious bullshit.
Here is a simple example in a less violent way; Tell an atheist their lack of faith is disturbing and they probably won't give a shit. Tell a theist that their faith is disturbing and they will get aggressive and/or defensive about it.
On August 10 2012 01:37 SpoR wrote:
A lot of these people need a religion to keep them from doing stupid shit and ruining it for others.
Lol yeah what we definitely need to do is delude ourselves that poor people will just peacefully take up religions without then attacking/harassing/raping people of other religions.
Poor people don't have the civility nor education to know not to follow the genocidal instructions in many of the religions we push on them.
Atheistm is not about the possiblity of a god, we simply belive there is no reason to assume there is, if there is no reason or evidence or logic to assume the existance of nothing, the default position is to NOT believe it.
Its exactly the same position you have in regards to unicorns.
kinda interesting, i felt that a few years back there was this same exact thread on lp, and the atheism had much less ground.
i have a question though, in your opinion would an atheist world/nation be a better one? would there not still be assholes, manipulators, ignorant people? and after skimming through some of the more philosophy threads is religion any worse than any other illusion we need to live through life? can it not be equated to rikD's music, movies, evoo fish, orgasm?
also, being a condescending atheist who actively makes fun of religion is no better than a homosexual hating christian. both impede in the lives of others with a mask of providing enlightenment but truly hurt others in a self serving, self congratulatory way.
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TheHuHu3 United States. Aug 10 2012 06:57. Posts 5544
Brapism.
TheHuHu4 coming soon :)
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Liquid`Drone Norway. Aug 10 2012 07:10. Posts 3096
religion normally isn't the cause of wars. it's rather one of the more frequent ways for warring factions to assemble. Not to say there wouldn't be more unity without religion or if everyone believed in the same thing, but in mostly all "religious conflicts" the conflict is actually caused by one group controlling an unproportional amount of resources/power. Ethnic conflicts are the same. And if there's an absense of ethnical or religious division, then people still manage to identify as part of a "class" and then proceed warring based on the perception that they should have more.
IF resources were evenly distributed, you wouldn't have religious nor ethnical conflicts (at least not of any "serious" magnitude), but as it is, in areas with religious strife and tension tend to have one wealthier, christian segment of the population, and one more impoverished, larger, islamic segment. Back in the day, jews were scapegoated because they were disproportionally wealthy and powerful. etc. Struggle for resources/power is virtually always the main cause of a conflict, religion/ethnicity is secondary.
On August 10 2012 01:37 SpoR wrote:
A lot of these people need a religion to keep them from doing stupid shit and ruining it for others.
Lol yeah what we definitely need to do is delude ourselves that poor people will just peacefully take up religions without then attacking/harassing/raping people of other religions.
Poor people don't have the civility nor education to know not to follow the genocidal instructions in many of the religions we push on them.
What is this religion that you speak of that says go kill all the other guys? On a side note though stumbled on a pretty good article from Vice in regards to Atheists
On August 10 2012 09:29 FarmMylife wrote:
What is this religion that you speak of that says go kill all the other guys? On a side note though stumbled on a pretty good article from Vice in regards to Atheists
It's definitely not Christianity nor Islam. Nowhere in the Bible nor Quran is any such thing idolized, encouraged or demanded.
On August 10 2012 06:10 Liquid`Drone wrote:
but in mostly all "religious conflicts" the conflict is actually caused by one group controlling an unproportional amount of resources/power.
Boy are you going to be pissed to see how wrong you are when you get knowledgeable on the Sunni/Shia fiasco at both the micro and macro levels in many other-wise semi-civilized areas.
Last edit: 10/08/2012 11:14
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Stroggoz New Zealand. Aug 10 2012 11:16. Posts 5365
On August 09 2012 15:58 TalentedTom wrote:
i stopped believing when I started taking a bunch of science / physics courses, seemed irrational that such a powerful being would care about something so insignificant as our planet. That being said it's not impossible, but worshiping god is ridiculous (via prayer, sacrifice, ritual etc..) The way I started thinking about it is would I care if a bunch of ants build me a monument and have weekly gathering to worship me
i've always thought that if there was something that created the universe, it could be a bunch of degen gods that design their own life forms/galaxies, and compete with each other, taking bets on which life forms will reach space travel first, ect.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
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the cleaner Germany. Aug 10 2012 12:13. Posts 3014
On August 10 2012 09:29 FarmMylife wrote:
What is this religion that you speak of that says go kill all the other guys? On a side note though stumbled on a pretty good article from Vice in regards to Atheists
It's definitely not Christianity nor Islam. Nowhere in the Bible nor Quran is any such thing idolized, encouraged or demanded.
Surah Al-Ankabut verse 46 states:
And dispute not with the People of the Book, except with means better than mere disputation, unless I be with those of them who inflict wrong and injury, but say to them: "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him that we bow." (Quran 29:46)
Prophet Muhammad sent a message to the monks of Saint Catherine's Monastery, Mount Sinai:
"This is a message written by Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, far and near, we are behind them. Verily, I defend them by myself, the servants, the helpers, and my followers, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be changed from their jobs, nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they (Christians) are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, this is not to take place without her own wish. She is not to be prevented from going to her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation is to disobey this covenant till the Day of Judgment and the end of the world.”
This is a fairly clear message in the Islamic faith, Jews and Christians were protected and are still are today in many largely Islamic Countries. Just look at what happened in Egypt
Christianity is a little different in regards to what Jesus's message was in regards to other religions. All branches of Judaism believe that one day some guy will come along and bring peace to humanity blah blah blah. Jesus was a Jew that said hey I am that guy, so when it talks about Jesus in the bible saying you gotta believe in me otherwise your screwed you gotta take it in the context of who he was talking to, as he mostly preached to Jews.
So please enlighten me where in the New Testament or the Quran that says go out and wipe all the non-believers off the face of the earth? I find it frustrating that Atheist come to this logical conclusion that there is no god or religion and then come to a completely illogical conclusion that anyone that does believe in a religion is just an uneducated moron
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Liquid`Drone Norway. Aug 10 2012 12:56. Posts 3096
On August 10 2012 01:37 SpoR wrote:
A lot of these people need a religion to keep them from doing stupid shit and ruining it for others.
Lol yeah what we definitely need to do is delude ourselves that poor people will just peacefully take up religions without then attacking/harassing/raping people of other religions.
Poor people don't have the civility nor education to know not to follow the genocidal instructions in many of the religions we push on them.
What is this religion that you speak of that says go kill all the other guys? On a side note though stumbled on a pretty good article from Vice in regards to Atheists
On August 10 2012 09:29 FarmMylife wrote:
What is this religion that you speak of that says go kill all the other guys? On a side note though stumbled on a pretty good article from Vice in regards to Atheists
It's definitely not Christianity nor Islam. Nowhere in the Bible nor Quran is any such thing idolized, encouraged or demanded.
On August 10 2012 06:10 Liquid`Drone wrote:
but in mostly all "religious conflicts" the conflict is actually caused by one group controlling an unproportional amount of resources/power.
Boy are you going to be pissed to see how wrong you are when you get knowledgeable on the Sunni/Shia fiasco at both the micro and macro levels in many other-wise semi-civilized areas.
Sunni's and Shias are virtually identical in terms of religious beliefs, their key difference is with regards to leadership. So that actually just proves my point that religion isn't the cause for strife, but that it functions as a way to group larger segments of the population as supporters of a or b. If you seriously think that people want to wage war on another group of people because those people face a slightly different way when praying or because they conduct different pilgrimages or because they choose to highlight some different texts.. then I dunno what to say without breaching my personal rule of not insulting those I argue with. which I guess is kind of an insult, fuck.
On August 10 2012 09:29 FarmMylife wrote:
What is this religion that you speak of that says go kill all the other guys?
It's definitely not Christianity nor Islam. Nowhere in the Bible nor Quran is any such thing idolized, encouraged or demanded.
So please enlighten me where in the New Testament or the Quran that says go out and wipe all the non-believers off the face of the earth?
I rarely get this upset at trolls but seriously, are you fucking retarded or are you a troll?
You expect me to converse with you after you reply with ridiculous, frivolous nonsense like this?
Tell me where the fuck I said anything of the sort you fucking moron.
Do people often bother speaking to you? I'm having a hard time imagining that they do.
I never even mentioned the New Testament, but it is funny how you specifically extracted only the New Testament
from the word 'Bible', but that's evidence of you being a fucking moron that it is impossible to converse with for another day.
On August 10 2012 12:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Sunni's and Shias are virtually identical in terms of religious beliefs, their key difference is with regards to leadership. So that actually just proves my point that religion isn't the cause for strife, but that it functions as a way to group larger segments of the population as supporters of a or b. If you seriously think that people want to wage war on another group of people because those people face a slightly different way when praying or because they conduct different pilgrimages or because they choose to highlight some different texts.. then I dunno what to say without breaching my personal rule of not insulting those I argue with. which I guess is kind of an insult, fuck.
I am speechless that you are this ignorant, and willfully so.
Go read some books, listen to people discussing this, read some articles or grab Skype buddies
whose cousins have been murdered because of a religious divide and talk to them about what they feel is the source of this strife.
Read what the religious leaders of these differing sects say about the reasons for their assassination squads... fuck. Just do anything except be willfully ignorant.
Do you think that you are the first person to have the opinion that this just boils down to a political clash or something?
And no, Sunnis and Shias are not virtually identical in terms of religious beliefs.
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Canada. Aug 09 2012 16:58. Posts 20070
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