AK pf 200bb vs regs

So they are both good tricky players, I kinda feel I have to fold but I dont feel good about it, what is your line here ¿?

Submitted by : EvilSky

PokerStars Game #29882488371: Holdem No Limit ($5/$10) - 2009/06/28 15:55:03 ET
Table Retsina II 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: TheFan83 ($2074.75 in chips)
Seat 2: foxfox1 ($4208 in chips)
Seat 3: 0Human0 ($2048.90 in chips)
Seat 4: pocktnizzles ($1000 in chips)
Seat 5: HardCory ($1000 in chips)
Seat 6: Hero ($2158 in chips)
foxfox1: posts small blind $5
0Human0: posts big blind $10

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
pocktnizzles: folds
HardCory: folds
Hero: raises $20 to $30
TheFan83: raises $60 to $90
foxfox1: folds
0Human0: raises $190 to $280
Hero:¿?

i dont think it worth to fight back with 30$ invested in the pot vs 2 good regs 200BB deep
so i just fold and dont care about it

you don't "invest" in pots, but yea human is cold-bettin oop 2bi deep and if he isn't terribly out of line i don't mind a fold

I usually just fold here and save myself the headache unless the 4bettor is really out of line.

both of these guys can get pretty out of line at times

i dont think folding is the right play

******

5-bet

type "LOL" followed by some censored word in chat

and then 5bet to 670 and call shove

You guys don't think calling is an option?
i guess thefan can call behind alot this deep which makes flop tough to play.

I can't remember the stats of Human but if he's similar to the fan this looks like a 5 bet, & get it in.

Fan is pretty solid, Human is brain damaged... so 5b > folding but folding can't be bad

i'd rather fold here than 5bet/call shove

you call and flop comes 244 do u call allin? no. fold.

On June 29 2009 12:04 Fayth wrote: i'd rather fold here than 5bet/call shove

u clearly do not know 0human0

5bet to 600$, fold to shove.

goddam trolls lol , anyway I guess this is a stalemate so its fine either way.

If you fold AK here then you are folding QQ too? So we are only playing KK+? That doesn't seem right.

With this being CO vs BU vs BB and with the reads that you gave... I'm not interested in folding this.

On June 30 2009 04:37 EvilSky wrote: goddam trolls lol , anyway I guess this is a stalemate so its fine either way.

I was semi-serious, but it MAY be something to consider. You would be risking 570$ to win 410$ so they have to fold 58% of the time. AK theoretically is THE best hand to turn into a bluff vs a range of {AA,KK,air}, because of blockers. I don't know, I just thought it would be fun to put something outside the box out there.

On June 30 2009 05:30 Smuft wrote: If you fold AK here then you are folding QQ too? So we are only playing KK+? That doesn't seem right.

It 'doesn't seem right', because the way we have been taught to play NLHE is to never get too concerned pre-flop when having a hand as strong as QQ, because of the aggressive nature of the games and the ever-existing possibility that our opponent is doing something stupid. Unfortunately it leads to closed-minded discussions when faced with spots like these. Even with players who are better at this game than me.

Do you think on average a good reg will want to cold 4bet -> stack off w/ {AK,QQ} for 200bb? I don't think so (as evidenced by EvilSky's hesitancy to play a hand as strong as AK here). I think usually his range consists of {air,AA,KK}. He WILL be bluffing here a decent amount, because of the fact it looks so strong.

However if we shove and only get called by KK+ our opponents need to be folding over THREE times as often as they hold KK+. That's possible, but it's a bold assumption.

But tomson if 5b bluffing here w AK is good isnt flatting better ?

I'm not saying 5b bluffing is good, it's just an idea I throwed out there.

Calling w/ AK here might be a viable option, but is very difficult against a range of {AA,KK,air}.

- reverse implied odds against KK+ (this forces you to call one street when you hit a K and then fold, which sucks)
- air might bluff you out (cbet etc.)
- air, which has decent equity against a hand like AK, will go to showdown a lot, because you will be afraid to take stabs at boards you missed