I try to value bet river but get shoved on....

I just played this hand last night and it is a total WTF hand to me. I don't have hand history because it was on UB but I can remember the hand vividly. For those of you who can't give advice with out a hand converter... well, go hump a goat lol jkjk.

Stakes: 2/4 NL holdem 6max $800 buyin DEEP

Alrighty, UTG SOlid Reg sitting with 800 raises to $14 and it folds to me on the BB with AQ and I flat call, covering his stack.

Flop K Q 5 rainbow

I check, Villian C-bets $20 I call pot now $66

Turn is blank 2, I check he bets $52. I call? I think he might be double barreling and I didn't want to fold AQ lol. pot now $170

River Q!!!! YAHOOOOO!!!!! I think to myself he might have AA or AK so I gotta value his ass. BET $155 with like 600 behind. He shoves... FML! He cant expect me to fold if i have a queen right? Hes basically saying I don't care if u got Q I got KK KQ or 55.

Do you guys valuebet/fold here just like I do? Does anyone EVER bluff in his spot??

i woulda fold turn if he truly is a "solid reg"

river yes i valuebet all day
and yeah i'd fold he prolly has no worse than aq

if he's super sick he could be bluffing, but it's unlikely
the way u play totally looks like u have qx or draw

Submitted by : gororokgororok

PokerStars Game #22535553846: Hold'em No Limit ($2.00/$4.00) - 2008/12/01 16:17:05 ET
Table 'Grogler V' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: NOOB1 ($1000 in chips)
Seat 2: NOOB2 ($2000 in chips)
Seat 3: SOLID UTG REG ($800 in chips)
Seat 4: NOOB3 ($3000 in chips)
Seat 5: JohnnyBologna ($800 in chips)
NOOB3: posts small blind $2
JohnnyBologna : posts big blind $4

Holecards
Dealt to JohnnyBologna
UTG SOLID REG: raises $10 to $14
NOOB: folds
NOOB2: folds
NOOB3: folds
JohnnyBologna : calls $10

Flop (Pot : $30.00)

   
JohnnyBologna : checks
UTG SOLID REG: bets $20
JohnnyBologna : calls $20
*** TURN ***
JohnnyBologna : checks
UTG SOLID REG: bets $56
JohnnyBologna : calls $56
*** RIVER ***
JohnnyBologna : bets $155
UTG SOLID REG: SHOVES GG DONK

River Q!!!! YAHOOOOO!!!!! I think to myself he might have AA or AK so I gotta value his ass.

this is a *****ing terrible thought process, if hes a good storng regular hes betting these hands on the river, based on how you played the hand, you have absolutley no read on this player + no sence of position and its near impossible to offer advice since this hand is ridiciously read dependant

I check raise river BTW, only hand(s) hes betting turn with that hes not value betting river that most players open UTG would be like KTs/KJs
As played who the ***** knows its just a random guessing game, can he have QJ QT who knows

I'm not a fan of donking the river either fwiw, but I dunno if I just c/c or c/r river. I guess it depends on image, how aggro I've been and how insane he thinks I am. I think c/r is probably better, but it's somewhat close.

I don't think CR is much better than betting out large(like pot sizeish)
if it is better at all

On December 01 2008 15:22 gororokgororok wrote: Submitted by : gororokgororok PokerStars Game #22535553846: Hold'em No Limit ($2.00/$4.00) - 2008/12/01 16:17:05 ET Table 'Grogler V' 6-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: NOOB1 ($1000 in chips) Seat 2: NOOB2 ($2000 in chips) Seat 3: SOLID UTG REG ($800 in chips) Seat 4: NOOB3 ($3000 in chips) Seat 5: JohnnyBologna ($800 in chips) NOOB3: posts small blind $2 JohnnyBologna : posts big blind $4 Holecards Dealt to JohnnyBologna UTG SOLID REG: raises $10 to $14 NOOB: folds NOOB2: folds NOOB3: folds JohnnyBologna : calls $10 Flop (Pot : $30.00)     JohnnyBologna : checks UTG SOLID REG: bets $20 JohnnyBologna : calls $20 *** TURN *** JohnnyBologna : checks UTG SOLID REG: bets $56 JohnnyBologna : calls $56 *** RIVER *** JohnnyBologna : bets $155 UTG SOLID REG: SHOVES GG DONK

lol thx gororok.

now the more i think about it i shoulda check called river. Tom is right he is valueing AA AK most of the time lol unless he read my soul and put me on a Q.
And yea I didnt have much of a read on him besides he was on both my tables and seemed pretty solid from the last few orbits we played. I guess thats why I was all confizzled on river.

yeah definately fold river as played.

You've basically said to him "I played a queen badly and made it on the river"

And he said "I don't care I got you beat/I know you're gonna fold it"

And people don't expect you to fold a queen here so it's gotta be the former.

When you lead in to him on the river the top end of his range is AA AK and KK KQ QQ 55 (22 mayb). And its possible that he could have a missed draw of some kidn depending on his frequencies. However as you know we can pretty much take out most of the AA and AK from his range because he's not shoving those into you for value (or for bluff right?). I'm imaging that most of the time he'd check back QJ and QT on the turn and even if he didn't and was betting to defend his hand from draws i'd be surprised for him to shove them on the river. So the question is how often does he barrel down hands like AT T9s etc, and then how often does he turn those hands into a bluff on the river, and the answer is probably very low.

So yes a call here on the river is almost certainly -eV if your opponent is indeed a solid reg utg. (and we know at least that he's utg and probably a reg ^_^).

The lead out on the rivers ok but fold to the allin

A check call on the rivers ok

And image and opponent depending a c/r could be ok if you have a bluff happy image but you really have to be in the zone for that shizzle so from the way you discussed the pokers I really wouldn't recommend it (not saying you're not good, I don't know you just that you don't seem to be one of those nutters who people are gonna snap fist pump call you with AK AA here for a c/r allin) Sometimes people vbet this river with the AA AK not expecting to get called by a worse hand very often but looking for the missed draws c/rai but no flush draw on the flop just some gutshots and one up down which you're likely to peel 1 and not 2 with oop if at all against his utg raising range.

Hope this was some use because I know its pretty jumbled

Also try to think about what your bet on the river looks like because if he's an aggressive laggy reg (which it doesn't seem like he is) he might interpret a river bet as "ooh a relatively weak king trying to get value/not call a huge bet on the river wee i'll bluff him off of his hand"

But your bet doesn't look like that, your bet looks like a queen or a complete stone cold bluff (not so much but could be) because its basically pot size and if you weren't happy calling a big bet with your 'king' why make a big bet yourself like this. So yeah its unlikely he's bluffing the river here.

what? if i check, i never just c/c this. unless i have some great read.

On December 02 2008 10:09 KeyleK_uk wrote: When you lead in to him on the river the top end of his range is AA AK and KK KQ QQ 55 (22 mayb).

If he has QQ I shoot the gun under the table

it depends on if u can have that that or that, based on that or that and what he thinks based on that, or maybe that.

On December 02 2008 11:13 sawseech wrote: it depends on if u can have that that or that, based on that or that and what he thinks based on that, or maybe that.

right

On December 02 2008 11:11 lebowski wrote: Show nested quote + On December 02 2008 10:09 KeyleK_uk wrote: When you lead in to him on the river the top end of his range is AA AK and KK KQ QQ 55 (22 mayb). If he has QQ I shoot the gun under the table

Really? I wouldn't shoot someone for cheating me out of 800 bucks, especially considering it'd be a dead hand.