100NL - TPTK + NFD on mono flop

No real history with the villain prior to this hand and I had just joined the table. I'm thinking that the river should be a fold. If you look at his line it does seem like he has a flush with the c/minraise and the strong bets on the turn+river. He isn't c/minraising a set here and I think he will play AK stronger too. I guess shipping it on flop is bad since I have no FE here and my odds aren't too good. I think this is fine as played but I have to fold the river? Thoughts?

Submitted by : lazymej

PokerStars Game #22283297377: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/11/23 0:44:54 ET
Table 'Klytaemnestra' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Micaroni ($335.70 in chips)
Seat 2: swan20 ($30.15 in chips)
Seat 3: JackMehofff ($100 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($100 in chips)
Seat 5: Minto4life ($112.85 in chips)
Seat 6: Tower40 ($91.40 in chips)
swan20: posts small blind $0.50
JackMehofff: posts big blind $1

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Hero
Hero : raises $3 to $4
Minto4life: folds
Tower40: folds
Micaroni: folds
swan20: folds
JackMehofff: calls $3

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $8.50)

   
JackMehofff: checks
Hero : bets $5
JackMehofff: raises $5 to $10
Hero : calls $5

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $28.50)

   
JackMehofff: bets $21
Hero : calls $21

River (Pot : $70.50)

   
JackMehofff: bets $65 and is all-in
Hero : calls $65 and is all-in

Showdown
JackMehofff: shows (a flush, Ace high)
Hero : mucks hand
JackMehofff collected $197.50 from pot

Summary
Total pot $200.50 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: Micaroni (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: swan20 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: JackMehofff (big blind) showed and won ($197.50) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 4: Hero mucked
Seat 5: Minto4life folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Tower40 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

bump

look to get it in on the flop or turn

Raise flop, if you don't raise flop, raise turn. God this tilted me just reading your hh, awful.

don't reraise flop.

don't raise turn.

you played it fine but vs many opponents im folding river

On November 23 2008 17:53 ikc5 wrote: Raise flop, if you don't raise flop, raise turn. God this tilted me just reading your hh, awful.

you're the one that's awful, with your terrible advice

what the hell, criticizing his play when your advice is horrible

dunno why you guys are hellbent on shoving this flop when you are behind his calling / shoving range on flop vs this unknown

I think you played it right and i would probably fold the river

Flop isn't as clear cut as you guys are putting it imo. This line is fine if you're folding to river jam. If you're calling river jam, meaning you think he doesnt have a flush (so instead he has some kind of Ace and our kicker is goot anyways), then you might as well get it in on flop because if a club comes, it'll kill your action.

also if you didnt raise flop obviously dont raise turn

Ok thanks that clears things up. Just wanted to know about the river specifically, my TPTK is rarely good here on this board vs the action. I don't know how I called that push.

On November 23 2008 20:22 gawdawaful wrote: Flop isn't as clear cut as you guys are putting it imo. This line is fine if you're folding to river jam. If you're calling river jam, meaning you think he doesnt have a flush (so instead he has some kind of Ace and our kicker is goot anyways), then you might as well get it in on flop because if a club comes, it'll kill your action.

i disagree with this too
maybe someone else who agrees will elaborate lol

I really like gawdawaful's logic against a vaguely skilled opponent, but I think the mincheckraise shows us that he isn't, so calling down allows him to spazzbluff away or overvalue a one pair hand in a situation where we have no fear of giving free cards. The only downside is the 30% of the time a club falls and kills our action against the aces in his range, but that exact situation is merely a small possibility within a subset of his range.

Also it seems that the logic behind calling flop implying folding river is a bit reliant on information gained after the flop.

agree with travis

you can get away from this on the river against many opponents