annoying 3bet spot

Villain is a pretty good aggro reg with a 3bet of 10. I was really torn between all options on this flop. I think there's a good argument for just folding since I'm going to hate almost any turn card, and I think villain is good enough to not cbet his overcard air sometimes.

If you think call is best give me a turn plan.

Submitted by : NMcNasty

PokerStars Game #41349128003: Holdem No Limit ($5/$10 USD) - 2010/03/18 14:44:38 ET
Table Ibarruri 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ($1093.05 in chips)
Seat 4: lobojiji ($1467 in chips)
Seat 8: jersey716 ($1306 in chips)
Seat 9: X_Asian1 ($1434 in chips)
jersey716: posts small blind $5
X_Asian1: posts big blind $10

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
Hero: raises $20 to $30
lobojiji: folds
jersey716: raises $80 to $110
X_Asian1: folds
Hero: calls $80

Flop (Pot : $230.00)

   
jersey716: bets $140

lol really, jersey716 a good reg? i have him labeled as a pretty big fish
my stats on him are 22.3/13.6/6.1 3bet% over 7.2k hands, he doesn't really 3bet UTG raises light, not from what i've seen at least.
i'd just fold pre, as played id fold flop too, only card you'd be happy about is an A really, and that prob kills ur action vs his entire range excluding AA and possibly AK

he's pretty stationy too so even if scare cards like T, J, diamonds fall on turn or riv i don't think hes gunna fold

meh i guess i just contradicted what i said, but i'm basically trying to say, he won't fold his overpairs on scare cards like a T, J, or diamonds, but he's probably gunna get passive if an A falls and he has KK, or QQ

fold flop its not actually a good flop for u and most villans wont be betting air on this flop too often at all. and like u said u have no playability at all past the flop really. i dont see a reason to continue in the hand and tbh i think we have better hands to defend against 3bets in our range most of the time preflop unless your incredibly loose. as always i wanna see what other people have to say about it though

jersey716 sucks. there's really no other option then to fold. he's rarely betting air here and he's most likely going to have a hand he's barreling on a blank turn. id rather 4bet or fold pre

dont rly like pf even tho it is 4handed. if ur gonna call pf it has to be a dynamic of wide range vs wide range, or wide range vs narrow predictable range and predictable lines on certain board textures. either way ur gonna have to at least call this flop if ur calling A8cc pf imo.

worded that badly. blah, whatever, just fold pf

Yeah calling preflop sounds really bad :/

I'd rather call with a suited connector or whatever hand that's not dominated all the time by his 3betting range. On this flop I probably peel one off and fold the turn unless I can make a play at it. If a T/6/J/d comes I can definitely see myself 2barreling all-in on turn/river if he doesn't bet himself.

Yea this hand wont play well postflop unless its an extreme case like peachy said, in which you either snap fold or raise and get it in on the flop imo.

dunno if it has to be an extreme case, A8s is the middle of my range and given that I have position I should be able to extract profit somehow from someone raising around what I would guess to be 15% of the time in this spot. Also 4 betting pre wasn't an option vs this player I should have mentioned that originally.

but yeah seems a pretty strong consensus to fold pre, and I definitely felt that way immediately after the hand played out.

Can you elaborate on why 4 betting pre isnt an option vs this player? Or I guess alternatively, why calling is superior than 4 betting

and Q to twisted: you only make a play on turn and river if villain doesnt fire a 2nd bullet?

why isn't it an optioin? is he just jamming over them tons? or flatting?

On March 19 2010 16:32 DooMeR wrote: why isn't it an optioin? is he just jamming over them tons? or flatting?

yeah

which one is it lol. if hes fighting back that hard vs 4bets id imagine thats actually a huge leak thats in some ways easier to exploit than his 3betting

On March 19 2010 17:19 DooMeR wrote: which one is it lol. if hes fighting back that hard vs 4bets id imagine thats actually a huge leak thats in some ways easier to exploit than his 3betting

its both, but he's not fighting back that hard, just enough to make a 4bet bluff bad.

On March 19 2010 15:23 gawdawaful wrote: and Q to twisted: you only make a play on turn and river if villain doesnt fire a 2nd bullet?

Seems obvious .

If he does have a jack and a ten pops on the turn he's not gonna check it.

errr I meant to ask, if you make a play only on those turns + if he checks it
If its a blank turn, say a black deuce and its checked, is this a spot where you'd make a move as well?

Nah, probably take it to showdown.

Whole idea is that when he checks turn I can probably make him fold a better hand. If he has a worse hand he'll fold it and I'll be happy about it because if he does have like KQ he'll have decent equity in the pot if a T turn comes. They probably won't rebluff much on dangerous turns.

Even vs Pretty Light 3-Bettor A8s isnt a hand i would call with here...opt to fold or raise.
As Played....it depends on what kind of 3-bet range he has(Polarized or not) vs Polarized C/F vs uPolarized C/C or C/R