defending your bring-in in razz

I have 24Q, someone raises with an ace showing and it folds back to me, am I supposed to call? Phil Helmuth says I should but he's a retard...

You have to give me more information about your question. What are the antes/bring in, how m any players are there, what cards are dead, etc. But most of the scenario's you could give me, hellmuth is wrong.

phil hellmuth is probably in games where anyone who has an ace showing is raising regardless of the hole cards

if you dont raise an ace against a queen, then you are terrible. It doesnt really matter if he is raising your queen 100% of the time, its usually a fold.

On November 25 2008 00:34 KrappyKonnect wrote: if you dont raise an ace against a queen, then you are terrible. It doesnt really matter if he is raising your queen 100% of the time, its usually a fold.

what, do you just fill in all the blanks in your head or something?

u talk about raising an ace against a queen like the game is HU when the original poster (who did a shitty job describing the situation) already said that there were other players who folded.

how am i talking like the game is heads up. The hand is heads up. Im seriously confused. What are you talking about?

24Q is a pretty good hand to call imo oO
I don't care about his ace because it means nothing, he could have like KQA or something, he's just trying to toy with your mind showing he has a good card.
He has an ace, you have a Q, Almost everybody would raise you by this logic you know.
But hey, i'm a newb what do i know...

On November 25 2008 01:36 KrappyKonnect wrote: how am i talking like the game is heads up. The hand is heads up. Im seriously confused. What are you talking about?

On November 24 2008 22:13 WhenICanIWill wrote: I have 24Q, someone raises with an ace showing and it folds back to me, am I supposed to call? Phil Helmuth says I should but he's a retard...

in what way does this describe a game that is heads up?

depends on where he is opening from and what he is opening into and previous reads on the player. without a read its an easy fold.

sorry, should have explained better.
8 handed, i bring in, half the tables folds, guy with ace showing raises, it folds to me. .10 antes, bring in was .50, so it's 50 for me to call 1.80. some of the guys behind him had low cards showing so he probably has a decent hand.

if it's still wrong to call, does it become correct to call if one or two others call?

oh, I understand, my bad. Yeah this is a snap fold.

supersupersuper easy fold. 99% of the time its a snapfold with A,2,paint vs any x,x,8 or lower. 1% its marginal. generally just always fold.

if more people call, you should be LESS likely to play your marginal hand.

if it folds around to xxA, who is raising 100% into 2 players, holding an xx8, and you (bringin) with A2T, here are options:

xxA raises, xx8 calls. you should fold exactly 100% of the time. even if your hand is super live, and the ace and 8 are both fish. even if the antes are huge. always fold. way too many things go wrong. read sklansky on razz for more info on this situation and why its terrrrrrible to play marginal hands in multiway pots.

next situation: xxA raises, xx8 folds. you can call MUCH more often than the previous situation. i call like 90% (the 10% i fold is when my hand is dead, or opponent is better than me or w/e). wheel,wheel,T is the cutoff point. wheel,wheel J is generally a fold. 7,8,T is generally a fold. A,9,T is always a fold.

this all assumes you play very well on 4th and 5th street. if you aren't very good on 4th and 5th, you should play even tighter on 3rd street.

KKA vs Q is 100% raise. The correct play with A2Q vs someone who raises KKA into your Q, is 99% fold (you would have to be at full table, huge ante, live cards, very strong 4th/5th player, etc to justify a call, and it would be marginal)

ok great, thanks. i heard that helmuth's section on razz in his book mirrored sklansky on razz but i guess i heard wrong.

wired and alex are right its a fold.

I don't see how this is ever a raise with a Q vs A up and I doubt it's ever a call as well. There are way more hands that beat you then you are beating, you have to catch good AND he has to catch bad on 4th, and I doubt at this point the price you are getting could justify continuing with the hand at all anyway imo.