offsuit United States. Jan 27 2012 04:34. Posts 152
Look, it's simple. If you lunge at a cop with a large, clearly lethal weapon when surrounded by other cops with guns pointed at you, you deserve everything that happens as a result. Full clip.
On January 25 2012 20:52 Baalim wrote:
drugs dont induce monster strenght rampages actually, a taser that connects properly will inmobilize a man no matter what or how many drugs he has in his bloodstream.
Also its ridiculous to think 10 shots are fine, a cop has to think about protecting himself and others while using the minimum force possible, so its understandable if the cop didnt want to wrestle with a guy with a crowbar but its not justified to empty his clip on his ass, a warning shot, shooting to non lethal zones etc, since when you need 10 shots from a supposedly trained marksman are needed to stop somebody with no guns.
I've heard from a reliable person about a police report where a guy on PCP was causing some kinda trouble...cops go to check it out and he's on a rampage...The drugged out guy took 10 shots to the chest while attacking one of the officers and managed to strangle one to death while the other reloaded and finally finished him off with a shot directly to the heart + brain....
your reliable person is an idiot, drugs dont do that plus for example it is physically impossible for anybody to overcome a taser that connects properly, Adrenaline is by far the chemical to do that kind of stuff and you are already soaking in it when you get in such an stressful situation
skip to 2 mins
Obviously the taser didnt make proper contact with him, he isnt overpowering shit
On January 27 2012 03:34 offsuit wrote:
Look, it's simple. If you lunge at a cop with a large, clearly lethal weapon when surrounded by other cops with guns pointed at you, you deserve everything that happens as a result. Full clip.
So mentally ill people or ppl having psicotic breakdowns deserve to die, no chance to get shot no the leg or tased... death is what they deserve.
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blackjacki2 United States. Jan 27 2012 05:05. Posts 2582
I've heard the same stories about guys on PCP from so many different cops that I am pretty sure they are all repeating the same bullshit stories that are just urban legens that they've heard. I think they are passed down during their training. My favorite one is the guy on PCP that jumps out of a tree and breaks both of his ankles and he runs away from the cops on his shins with his feet flopping around.
On January 27 2012 04:05 blackjacki2 wrote:
I've heard the same stories about guys on PCP from so many different cops that I am pretty sure they are all repeating the same bullshit stories that are just urban legens that they've heard. I think they are passed down during their training. My favorite one is the guy on PCP that jumps out of a tree and breaks both of his ankles and he runs away from the cops on his shins with his feet flopping around.
loooooooool
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qwerty67890 New Zealand. Jan 27 2012 07:28. Posts 14026
On January 27 2012 03:34 offsuit wrote:
Look, it's simple. If you lunge at a cop with a large, clearly lethal weapon when surrounded by other cops with guns pointed at you, you deserve everything that happens as a result. Full clip.
So mentally ill people or ppl having psicotic breakdowns deserve to die, no chance to get shot no the leg or tased... death is what they deserve.
If you got lunged at by a mentally ill person with a weapon, which would you rather your partner did?
remember that you have about 3 seconds to react, youre unarmed at that moment and the offender is swinging distance from your face.
On January 27 2012 03:34 offsuit wrote:
Look, it's simple. If you lunge at a cop with a large, clearly lethal weapon when surrounded by other cops with guns pointed at you, you deserve everything that happens as a result. Full clip.
So mentally ill people or ppl having psicotic breakdowns deserve to die, no chance to get shot no the leg or tased... death is what they deserve.
If you got lunged at by a mentally ill person with a weapon, which would you rather your partner did?
remember that you have about 3 seconds to react, youre unarmed at that moment and the offender is swinging distance from your face.
What i would want in a moment of panic and fearing for my life is absolutely irrelevant to what is right and wrong.
Cops should always try to use minimal force while maintaining their safety, we could argue about opening fire, or even about shooting to the legs or body, but there should be no discussion that 10 shots are way more than needed to stop a man with a crowbar.
Im sorry but you cant use the "better safe than sorry" when you are dealing with human lives
On January 25 2012 20:52 Baalim wrote:
drugs dont induce monster strenght rampages actually, a taser that connects properly will inmobilize a man no matter what or how many drugs he has in his bloodstream.
Also its ridiculous to think 10 shots are fine, a cop has to think about protecting himself and others while using the minimum force possible, so its understandable if the cop didnt want to wrestle with a guy with a crowbar but its not justified to empty his clip on his ass, a warning shot, shooting to non lethal zones etc, since when you need 10 shots from a supposedly trained marksman are needed to stop somebody with no guns.
Cops shoot to kill, not warning shots or non-lethal zones or shoot the weapon out of the suspects hands. This isn't Hollywood. Whether the 2nd cop needed to unload 5 more into the guy after hes already been shot 5 times point-blank is debatable, and hell if you want, you can even debate the use of deadly force here if indeed its clearly a crowbar and the cops can see that, but once the guns are out, its shoot to kill.
Are you taking this from somewhere? i mean are they instructed to always shoot to kill?
If this is true, its unquestiable a retarded procedure, shooting only to kill is ridiculous.
If the other cop needed to unload 5 more rounds is not questionable, a guy with a fucking crowboard shot 5 times is in no way a real threat to a trained cop.
Courses on policing. Pretty sure its uniform practice by all police officers. Gun is last resort and generally speaking police officers use the +1 rule (or something to that extent) in that you use the force one above the suspect's weapons perceived damage. I dont know off hand what weapon is deemed what and what the appropriate response weapon should be in this situation, but I'm 90% sure all cops are trained to shoot for the chest.
And no, it is not a retarded procedure by any means. In fact its probably the only acceptable procedure.
edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force
Dunno if wikipedia is considered the best source of info on this subject, but the paragraph on deadly force pretty much sums it up. The suspect in this case made a threatening gesture with a weapon of some sort in his hand towards the officer. He gets shot. Pretty ABC
he could've easily shot the other cops on the other side the way he was pumping out the rounds from his pistol. again, wtf was up with the dog? him holding the dog while having his pistol drawn/pointed was the reason he seemed to lose control in the first place.
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Liquid`Drone Norway. Jan 28 2012 17:18. Posts 3096
im pretty happy norwegian police is unarmed. to be fair, this is far from the worst case of abusive cop behavior i've seen/heard of, but it's obviously excessive. It's like, somewhere down the line, something went really wrong when people have accepted that cops, who are employed by a government to protect its citizens, are considered "people who are allowed to kill you if you behave in a way that they deem threatening" - e.g. "he was reaching for what I thought was a gun".
obviously, it's not just the fault of the police; if they are regularly put in situations where they might encounter hostile people who might carry concealed weapons, it's inevitable that they sometimes screw up because well, they don't want to risk being shot either, and the way guns function is that you gotta make sure you pull the trigger first. the whole issue is rather one of a cemented us-vs-them mentality formed through decades of way-too-harsh punishment escalating the lenghts people are willing to go to to avoid jail, combined with guns being so frequent that you can't assume someone isn't carrying. it's fucked up, and it'll take decades to fix even if policy-makers make the correct decisions, but the first thing that needs to happen is a complete revamping of the american penal system where the desire to punish is swapped with the desire to rehabilitate. Of course, that's also impossible while the population at large seem indifferent to prison-rape, favour capital punishment, and don't seem to have a problem with having the by far highest incarceration rate in the world.
I mean fair enough, usa isnt TOWERING above countries like say, rwanda. but going down the list, the first actually comparable country, is UK, found in 87th place, with 156 per 100k as opposed to the 743 per 100k found in usa.
Something I find fucking unbelievable is that police are held to zero standards based on their jobs 'harsh requirements for the need of quick reactions in stressful situations'.
Now look at doctors/surgeons. They deal with endless fucking stress/crazy shit and if they make 1 mistake OR just in respect to the person dying because this isn't exact science, they can and are sued to oblivion.
Cops are almost always let free/found within reason, Doctors pay $5k or more a month for malpractice insurance.
The problem isn't that cops are poor at their job, it's that the shit cops don't get worked out of the system fast enough because the cities/states/DA/internal protect them
I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time
On January 27 2012 03:34 offsuit wrote:
Look, it's simple. If you lunge at a cop with a large, clearly lethal weapon when surrounded by other cops with guns pointed at you, you deserve everything that happens as a result. Full clip.
So mentally ill people or ppl having psicotic breakdowns deserve to die, no chance to get shot no the leg or tased... death is what they deserve.
You be a 135 pound female officer in the street with a TASER and a gun,
having a mentally ill person or a psychotic one charging at you with something that can kill you
in one swing - tell me why the hell that you shouldn't or wouldn't pick up your weapon and
fire every single bullet in your clip in an as deadly manner as you possibly can at that person?
Have fun trying to hit a lone arm with your gun or risking missing that one shot you have with your TASER.
On January 27 2012 07:27 Baalim wrote:
Cops should always try to use minimal force while maintaining their safety, we could argue about opening fire, or even about shooting to the legs or body, but there should be no discussion that 10 shots are way more than needed to stop a man with a crowbar.
You would be amazed what people can still do with bullets in their arms.
You would be amazed at how hard it is to truly know if you're hitting the target or not.
Loljk you would be dead....
The actual problem here is the tasercops retardedly laidback attitude and ridiculous rookie mistake. Speculating on what could have happened if he wasn't a moron is pointless though.
On February 19 2009 22:21 Confedrate wrote: i dont get it
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blackjacki2 United States. Jan 28 2012 21:33. Posts 2582
Cops aren't supposed to shoot people unless their lives are in danger, and if their lives are in danger they shouldn't be aiming for somebody's leg. I can't imagine any situation where it would be justified for a cop to just shoot somebody in the knee.
On January 27 2012 03:34 offsuit wrote:
Look, it's simple. If you lunge at a cop with a large, clearly lethal weapon when surrounded by other cops with guns pointed at you, you deserve everything that happens as a result. Full clip.
So mentally ill people or ppl having psicotic breakdowns deserve to die, no chance to get shot no the leg or tased... death is what they deserve.
If you got lunged at by a mentally ill person with a weapon, which would you rather your partner did?
remember that you have about 3 seconds to react, youre unarmed at that moment and the offender is swinging distance from your face.
What i would want in a moment of panic and fearing for my life is absolutely irrelevant to what is right and wrong.
Cops should always try to use minimal force while maintaining their safety, we could argue about opening fire, or even about shooting to the legs or body, but there should be no discussion that 10 shots are way more than needed to stop a man with a crowbar.
Im sorry but you cant use the "better safe than sorry" when you are dealing with human lives
I think the "better safe than sorry" is a perfectly correct assumption. I also think the guy firing the gun is the only one doing the right thing, as the other guy retardedly put himself in melee range of the offender and basically forced his partner to fire.
Edit: In the cops shoes I would definetately take the "better safe than sorry route", wouldn't you do the same?
On January 27 2012 03:34 offsuit wrote:
Look, it's simple. If you lunge at a cop with a large, clearly lethal weapon when surrounded by other cops with guns pointed at you, you deserve everything that happens as a result. Full clip.
So mentally ill people or ppl having psicotic breakdowns deserve to die, no chance to get shot no the leg or tased... death is what they deserve.
If you got lunged at by a mentally ill person with a weapon, which would you rather your partner did?
remember that you have about 3 seconds to react, youre unarmed at that moment and the offender is swinging distance from your face.
What i would want in a moment of panic and fearing for my life is absolutely irrelevant to what is right and wrong.
Cops should always try to use minimal force while maintaining their safety, we could argue about opening fire, or even about shooting to the legs or body, but there should be no discussion that 10 shots are way more than needed to stop a man with a crowbar.
Im sorry but you cant use the "better safe than sorry" when you are dealing with human lives
I just think violent resistance with a potentially deadly weapon and clear intent is not okay. Like, if he didn't have what can only be construed as a weapon in a public location I would agree. If he wasn't resisting and didn't lunge at the cop, I would agree.
The amount of shots may have been excessive. Then again, so might lunging at a cop with a pipe bender in a public location with intent to harm.
there is no "may" its 10 fucking shots dude... if you were a civilian and a burglar broke into your house and you shot him 10 times believe me that you would be in serious trouble in a jury trying to justify 10 shots, a trained cop should be way more accountable about excessive use of force than a civilian
Shoot to kill is 100% standard across departments.
I've seen someone get shot in the leg and still put up a decent fight. Whether this policy is justified or not is obviously a matter of opinion. Intuitively it seems barbaric and wrong but I think there are likely many factors that need to be taken into consideration that aren't obvious to the layman.
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