PLO is this reasonable?

Submitted by : Jelle

PokerStars Game #24852595206: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2009/02/12 13:27:11 CET [2009/02/12 7:27:11 ET]
Table Nolli 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: TigerFM ($134.50 in chips)
Seat 2: bargi bargeo ($47.30 in chips)
Seat 3: PTAction ($105.75 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($100 in chips)
Seat 5: aty79 ($46.85 in chips)
Seat 6: sporic13 ($64.25 in chips)
aty79: posts small blind $0.50
sporic13: posts big blind $1

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Hero
TigerFM: folds
bargi bargeo: folds
PTAction: raises $2.50 to $3.50
Hero: raises $6.50 to $10
aty79: folds
sporic13: folds
PTAction: raises $21.50 to $31.50
Hero: calls $21.50

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $64.50)

   
PTAction: bets $61.50
Hero: raises $7 to $68.50 and is all-in
PTAction: calls $7

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $201.50)

   

River (Pot : $201.50)

   

Showdown
PTAction: shows (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
Hero: shows (a full house, Kings full of Sevens)
Hero collected $198.50 from pot

Summary
Total pot $201.50 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: TigerFM folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 2: bargi bargeo folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 3: PTAction showed and lost with two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 4: Hero (button) showed and won ($198.50) with a full house, Kings full of Sevens
Seat 5: aty79 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: sporic13 (big blind) folded before Flop

no reads no stats 20th hand of session

never fold DS AKKJ unless villain has a good AAxx 100%

thx

is it reasonable to RR this small with all my reraising hands? could i go even smaller?

This is pretty standard for me. The fact that u have an A in ur hand diminishes the odds of villan having the AAxx. So i would 3bet on every spot. Anyway u got 4bet but ur hand easly has 2 to 1 odds on AAxx, plus u have position on him. Most people shove AAxx on anygiven texture after 4beting it so u have even more implied odds. IMO u played it just fine.

its more reasonable to shove pf

haha i know i use that word too often but i dont really know how else to put it

you like shoving? to avoid getting shut out on the flop then I guess? hmmm that seems hard to understand for me

or do you mean that it's unrealistic to assume people always have AAxx so I should just shove to get value from everything else while not losing much if he does have AAxx?

Do you really get 4bet here so light that much that it's reasonable to shove against an unknown? Especially when it's 2way?

I think u should shove 4 bet OOP. I think if u have position, since the odds are so even, its best to call the flop cause if the boards pairs and he shoves, u are sving half ur stak.Thats the reason why i think 3betin AAxx should never be bet big OOP cause u get lame odds. i think its a sucker bet

On February 12 2009 10:50 nolan wrote: its more reasonable to shove pf

interesting.

yeah, because youre OOP. your hand will do better if you can see 5 cards not 3.

Could you please reason that in more detail?

I understand that we don't want to fold our monster hand, but without any reads this is AA 99.999% of time. Why is shoving preflop that much better than calling in position and shipping it in on everything but the worst possible flops? (he has potsized bet left and he will shove it on any flop.) I want to understand the logic behind it.

he probably disagrees with either or both of your assumptions (that he will always have AAxx and that he will always get it in when we check flop)

also i was in position in this hand but i enjoy the discussion so don't let that stop you

Try and look at it in this way. U should never call a reraise of ur KKxx if u are going to be OOP the rest of the hand. Unless u are willing to repop and shove the rest of ur chips preflop(say vilain is super aggro and he 3bets us a lot). Cause if we look at the odds, not that many flops favor KKxx. And i think that at least 4/5 times vilian is going to shove if its checked to him. If we get reraised with KKxx and get to have positon on the flop, i think its a super sweet spot to stack him, cause calling the 3bet on the flop its not EV- so, now that the pot is 40-50BB, we can then decide if we want to gamble big with the edge.

Killaherni, you should be asking questions instead of answering them. Especially questions pointed at others. Try to learn and absorb information instead of pushing your own flawed logic forward.
PS. We are in position here.

Hello, this is really interesting spot.
1) I made some calculating and it seems like we have 42% with on flop QTx with no redraw, 44% on spade or diamond draw with no redraw, 87 % with set of kings and the last flop on which we can get it in is in my opinion JJx, but thats all. I dont know how often will these flops came...dont know if this can be really profitable ?!
2)We can maybe bluff frontbet if OOP on heavy drawy boards like 89T and take the pot down but I cant see this really good too
3)What we do if A hit the board? it seems that he mb made 4bet with some king of speculative hand such as JT98ds and we can take a risk? or it is an easy fold? remeber that we have an ace in our hand