Nl600 flopped flush - Page 2

Not saying ATs should be a fold. I personally call at least half the time and 3b/fold the rest. It obviously depends who raised the CO and who's in the BB.

On January 08 2012 18:18 AndrewSong wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2012 17:53 TalentedTom wrote:   On January 08 2012 17:27 nolan wrote:   On January 08 2012 15:50 TalentedTom wrote:   On January 08 2012 15:24 nolan wrote: if BB isnt a fish i hate calling preflop here as well with your stacksize. ;-0 I flat here against almost 100% of opponents near 100% of the time id be surprised if this shows a legitimate long term profit vs competent opponents. this comment amazes me, its a super clear +EV spot, I'd say the breakeven point would be like JTs OOP It shouldn't amaze you tom. It's not close to "super clear EV" spot. More like breakeven at best. If you think JTs is breakeven point, you have some preflop leak on your SB.

Agree with this, but I'm also a much bigger nit compared to most regs when it comes to oop flats

what hands u r flatting oop then?

Raising is better sometimes, but flatting is >>>>>> folding and thus super clear +EV.

On January 08 2012 18:18 AndrewSong wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2012 17:53 TalentedTom wrote:   On January 08 2012 17:27 nolan wrote:   On January 08 2012 15:50 TalentedTom wrote:   On January 08 2012 15:24 nolan wrote: if BB isnt a fish i hate calling preflop here as well with your stacksize. ;-0 I flat here against almost 100% of opponents near 100% of the time id be surprised if this shows a legitimate long term profit vs competent opponents. this comment amazes me, its a super clear +EV spot, I'd say the breakeven point would be like JTs OOP It shouldn't amaze you tom. It's not close to "super clear EV" spot. More like breakeven at best. If you think JTs is breakeven point, you have some preflop leak on your SB.

uhh this is a off the top of my head rough estimation for SB flatting ranges vs CO openers

The less chance of the bb squeezing the more +ev the call obv. Theres so many factors that weigh in, I dont think its fair to say that flatting A10s SB vs CO is a "breakeven at best" play. Maybe in highstakes but not mid.

Suited aces make me wet

On January 09 2012 14:41 JonnyCosMo wrote: Suited aces make me wet

this

On January 09 2012 21:52 RoyCe 4otZ wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2012 14:41 JonnyCosMo wrote: Suited aces make me wet this

What she said

On January 08 2012 18:18 AndrewSong wrote: Show nested quote + On January 08 2012 17:53 TalentedTom wrote:   On January 08 2012 17:27 nolan wrote:   On January 08 2012 15:50 TalentedTom wrote:   On January 08 2012 15:24 nolan wrote: if BB isnt a fish i hate calling preflop here as well with your stacksize. ;-0 I flat here against almost 100% of opponents near 100% of the time id be surprised if this shows a legitimate long term profit vs competent opponents. this comment amazes me, its a super clear +EV spot, I'd say the breakeven point would be like JTs OOP It shouldn't amaze you tom. It's not close to "super clear EV" spot. More like breakeven at best. If you think JTs is breakeven point, you have some preflop leak on your SB.

I know you are gonna get outplayed a decent amount of the time, and at least at my level check fold often on a good portion of flops. But i feel like you get yourself into so many dominant spots vs a reg co open range. Probably a overly simplistic view, but between dominant spots, and varying up your flop play I feel like its easy to show a profit here at least up to 400nl. (with ATs)

On January 08 2012 15:12 AndrewSong wrote: as standard I don't think check/raise on this flop texture as SB vs button raise+BB is optimal. It's a flop where button will fire 100% or very high c-bet and specially with a mark on the BB, you wouldn't want to squeeze him out with your hand. Leading is the best play here. Even if BB isn't the mark, wind would need very strong hand to call your raise on the flop and give you more action on the turn.

c/r seems silly to me as well. It's interesting that you said you like leading the flop. What other hands would you lead here with for balance? I tend to take passive lines with all my holdings on this type of board.

i think leading can be good because people dont know what we are leading as we dont have to do it always. but we dont really get bluff raised on the flop that much. which is actually an arguement for me wanting to lead like KTss and just get monies from the fish and make the hand really easy to play. U can even maybe eventually turn it into a bluff vs some regs if they call but alas i dont know that its the best line with KT or with the nuts in this spot. Have to think more about it. I disagree people just cbet this board 90+% here, i know i dont but maybe i should. Because i think KT can eventually be turned into a bluff against some regs i think we are never getting raised on this board by the reg almost ever. Which makes it pretty silly to lead ATs imo as checkraise river will get called a decent amount (tho most of the time when the boards paired a checkcall will probably be better).

im feeling extra ballsy giving real thought processes now that i only play on a smurf account and dont think ill get exploited ^^

for balance not having a checkraising range on this board until the river is a pretty good way to play the hand vs regs but theres exceptions. its pretty cool to checkcall this flop btw as the fish prob has like 10%+ checkraise on this flop. they get silly with like KTo with no diamond a good amount.

this is an actual interesting thread for once

i really like song's posts and agree that most regs cbet a ton here in the CO's spot. however, i think c/c > lead > c/r for reasons doomer stated but it seems really close. also, i never really fold this pre either like tom but maybe i should start to now that nolan said so

--- Nuked ---

wheeeeeeee! thread resurrection!

as for the hand...how has no one touched on the fact that the turn sizing is bad? he has coldcalled you, clearly is not drawing to the nut flush and clearly has a good hand, yet you bet...1/2 pot!? 256 on the turn and the river is an easy shove. also i agree leading is better than c/r or c/c with a fish in the bb, but since we lucked out with a little fishie in the middle we should take advantage and bomb turn.

On May 17 2012 00:39 n0rthf4ce wrote: wheeeeeeee! thread resurrection! as for the hand...how has no one touched on the fact that the turn sizing is bad? he has coldcalled you, clearly is not drawing to the nut flush and clearly has a good hand, yet you bet...1/2 pot!? 256 on the turn and the river is an easy shove. also i agree leading is better than c/r or c/c with a fish in the bb, but since we lucked out with a little fishie in the middle we should take advantage and bomb turn.

he could go a little bigger but u gotta atleast make it look like its possible ur bluff shoving river. not have like half pot lol

On May 18 2012 16:02 DooMeR wrote: Show nested quote + On May 17 2012 00:39 n0rthf4ce wrote: wheeeeeeee! thread resurrection! as for the hand...how has no one touched on the fact that the turn sizing is bad? he has coldcalled you, clearly is not drawing to the nut flush and clearly has a good hand, yet you bet...1/2 pot!? 256 on the turn and the river is an easy shove. also i agree leading is better than c/r or c/c with a fish in the bb, but since we lucked out with a little fishie in the middle we should take advantage and bomb turn. he could go a little bigger but u gotta atleast make it look like its possible ur bluff shoving river. not have like half pot lol

calculate it. 256 is the perfect turn sizing.

also once we get cold-called it should be pretty obvious we are not bluffing the turn when we bet. we need to bet big to get value.

Seems incredibly better for our range to c/c flop and turn with everything then to occasionally turn stuff into bluffs on the river as long as they don't know we r doing it. I'm just talking about general gameplan when reg vs reg though.