Nl25 AJ River Line

Villain runs 16/12/2.5. Hasn't shown anything down but has taken a few pots with c-bets and 3 bets. Hasn't cold called yet. I run 16/13/3.5. We have no history. How do you like my line up to river? Should I call river?

Submitted by : Sicks Macks

Full Tilt Poker Game #9310170028: Table St Jude (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:42:25 ET - 2008/12/03
Seat 1: cherokeewoman ($19.30)
Seat 2: Villain ($26.10)
Seat 3: Flint_00 ($23.10)
Seat 4: kerbak ($14.30)
Seat 5: Diesel4935 ($24.15)
Seat 6: Hero ($26.90)
Flint_00 posts the small blind of $0.10
kerbak posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #2

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
Diesel4935 folds
Hero raises to $0.85
cherokeewoman folds
Villain calls $0.85
Flint_00 folds
kerbak folds

Flop (Pot : $2.05)

   
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero bets $1.50
Villain raises to $5
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero calls $3.50

Turn (Pot : $12.05)

   
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero checks
Villain checks

River (Pot : $12.05)

   
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero bets $6.50
Villain raises to $20.25, and is all in

I don't like stacking off with TPTK.
I think you are beat here.

I honestly believe your good here, I'm gonna go and guess the guy had a busted FD.

Maybe 89dd?

I call because it looks so much like a busted flush draw.

Wait, 89d seems possible even tho the turn check doesn't make sense if he had this. T_T

Man I'm totally clueless aka shouldn't be giving advice.

why are u calling flop if u think ur hand is not good?

On December 04 2008 00:00 vlseph wrote: I don't like stacking off with TPTK. I think you are beat here.

i do when TPTK crushes villains range

This is much closer than I thought.
How does this range look?

Board: 7d Jd 3h Th 6s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.857% 42.86% 00.00% 6 0.00 { AhJs }
Hand 1: 57.143% 57.14% 00.00% 8 0.00 { 77, 33, AdTd, Ad3d, KdQd, Td9d, 9d8d, 6d5d, 5d4d, 4d3d }

This assumes he shoves missed FDs 100% of the time, but it doesn't include worse Jx that he can be shipping (those may even out).

I guess he can have slowplayed KK, AA too

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

23 games 0.005 secs 4,600 games/sec

Board: 7d Jd 3h Th 6s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 26.087% 26.09% 00.00% 6 0.00 { AhJs }
Hand 1: 73.913% 73.91% 00.00% 17 0.00 { KK+, 77, 33, AdTd, Ad3d, KdQd, Td9d, 9d8d, 6d5d, 5d4d, 4d3d }

Saw the results. I messed up w/ 89dd because he had it on the turn then. I figured he rivered it.

Alright, I'm kind of surprised everyone is OK with the river bet:

I was actually the villain in this hand, I thought I was about to stack an overpair or set, and was stunned when he called it off with just TPTK. I guess it's not that bad because I take this line with busted FD's some of the time, but if I'm villain I really prefer c/c to b/c, because he's essentially bluffcatching after he calls the flop raise, right?

Submitted by : Sicks Macks

Full Tilt Poker Game #9310170028: Table St Jude (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:42:25 ET - 2008/12/03
Seat 1: cherokeewoman ($19.30)
Seat 2: Villain ($26.10)
Seat 3: Flint_00 ($23.10)
Seat 4: kerbak ($14.30)
Seat 5: Diesel4935 ($24.15)
Seat 6: Hero ($26.90)
Flint_00 posts the small blind of $0.10
kerbak posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #2

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
Diesel4935 folds
Hero raises to $0.85
cherokeewoman folds
Villain calls $0.85
Flint_00 folds
kerbak folds

Flop (Pot : $2.05)

   
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero bets $1.50
Villain raises to $5
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero calls $3.50

Turn (Pot : $12.05)

   
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero checks
Villain checks

River (Pot : $12.05)

   
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero bets $6.50
Villain raises to $20.25, and is all in
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero calls $13.75

Showdown
Villain shows a straight, Seven high
Hero mucks
Villain wins the pot ($49.95) with a straight, Seven high
Hero adds $24.20

Summary
Total pot $52.55 | Rake $2.60
Board:
Seat 1: cherokeewoman didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Villain (button) showed and won ($49.95) with a straight, Seven high
Seat 3: Flint_00 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: kerbak (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Diesel4935 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Hero mucked - a pair of Jacks

Sorry to switch this hand around, but the guy seemed like a reg and this line seems insane to me. I don't like calling flop out of position very much, and I hate betting river. Then again I lay down TPTK too much so I was curious what others thought. Would love to hear more on this if anyone has thoughts.

The only things raising him on this flop that beat him are sets and some overpairs, and with this drawy a board those hands should never check back the turn. I'd call in his spot too because your hand looks 100% like diamonds, and you have almost the only diamond hand that gets to the river this way and beats him (I guess 98dd could check back the turn as well). The half pot bet could also have helped induce a bluff from a missed draw.

On December 04 2008 01:27 rgfdxm wrote: The only things raising him on this flop that beat him are sets and some overpairs, and with this drawy a board those hands should never check back the turn. I'd call in his spot too because your hand looks 100% like diamonds, and you have almost the only diamond hand that gets to the river this way and beats him (I guess 98dd could check back the turn as well). The half pot bet could also have helped induce a bluff from a missed draw.

You don't think c/c accomplishes the same thing for cheaper for the times I do have 54dd, 98dd, or KK+ that pot controlled?

Why would KK+ pot control here? I think from his point of view, you could show up with QQ+ but nowhere near 100% of the time would you play them this way. It should be pretty rare, actually, seeing as you'd have to not 3bet preflop and then decide to check back on a drawy board on the turn. Maybe he should c/c, since it's unlikely you would raise the flop with Jx so there's not much a bet will get value from. But betting small like this won't discourage people from bluffing, in my experience.

he called with aj cause you either have 89dd, 45dd or a whiff

as far as his river vbet vs you; probably bad cause your both tight with very polarized ranges and most of its value comes from a bluffraise over.

Hand 1: 57.143% 57.14% 00.00% 8 0.00 { 77, 33, AdTd, Ad3d, KdQd, Td9d, 9d8d, 6d5d, 5d4d, 4d3d }


You aren't bluffshoving a lot of these hands imo

you aren't going to have a set here

KQdd bets turn

AdTd you probably show down

I imagine his thoughts on the river were that he figures to be ahead most of the time (corrrect assumption). He goes for a thin vbet vs pair + draw hands and apparently even thought that if you whiffed you could bluffraise over a halfpot bet

If you believe this guy is somewhat solid then I like check calling the river, this gives him an opportunity to bluff missed diamonds and you aren't hanging yourself for a buyin if he happens to be ahead, or hit some random straight like he did.

You have to really ask yourself what you are going to get value out of if you bet here? I mean he's basically representing either air, a draw, or set/two pair hands with his flop raise if he's solid.


However, if you think the guy is a fish or somewhat weak then you definitely have to bet/call river as played. Actually if he's a fish I guess the mistake would be not to get the money in on the flop or turn.

On December 04 2008 03:14 DONKEYLUVIN wrote: If you believe this guy is somewhat solid then I like check calling the river, this gives him an opportunity to bluff missed diamonds and you aren't hanging yourself for a buyin if he happens to be ahead, or hit some random straight like he did. You have to really ask yourself what you are going to get value out of if you bet here? I mean he's basically representing either air, a draw, or set/two pair hands with his flop raise if he's solid. However, if you think the guy is a fish or somewhat weak then you definitely have to bet/call river as played. Actually if he's a fish I guess the mistake would be not to get the money in on the flop or turn.

don't think you read the thread at all