Strikeforce: Tate vs. Rousey - Page 4

The problem I have with judo throws/trips is that theres a lot of variance. In theory the judo user should have a dominate position like sidecontrols but the way the opponent lands can get wild with a lot of scambling. Like most recently I remember Dong kim did a judo throw and he wound up on the bottom.

I see wrestling as a safer way to get your opponent down to the ground. You're always going to be in top position and in the opponents full guard but just the way they land makes sweeps very hard

Rousey needs to chill with the way she executes armbars. I mean give the other fighter some time to tap out and shit.

^ She does, which is what makes it even harder to watch at times. This is the 2nd arm she's damaged in a row.

The reason why she doesn't let go until the referee stops it, (which is what you're supposed to do), is because in her first Strikeforce match against Sarah D'Alelio, she did a flying armbar and she felt D'Alelio's arm pop and heard her scream, Rousey then said to the ref that she tapped and the fight was stopped. D'Alelio said she was fine after the fight was over and acted like it was a bad call, but if you're in a submission and you speak out and say something, you lose the fight, it's called a verbal submission. D'Alelio did scream something out while in the submission. (The referee doesn't know if you're just saying "ouch" or "help", or cant get your words out at all.)

Her fight vs. Julia Budd was an accident, Budd had tapped, but the way the fighters were angled didn't let the referee see the tap so either one of the fighters flipped over and Ronda still had the armbar in tight and then she bent it even further back and Budd tapped again. The referee, Kim Winslow, is notorious for bad reffing though.

Miesha Tate didn't want to tap as you could see with the first armbar, then with the second armbar she didn't want to tap until it was already too late. I was expecting the referee to stop it, but he was apparently too newbie to notice the arm going the other way, ala Mir vs. Big Nog #2.

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rofl...

I went to check Rousey's twitter, and noticed she posted 14 hours ago "okay, this is my last tweet before the fight, if you wanna buy "rowdy wear" its now on sale here: http://www.rondamma.com/store/ "
She was already selling t-shirts as her being the champion.

I think this is the 3rd time she's broken an arm in her career of less than 7 fights? pretty suspect that it's all her opponents fault of not tapping out.

Rousey will you marry me...

On March 04 2012 00:14 PuertoRican wrote: ^ I have no proof, just giving my opinion. I think it's one of those skills that it all depends on who is the person using it. How I look at it is, what is wrestling exactly? Controlling your opponent and getting them to the ground to pin them. If you aren't able to get someone to the ground, you're forced to stand and fight. Judo fighters are usually stand up fighters, some have better submission game than others or just choose to use it more than others while some of them like to stand and bang.

I'm actually on the exact opposite side of the argument. I think that guys like GSP/Koscheck do take Akiyama down if they ever fought, but regardless GSP and Koscheck are not even wrestlers of the caliber that Akiyama was a judo practitioner at.

Karelin in MMA gogo :D

She's 5-0 in her pro career. She messed up the arms of 2 girls (her last 2 fights), for the reason I stated a few posts above.

Like I said, she let go of the armbar in her fight with Sarah D'Alelio, and there was a bunch of controversy afterward. So she said she wouldn't let go of the arm again until the referee stops it, instead of when she feels it pop.

Miesha had the chance to tap, she's the one who let her arm get as bad as it did, but the referee is also partly to blame cuz he could have stopped it when he saw it bending like that, Ronda Rousey was at no point to blame in that fight.

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It seemed fine to me too, but her post fight comment was pretty retarded after you just injure someone. She doesn't need to feel bad or anything but you can at least say it sucks. If she has the image of fucking people up then it's because of comments like that.

On March 03 2012 23:21 f1shcake wrote: too bad cyborg is a rioder. Ronda vs cyborg would have been really interesting.

It would have been a one sided humiliation
If Cyborg was in an Armbar of Rousey she would just pick her up rampage style and slam her.

But most likley she would KO rousey before it even gets to the ground.
Rousey has no stand up skills at all and Cyborg could fight at 145 mans muay thai no problem at all

God forbids she starts going for knee-bars. She'll start retiring people.

I think she's highly entertaining and people needs to start tapping in time. If Tate had any regard for her health she'd tap to that long before. That shit was deep.

Remember how everyone gave GSP shit for not having killer instincts and not putting his knee's tighter vs Hardy?

When someone gets out of it because they just flat out refuse to tap in time they're celebrated as total bad asses, guess what, if you try to be a bad ass against someone who won't have non of it you'll break shit.

I don't really care what you guys think or what Rousey's past history is:

That was so completely and entirely Tate's fault for not tapping.
If you want to try to bridge in the opposite direction and slip out when you have such long arms
and someone has the added benefit of you being stuck in gloves; feel free.
Just know that you are going to break your arm. And it did in this case.

How is it even a question ?
Ofc it was 100% Tates fault.

Tapp or Snap
Its as easy as it gets

if cyborg and rousey fought next month, im setting the line cyborg -175
cyborg is just so much bigger and stronger that i think she can use her strength to keep it standinga decent amount. but fuck ronda is so goddamn good. terrence chan said last night that he thinks ronda is further ahead of her division than jon jones is

do females have like a lower arm strength to body weight ratio, implying a natural weakness towards arm bars? just curious... I know people in men's have won with the same submission like 7 times in a row (guillotine) so many its just the fighter.. but arm bars aren't as common in men's from what I see.

has there been any discussion on this? I almost feel like I brought it up last thread but 2 lazy 2 srch

On March 04 2012 09:58 Daut wrote: if cyborg and rousey fought next month, im setting the line cyborg -175 cyborg is just so much bigger and stronger that i think she can use her strength to keep it standinga decent amount. but fuck ronda is so goddamn good. terrence chan said last night that he thinks ronda is further ahead of her division than jon jones is

i am setting it -350 cyborg

Have u seen how many punches she did eat from Tate ?
She would have been knocked out cold by Cyborg.

Ronda has some nice judo trows and some very good smooth transitions on the ground + a decent armbar
Thats about it.
She has absolutely no standup ...
She shines so bright because female MMA fighters basically do suck a ton. (Kinda like Royce Gracie did shine in early UFC because most guys just sucked compared to todays standard)
Well cyborg however doesnt suck.
She is very good in all aspects

all that flashy ground movement the casual fan is so excited about just did happen because Tate lacks the ability to control on the ground.
Cyborg even on the ground would lay heavy like a rock on her and Rousy wouldnt be ably to do anything near to what she did with Tate

On March 04 2012 10:04 2c0ntent wrote: do females have like a lower arm strength to body weight ratio, implying a natural weakness towards arm bars? just curious... I know people in men's have won with the same submission like 7 times in a row (guillotine) so many its just the fighter.. but arm bars aren't as common in men's from what I see. has there been any discussion on this? I almost feel like I brought it up last thread but 2 lazy 2 srch

ive always thought armbars were a terrible submission. easy to escape from and give up position. rousey is very good at them, but her opponents are not great at defending either

On March 04 2012 12:21 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On March 04 2012 10:04 2c0ntent wrote: do females have like a lower arm strength to body weight ratio, implying a natural weakness towards arm bars? just curious... I know people in men's have won with the same submission like 7 times in a row (guillotine) so many its just the fighter.. but arm bars aren't as common in men's from what I see. has there been any discussion on this? I almost feel like I brought it up last thread but 2 lazy 2 srch ive always thought armbars were a terrible submission. easy to escape from and give up position. rousey is very good at them, but her opponents are not great at defending either

Terrible submission? Most certainly not.
Difficult to master and incorporate into no-gi MMA effectively? Extremely.

From the guard they are a great submission but the reason you'll see much fewer
mounted armbars is that most fighters won't look for it at all because they don't have the skill
to make it +EV.

When you have world class BJJ black belts competing in MMA you do see quite a lot of armbars.
This is because the fighters will be world class BJJ black belts. They pull off mounted armbars in competitions all the time.

+ Show Spoiler +

No-gi & Gi Pan Am champion Gunnar Nelson armbars Alexander Butenko 1st rd instead of
punching him like an idiot

And regarding females being more susceptible to being armbared: I think you're crazy .

Armbars work, and is not a terrible submission.

Giva "The Arm Collector" Santana made his career with armbars, and is now going to be fighting his second match in Bellator pretty soon. (Bellator season 6 is gonna have a ton of good matches)

Some people don't like doing armbars cuz they end up in bottom position if their opponent escapes the armbar. Ronda Rousey showed how she does her armbars in a segment on Inside MMA, she grabs the arm while still sitting up and pulls back with her whole body, which sounds like common sense but I've seen plenty of failed armbar attempts where people aren't doing it right, Joe Rogan has mentioned it a couple times while in a live cast of UFC "he needs to put his legs together, or, he needs to lift his hips more and lean back further".

Once people in the UFC stop fearing the wrestlers getting top position on a failed armbar, will be the day we see more armbars work and possible some more snapped arms by people who wont tap or by people who don't know their own strength like Paul Harris.

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Also, the talk about Cyborg vs. Rousey isn't worth talking about atm, for a few reasons:

1. Cyborg is suspended for 1 year at least from Strikeforce, they haven't said whether she will be able to come back or not, just that she loses her belt and she has to stay away for 1 year.
2. They didn't say what they are doing with the 145 pound women's division, there was rumors of it merging with the 135 pound division but no concrete word yet. Either way, there was not enough women for Cyborg to fight at 145, which is why she didn't defend her belt for over a year.
3. Cyborg fights at 145 and her body is super lean when she fights, so she'd have to drop 10 pounds of pure muscle to make 135.
4. Rousey's stand up is probably the worst I've seen in the women's division at Strikeforce. It got better since her last fight, but it still is really bad and Cyborg would TKO her b4 they got to the ground.

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rofl at her ground and pound, she did the same shit in her sparring video. I think she forgot this was a real fight and not sparring.

Notice how she puts all her body into pulling Tate's arm, I seen someone within a month ago in UFC be in that position and try to pull the other 1 arm with both of his arms instead of using his whole body, and the guy obviously didn't get the arm bar cuz he was only using arm strength instead of full body strength.